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It's something that I have always wondered do the IG and SM fight along side each other in battle on a regular basis? Given how small the SM armies are when compared to other armies of the 40K vurse it would lead me to think that at least a division or 2 of guard would be deployed with a division of SM just to hold places on the field SM have already cleared or even to support SM if they needed extra rifles somewhere.

You will rarely find a war that is just SM. Even the Babar war (also know as the SM war) had a sizable group of IG.

The forces used by the IoM depend on the scale of conflict.

- A small intrusion into imperial space may not get everyones attention.

- Something noticably dangerous and for example threathening a sector or a valuable base ( ie fleet bases of the navy, fortress worlds, forge worlds, ) may gain the undivided attention of multiple arms of the IoM.

- Crusades are usually a gathering of forces and the IoM is known for its multitude of contributors there.

So if we look at the organization who react to the Threat/call to arms , those may have "friends" and the Adeptus Astartes has worlds it recruits from and thus some interests there to defend. Maybe old pacts and favors are called or it is a site of importance to a chapters history and to assist is a question of honor. Plus imperial worlds may just release a distress call and anyone close enough may come.
Space Marines will fight alongside almost every formation the IoM can muster. The Imperial Guard is the most numerous part of the imperial military and therefore having fought alongside the IG is nothing special.

The historical split in the fluff is based on the Heresy, when commanders turned their whole contingent from his light.
The combined command of all elements was taken and organizations separated at the chain of command.
Nowadays the IG and the SM operate under a joined command of senior officers of both sides ( + anyone else throwing their lot in gets also a seat there ) if they act as a crusade or have to combine efforts in famous theatres of war ( like armageddon ).

The second split you see is for gaming purposes. Armies are kept separate since GW removed "allies" as a concept from their books.

Space Marines and the Imperial Guard may occasionally be found fighting side by side, especially in the huge battles where the Astartes deploy to assist the Guard in overcoming an entrenched enemy's defenses.

But regularly? No - their fighting doctrine is too difficult for that. Marines are shock troops relying a lot on speed and surprise to fully exert the physical impact their sudden appearance has on an enemy who didn't expect them. For as tough as Marines are, they aren't invincible, and they usually lack the numbers to survive a "bayonet charge" approach when facing a fully prepared line of troopers whose positions have been reinforced by heavy weapons.

With few exceptions, Marines show up, leave their mark and move on. They do not leave any places to hold as they are not a force that prefers defense over offense. Any places that get taken by an Imperial Guard regiment following in their wake get taken because the Guard wants them, not the other way around.

Many Marine Chapters are also notoriously independent and loathe co-ordinating their operations with an outside command structure, even another Marine Chapter - a manner occasionally made worse by a few Chapters of Space Marines actively disgusting "lesser" human beings.

The controversy at the Emperor's Deliverance Refugee Camp, where the Marines Malevolent bombarded the attacking Orks regardless of the fact their fire was taking a horrific toll on the refugees inside, has been described as "acceptable losses" by Captain Vinyard of the Marines Malevolent, but condemned as "ruthless inhumanity" by Colonel Destrier Celestine of the Armageddon Command Guard. This callous strategy, inimical to the Adeptus Ministorum stationed there, was later shown to be symptomatic of the Marines Malevolent's attitude to human life. Former residents of Hades Hive with broken families and shattered homes were treated like cattle by those supposedly protecting them. Reports of unprecedented beatings and pleas for aid ignored abound in the shanty towns surrounding Hades, and morale is low. Vinyard himself is on record as having spat at the feet of Colonel Celestine when he voiced his objections to the thousands of civilian deaths caused by the Marines Malevolent's modus operandi.
- excerpt from GW's Armageddon 3 campaign fluff, concerning the Marines Malevolent Chapter

Chapter Master Seth denied me any tactical counsel whatsoever. After nearly a century in leading my Sisters to war, occasionally alongside Marine Chapters, this treatment came as no surprise.
- excerpt from a report by Canoness Carmina, Armageddon 3, concerning the Flesh Tearers Chapter

Of course, there are also many groups of Marines who see the wisdom in co-operation with the Imperial Guard, especially as far as the Salamanders or the Mentors Chapter are concerned. Whilst still not deploying regularly with other human forces, when they do, their Chapter Masters may attend the war council set up by the Imperial Command to voice their suggestions or even defer to the strategy outlined by the appointed Warmaster.

Given that, for the most part, Guard regiments remain within a certain operational area (30.000 light years, iirc?) and the same would go for Space Marine Chapters (with the occasional exception for a particularly important battle or campaign), it stands to reason that there may be some positive relations. Especially concerning the Ultramarines, whose fiefdom includes worlds raising their own IG regiments.

The aforementioned separation between Marines and Guard is a very, if not the most important element as well. The Imperium generally doesn't like the idea of a second Heresy, so Guard regiments permanently operating under Astartes guidance are a no-go.

The basic problem here is that GW has never been able to reconcile their collective hardon for Marines with the scale of their universe. If we're talking fluff, there are (at most) one million loyalist Marines spread over many millions of worlds.

The chance of an Imperial Citizen (even a high ranking Guard officer) even seeing a marine during his life is approximate to you or I winning the lottery as Ed McMahon pulls up to your door with the big check.

Astares should be legendary, in the true sense of that term.

Of course, GW's marketing requires that Marines be absurdly common. Which, if you ask me, sort of undercuts their importance. But what do I know.

Plus, Marines would only be used for non-traditional strikes. There's no point to putting a high-value asset like an Astares on the line.

So, the answer (according to GW's stated universe-rules) should be "effectively, no, never" but the answer is (because GW never met a fluff it wouldn't overwrite for marketing) "yes, commonly".

If any chapter would, it would be the Salamanders. During Armageddon, they engaged in military and refugee convoy protection and rear guard action, all of with requires them to operate close with the other imperial units around them.

On Armageddon many marine Chapters aided IG Regiments in the defense of Hives against the Ork invasions.

Most notably, The Black Templars led by Grimaldus helped to defend Hive Helsrech. They worked very well together with the Guardsman by splitting up along the defensive line to make sure the Guard held.

Not on a regular basis, and only in the most critical battlefields/campaigns. Most battles the Guard and the Navy can win on their own. Only when things get 'hot' by 40k standards do more specialized troops get sent in: Astartes, Titans, Sisters, Skitarii, you name it. On Crusades they fight together, of course, but on most campaigns, no, the Guard/Navy and the Astartes prefer to fight their own battles by themselves.

There is sometimes a disdain for the common "Trooper" among the Astartes, who believe that they are the right and only ones to serve the Emperor. This just depends on the Astartes in question though, in DoW Avitus dislikes the Guardsmen calling them weaklings and fools. While Tartus commends the Guardsmen and calls them Battle Brothers for helping crush the Tyranid threat.

As Tartus said "We are all Brothers in Blood and Death".

EDIT: Typo!

The book Helsreach is a good example of SM, and titans, being deployed to help Guard when things are a bit over their head.

Alexzandvar wrote:There is sometimes a disdain for the common "Trooper" among the Astartes, who believe that they are the right and only ones to serve the Emperor. This just depends on the Astartes in question though, in DoW Avitus dislikes the Guardsmen calling them weaklings and fools. While Tartus commends the Guardsmen and calls them Battle Brothers for helping crush the Tyranid threat.

As Tartus said "We are all Brothers in Blood and Death".

EDIT: Typo!

Most Astartes do, even before the HH. The Salamanders are one exception, as are the Ultramarines. Before he fell, Magnus was noted to have great respect even for non-Astartes. Not all Chapters and Astartes disdain Imperial Guardsmen, especially if the Guardsmen in question prove themselves in battle. During the First Armageddon War, Lord Grimnar argued in favor of the Imperial Guardsmen, and even Avitus had a certain grudging respect for Guardsmen during Chaos Rising.

Space Marines and IG often fight together. An example being the second war for Armageddon.

I doubt a space marine chapter, as mighty as they are, could re-take an enemy planet all by themselves. They'd need the help of the Guard.

Actually they can, but they can't hold it, and they don't have the resources for prolonged mop-up operations.

Tadashi wrote:Actually they can, but they can't hold it, and they don't have the resources for prolonged mop-up operations.

Exactly, not to mention they value Strength and Honor above all else. Governor Alexander during the Kronus campaign was only badly wounded, and was patched up and sent back to Segmentum Command with full honors for showing his Military Prowess against the Emperors chosen. Most Astartes even if they don't regonize the value per say of Human Life, they do value Strength, Honor, and Tactical Ability.

Captain Thule commended Governor Alexander for following his orders to the end, even if it did mean going up against the Blood Ravens.

Tadashi wrote:Captain Thule commended Governor Alexander for following his orders to the end, even if it did mean going up against the Blood Ravens.

Exactly, while I am a large fan of the Imperial Guard, the canon ending was fun for everyone really.

I guess except for non-Imperial players! .

Too bad we couldn't get the Ethereal's corpse. The Blood Ravens' Mechanicum and Ordo Xenos contacts would have been pleased at such a find. Maybe we could have developed a bio-weapon of sorts if the Blood Ravens had captured the corpse...

Tadashi wrote:Too bad we couldn't get the Ethereal's corpse. The Blood Ravens' Mechanicum and Ordo Xenos contacts would have been pleased at such a find. Maybe we could have developed a bio-weapon of sorts if the Blood Ravens had captured the corpse...

In the Imperial Guard Victory in Soulstorm against the Tau it says, and with the IG being the winners of said campaign ,That they packed up a load of Tau weapons, and said visiting Ethereal off to Segmentum Command!

*cough* *cough* What am I saying? that's HERESY!

They do on a regular basis, really most SM operations involve Guard or PDF allies.

What's rare are when all 5 armed forces of the Imperium (IG, IN, SM, SoB, Collegia Titanica) all fight together.

(Picks up bowl of popcorn, sits in front of TV) Crusade!

Tadashi wrote:(Picks up bowl of popcorn, sits in front of TV) Crusade!

I wonder if Crusades are like the Superbowl for a America, everyone gathers around the TV and watches the one side they favor get the gak beaten or beats the gak out of the other guys.

I can totally picture a bunch of Guardsmen gathered around a TV wearing soda helmets and eating chips while watching a "Crusade".

I'm sure that Crusades make an interesting TV show in 40k. Imagine a family watching an 'Imperial Crusade' on a holo-pict. It's certainly patriotic, and even the Ecclesiarchy would say it's suitably 'holy', especially the part where aliens/heretic burn and Imperial Guardsmen/Astartes raise Imperial banners Iwo Jima style.

Tadashi wrote:I'm sure that Crusades make an interesting TV show in 40k. Imagine a family watching an 'Imperial Crusade' on a holo-pict. It's certainly patriotic, and even the Ecclesiarchy would say it's suitably 'holy', especially the part where aliens/heretic burn and Imperial Guardsmen/Astartes raise Imperial banners Iwo Jima style.

Now come to think of it, do Astartes or Guardsmen have any games or sports they play in their spare time? like in warp transit or while on Garrison duty?

I could Imagine the Local Planetary Garrisons getting together some time for a soccer league or a good Table Tap Tourny !

I've read somewhere that Space Wolves enjoy physical sports in what little free time they have. It's possible other Chapters have something similar. I'm sure ordinary citizens have something to do to pass the time. Culturally-speaking, they're similar to late 19th Century and early 20th Century Europe.

Doctor Optimal wrote:The basic problem here is that GW has never been able to reconcile their collective hardon for Marines with the scale of their universe. If we're talking fluff, there are (at most) one million loyalist Marines spread over many millions of worlds.

That should be 'approximately one million worlds'. The Imperium has been an empire of a million worlds since forever, and they even managed to sneak a bit into 5th edition about the worlds being spearated by inconceiveable distances and non-Imperial systems. The Imperium is stretched far, but very thin.

Doctor Optimal wrote:The chance of an Imperial Citizen (even a high ranking Guard officer) even seeing a marine during his life is approximate to you or I winning the lottery as Ed McMahon pulls up to your door with the big check.

Astares should be legendary, in the true sense of that term.

And that's how they're described. I haven't seen any fluff, outside of the HH novels, where Marines are everywhere. It's just that their own fluff talks about them - which it should. And the problem is there's a lot of fluff about them. The fluff that talks about other facets of the Imperium do a good job of mentioning how rare they are.

Space Marines are rare. It's rare to the point that when Astartes show up on a battlefield, Guardsmen start thinking "...this must be some gak we're in...".

Tadashi wrote:Space Marines are rare. It's rare to the point that when Astartes show up on a battlefield, Guardsmen start thinking "...this must be some gak we're in...".

Completly agree here,

The Space Marines are only used where 'Normal' troops would struggle or would just simply get killed.

You hear in stories of the AWE that go's through the mind of a guardsman when meeting an Astartes and they normally only meet when a situation is really bad.

nomotog wrote:You will rarely find a war that is just SM.

Indeed. Almost NEVER will Space Marines fight b y themselves.

In fact, it's far more likely to say that most of the time, IG is fighting by itself while the SM are nowhere to be seen simply due to sheer numbers-- Space Marines fighting anything is incredibly rare, despite the fact that they are constnatly fighting, simply because of the massive scale of the galaxy.

nomotog wrote:You will rarely find a war that is just SM. Even the Babar war (also know as the SM war) had a sizable group of IG.

Babar wrote:Death to the false Emperor!

While some chapters do look down on "normal" humans, others actually respect guardsmen for going out there to fight the same foes with none of the advantages of a marine. Bravery and courage are the coin that buy you respect, and success is certainly a good thing too. Any chapter known for some particular trait could also possibly be impressed if a normal man shows that same trait - Imperial Fists might look with some favor on disciplined soldiers that refuse to give ground, for example.