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I have around 3000 pts of Necrons, but I still haven't got a good tactic. I'd be glad to hear any ideas about it. My army list:

HQ:
2 Overlords with res. orbs
2 Lords with Res orbs
2 Crypteks

Troops:
44 Warriors

Elites:
2 C'tan shards
14 flayed ones
10 deathmarks

Fast Attack:
3 Canoptek wraiths
13 Canoptek scarabs
6 Destroyers

Heavy Support:
2 Monoliths
Tomb Stalker
And an annihilation barge/ Command barge (I've built so I can switch between them)

(I change my Overlords, Lords and Crypteks upgrades facing different races, such as Orks, Chaos and Space Marines)

Keep everyone together in a nice big block and blast the gak out of anything that gets too close. Use the Tomb Stalker and the C'tan Shards to intercept anyone that makes it through your fire, Necron Warriors really don't hold up well in close combat.

You may want to get a few Immortals and/or more Warriors for this list.

I've thought about buying some deathmarks for shooting down the enemys heavy weaponry that he might keep to far away for my warriors etc. Of course, Destroyers would fit for that to, but I thought it would be better to keep them further away, also blasting down anyone who gets to close. Is it a better idea to get them closer to the enemy?

Crypteks upgraded to Harbingers of Destruction and equipped with a Solar Pulse (1 per Overlord) give you up to two turns of a maximum 3' threat range from enemy long ranged attacks.

Lose the flayed ones, they're terrible, against nearly everything. The lack of Cryptek options is especially disappointing.

You really should go all or nothing on a unit of wraiths(6), otherwise they're an easy target for getting shot to bits.

It's a good idea to run 5 destroyers if they're not heavy.

Monoliths I would imagine are pretty strong against assault heavy armies that have a harder time with 14 AV. Just keep units in threat range of assaults close to the gate so it can try sucking them into oblivion. Unfortunately, the transition from 5th to 6th is leaving Monoliths in a dangerous place concerning deep strikes, so you'll want to be deploying them at the start of the game in a crowded board.

I've heard a lot of good things about both types of Barges. Annihilation is good anti-infantry, and Command is good anti-vehicle. I personally will be running doomsday arks, which are roughly twice as expensive, but can serve both purposes, and have that ridiculous range.

A single squad of 10 scarabs can quickly make it to at least one enemy vehicle and wreck it in no time, and then tie up another enemy unit in assault for another turn or two. It's a solid investment for 150 points.

Your C'Tan shards will need 2 abilities each. If you do plan to use them, Writhing Worldscape will be your best first choice, even if you don't use the combos for it. Most people pick a personal preference for the second ability after that. As for your second C'Tan, you could give it the two 24" ranged weapons. A hard strike and a large blast aren't bad, and they can both be used each turn since C'Tan are monstrous.

If you want an idea for an army to build out of what you've got, it would help to know what point value you're aiming for...here's a quick 2000 pt list.

455
Phaeron w/ Orb
20 Warriors
1 Harbinger of Destruction w/ Solar Pulse

400
Phaeron w/ Orb
20 Warriors

90- Annihilation Barge

400
2 Monolith

150
10 Scarabs

200
5 Destroyers

195
Tomb Stalker (assuming you can play it, it looks like a ton of fun)

There's about 110 points left till 2000 to give your overlords some upgrades, or add heavy to a couple of destroyers.

Strategy:
Pop solar pulse on your opponents first daylight turn so they have a hard time focus firing anything. March your large incredibly tough warrior packs towards objectives, they can move and shoot 24". Do NOT let the warriors get assaulted if you can help it and don't be afraid to attack vehicles with them, 20 gauss can chip a vehicle down quick. Deploy the two monoliths on either end of the map, but not on the edges, you'll want to be able to travel to any side of them. This will give your warrior units incredible mobility. The monoliths will be big targets, so expect a lot of enemy fire towards them.

Keep your annihilation barge and destroyers on one side of the board together with your C'Tan, don't let them get flanked. If you opted for at least 2 heavy destroyers, keep them at max range and use them on vehicles before bringing them in against any squads. The barge should stick to shooting at infantry.

Try to deploy your scarabs and Tomb Stalker deploy opposite the Barge and Destroyers and have the scarabs run straight for the nearest vehicle with near reckless abandon. They make a great decoy unit. Don't abandon them if you can help it though. Have the Tomb Stalker look for quicker enemy assault units. Usually faster units aren't incredibly tough. Watch out for those with power weapons. Have it use Hit and Run at the end of enemy assault phases so it can charge again, as doing so at the end of your own assault may end in the enemy getting a charge against you. Alternatively you can have it wait until something manages to assault your warriors and have it assault to swiftly get enemy assaults off your warriors' backs. Warriors may be terrible at close combat, but they still take a while to get wiped out.

Your priorities should be eliminating all close combat units starting with the closest. After that, just finish your enemy off starting with their highest strength weapons whenever you have to choose.

I hope this gives you some idea of what is at your disposal. I'm no pro, but I feel like you could make a solid army with what you have.

Stygian Juggernaut wrote:
Lose the flayed ones, they're terrible, against nearly everything. The lack of Cryptek options is especially disappointing.

I can understand cautioning some one who doesn't have them yet to not buy them, but this statement is categorically false. They have versatile deployment options and point for point can stand up to most assault units from TH/SS termies to bog standard assault troops rather well, and they are excellent at taking out board edge hugging HS options. Particularly in a Imotekh list they are quite accurate and deadly, and worst case scenario they can spurn your opponent to scatter from them in which case they can hug some cover next to and objective and soak enemy fire, something their 13 point T4 4+ RP 5+ frame does swimmingly.

Generally people who disparage them don't understand how to use them, or properly appraise their impact when they do, its really that simple. And if our 6th edition rumours are even close to on point, they will be nasty in 6th months.

Many 40kers don't know how to appreciate a units capabilities beyond it's ability to kill X, sometimes threatening X and efficiently taking fire is plenty sufficient (think tanks in the general MMO mechanics).

The trick with Flayed Ones is to take a large-ish unit, 15-20 and flank march them in, hoping to snag an assault when they do.

With Imotek on the board, Deep-Striking and then running to separate them up isn't bad either.

You do need to pick your targets carefully. Small-ish assault units aren't bad to walk into, but you don't want to take on high initiative large-ish units. You also don't want to get into it with a walker. A single Killa-Kan, for example, will wreck your day.

The key is taking a big unit and picking a good target and flank-marching them.

If you can't get the drop on your opponent, the flayed ones will not make their points (as the T4 4+/5+RP isn't all that resilient.)

Well, I'm always open to new ideas, and have tried several proposals on how to effectively use these guys. But I'm told time and again "don't do it" by veterans, and have been looking for one such as yourself, Logoth, who could illuminate the situation surrounding valid tactics for flayed ones.

It always came down to "there are better uses for the elite choice", "there are better necron tactics", and "there are better uses for the points". I find the last of which, kind of hard to swallow. The primary reasoning behind these claims has always been their low initiative, with no real compensating factor.

I personally find that once I take the math hammer to these guys, their primary beneficial effect is that they may not overcome every enemy assault unit, but they can certainly tie up a unit in combat for many turns longer then most due to the reanimation protocols. As an example, for 260 points, they can statistically beat a squad of SH/SS Terminators, but it'll take around 3 game turns to iron them all out, and the Terms cost 400.

I'm interested to hear more on their uses.

Stygian Juggernaut wrote:Well, I'm always open to new ideas, and have tried several proposals on how to effectively use these guys. But I'm told time and again "don't do it" by veterans, and have been looking for one such as yourself, Logoth, who could illuminate the situation surrounding valid tactics for flayed ones.

It always came down to "there are better uses for the elite choice", "there are better necron tactics", and "there are better uses for the points". I find the last of which, kind of hard to swallow. The primary reasoning behind these claims has always been their low initiative, with no real compensating factor.

I personally find that once I take the math hammer to these guys, their primary beneficial effect is that they may not overcome every enemy assault unit, but they can certainly tie up a unit in combat for many turns longer then most due to the reanimation protocols. As an example, for 260 points, they can statistically beat a squad of SH/SS Terminators, but it'll take around 3 game turns to iron them all out, and the Terms cost 400.

I'm interested to hear more on their uses.

Yeah I feel you on that. My experience is generally veteran players are just as, if not more, prone to fallacies of preconceived notions as new players are. The elite slot of the Dex isn't one that is generally maxxed out, point for point they are about as good as it gets for assault out of the dex, and tactics I think the real deal is they don't fit into the way many players like to play, which is fine, but not the same as them being inferior.



My advice is make them big enough to be both resilient and scary, so depending on the army size 10 to 20 models. If they have a priority target (long fangs etc.) make a bee line for them, hugging cover on the way.

If you have no immediate viable targets spread out as wide as you can and eat objectives and cover. You opponent will have to shoot at them, which is just peachy because then there not shooting at other things like wraiths and the like that don't have quite the point for point resilience the FOs have.

I generally take about 15 in my Imo list, it's only about 10% of the point cost of my list and almost always plays into more then 10% of my strategy.

I had an idea for a heavy CC army that dropped 60 of these guys under the cover of Immotekh's night, using his blood swarm nano scarabs. Supplemented by Doom Scythes (useful vs both CC and Vehicles, night fight helps them survive) or scarabs for accelerated vehicle eats. Solidify night fight with a double chronometron backed storm that endlessly rains thunderbolts. The idea was shot down as the flayed ones were considered a terrible idea.

Stygian Juggernaut wrote:I had an idea for a heavy CC army that dropped 60 of these guys under the cover of Immotekh's night, using his blood swarm nano scarabs. Supplemented by Doom Scythes (useful vs both CC and Vehicles, night fight helps them survive) or scarabs for accelerated vehicle eats. Solidify night fight with a double chronometron backed storm that endlessly rains thunderbolts. The idea was shot down as the flayed ones were considered a terrible idea.

Never let the interwebs discourage you from a cool idea in a game of toy plastic soldiers. Although, one knock I could see against that idea is it could get a tad expensive, but I say proxy it up a bit and run with and see how you like it.

I could see the above working with Imo in Phaeron warrior block, with lots of Wraths/Scarabs bossting up the field, and Dooms DSing in for 10/1 goodness.

Capture your imagination for an army and run with it, tweak the points accordingly, to me is the way to play the game to the most enjoyment. Particularly with an idea like that, most people won't have any idea how to fight the list purely from lack of exposure, and that is always an advantage in battle. (And battle is serious bidness, we have the honour of toy soldiers to uphold ).

The big big big issue with flayed ones is the $200 cost for a 260 point unit :-)

I've got a handful of the old metal ones, I'd like a few more just to try some of the fun out.

I agree with ShadarLogoth in that the Elites section isn't exactly maxed out in most Necron armies. You could take two Triarch Stalkers and still take a unit of Flayed Ones.

--

Tangentially, I had a Veteren tell me that Triarch Stalkers aren't so good because they don't have a Dreadnaught CCW... which I replied, "No, but they have 3 S7 attacks and an AV of 13 if they haven't been penned yet".

--

Anyway, Flayed Ones require special thinking, but they aren't really replaced by any other unit for the tactical purpose you bring them for.

Do I run 'em? No. But I can conceive of situations where they'd be alright. (DS'ing 20 down in an Imotek list and running for cover, then assaulting next turn).

loreweaver wrote:The big big big issue with flayed ones is the $200 cost for a 260 point unit :-)

I've got a handful of the old metal ones, I'd like a few more just to try some of the fun out.

I agree with ShadarLogoth in that the Elites section isn't exactly maxed out in most Necron armies. You could take two Triarch Stalkers and still take a unit of Flayed Ones.

--

Tangentially, I had a Veteren tell me that Triarch Stalkers aren't so good because they don't have a Dreadnaught CCW... which I replied, "No, but they have 3 S7 attacks and an AV of 13 if they haven't been penned yet".

--

Anyway, Flayed Ones require special thinking, but they aren't really replaced by any other unit for the tactical purpose you bring them for.

Do I run 'em? No. But I can conceive of situations where they'd be alright. (DS'ing 20 down in an Imotek list and running for cover, then assaulting next turn).

That's a good point about the TS, you could tarpit S6 and lower units for a long time thanks to the AV13, heck even a Pfist will only Pen it on a 6. I haven't run Stalkers yet but I could certainly see them retaining some tactical effectiveness even beyond the loss of their gun.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

loreweaver wrote:The big big big issue with flayed ones is the $200 cost for a 260 point unit :-)

I've got a handful of the old metal ones, I'd like a few more just to try some of the fun out.

I agree with ShadarLogoth in that the Elites section isn't exactly maxed out in most Necron armies. You could take two Triarch Stalkers and still take a unit of Flayed Ones.

--

Tangentially, I had a Veteren tell me that Triarch Stalkers aren't so good because they don't have a Dreadnaught CCW... which I replied, "No, but they have 3 S7 attacks and an AV of 13 if they haven't been penned yet".

--

Anyway, Flayed Ones require special thinking, but they aren't really replaced by any other unit for the tactical purpose you bring them for.

Do I run 'em? No. But I can conceive of situations where they'd be alright. (DS'ing 20 down in an Imotek list and running for cover, then assaulting next turn).

That's a good point about the TS, you could tarpit S6 and lower units for a long time thanks to the AV13, heck even a Pfist will only Pen it on a 6. I haven't run Stalkers yet but I could certainly see them retaining some tactical effectiveness even beyond the loss of their gun.

In my experinece, Stalkers really need to be run in pairs, and as compliments to an AV 13 list. You also have to be around the 2k mark, IMO, for them to be really effective, with your list.

I've started using suicide Deathmark squads recently, and they are a real blast to play.

How are you building you death mark units Sasori? VeilTek+GauntLord or something different?

ShadarLogoth wrote:How are you building you death mark units Sasori? VeilTek+GauntLord or something different?

I like to take just the Veiltek. The Abyssal staff is just wonderful, when it wounds on a 2+ for the marked units. It's excellent for wiping out units like Longfangs. I have really been surprised at the performance of that unit, as I was always skeptical of them. Azazel convinced me to give them a whirl, and they haven't let me down yet.

While they don't always make their points back, in points killed, eliminating something like 5 missile launchers before they get a chance to even fire (Thanks to nightfight) is just invaluable.

Sasori wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:How are you building you death mark units Sasori? VeilTek+GauntLord or something different?

I like to take just the Veiltek. The Abyssal staff is just wonderful, when it wounds on a 2+ for the marked units. It's excellent for wiping out units like Longfangs. I have really been surprised at the performance of that unit, as I was always skeptical of them. Azazel convinced me to give them a whirl, and they haven't let me down yet.

While they don't always make their points back, in points killed, eliminating something like 5 missile launchers before they get a chance to even fire (Thanks to nightfight) is just invaluable.

Yeah no doubt.

Anyone who has any ideas of how to expand my army?Some deathmarks, more crypkteks, warriors, and immortals is probably a good idea, triarch stalkers when their available and also some transports. Anything else that would be useful?

Wouldn't a Tremor Staff be really effective in a Deathmark squad? Multiple Deathmark squads with one in each could fire on units usually to far away. Use a stalker to twin link that blast and you've got some wounds to doll out. Too bad they both use the elite choice.

I'm having a tough time seeing how you're managing to deep strike close enough to get in range to use the template without being shot to smithereens or assaulted first.

I'm really interested by all the combos Newcrons are capable of. You can really get some mad tech out of them.

In regards to the OP: You still could use a Heavy Support. If your army is very shooty with little CC, Doomsday Arks are a good follow up. If you're going for scarabs, Spyders are a great way to back them up, and are a good assault unit in their own right. If you want a mixed bag, Doom Scythes can wreck anything but are vulnerable with their lower AV11. If you're primarily concerned with troops, I hear annihilation barges wreck for their low cost.

Edit: Oh yeah, and then there's Monoliths...they're good for troop mobility, but until that deep strike gets fixed, I'm not really the guy to be asking about them.

Deathmarks have a few options to deploy close to the enemy. However, I'm not sure number two is valid, it's not been clearly FAQ'd

1) Just DO IT! Choose a D/S target point close enough to the enemy to get the pattern in. Risky, but high risk gives high reward!

2) Etherial Interception: If you have a Cryptek in your squad. I'm not sure you can be in Deep Strike Reserve. if you CAN, then this is a tactic. D/S in the ENEMY phase into cover, take the shooting step damage, and then move out into close enough range to SMITE!.

3. Night Scythe: Just toss them in a scythe, turbo up to the target unit, take the fire with the 4+ cover, and SMITE!

4. Monolith: Use the portal to spit the Deathmarks out at optimal distance to the enemy, and SMITE!

Stygian Juggernaut wrote:Wouldn't a Tremor Staff be really effective in a Deathmark squad? Multiple Deathmark squads with one in each could fire on units usually to far away. Use a stalker to twin link that blast and you've got some wounds to doll out. Too bad they both use the elite choice.

I'm having a tough time seeing how you're managing to deep strike close enough to get in range to use the template without being shot to smithereens or assaulted first.

I Deepstrike in my turn. I don't use their Ethereal Interception rule, I just use regular deepstrike. Perhaps my Deepstrikes are "Ballsy" but I've never had trouble getting close enough for rapidfire range, and the Template.

Well, if you're willing to risk a night scythe. Load Nemesor Zahndrekh into one. Move 36". Have Obyron Deep Strike without scatter any kind of unit you want. Then Zahndrekh could either climb out next turn with w/e kindof nasty unit you had him with, or 36" somewhere else for another face wreck. On top of all that, you can deepstrike OUT of close combat with Obyron!

Keep everything together and blast them to pieces in the opening turns.