Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Setup:
I played in an annual local tournament this past weekend. I was playing Blood Angels versus Chaos Daemons. The game was winding down and it was time to start to capture objectives. I parked a Razorback holding a Sanguinary priest and a five man assault squad on an objective. The Daemon player assaulted my Razorback with a large squad of Bloodletters and managed to completely surround the Razorback. The Daemon player wrecked the Razorback. The squad and priest were forced to make an emergency disebarkation (P. 67 Core Rulebook).

This is where the conversation about what we did right and what we did wrong begins...

I placed two models from the assault squad and the Sanguinary priest on top of the wrecked Razorback. I assumed the other models killed due to 1" away from enemy rules. I then rolled three dangerous terrain tests and lost one model from the assault squad and the Sanguinary priest. I then made a pinning test for the remaining model and failed. We rolled to see if the game continued and it did not. The game ended. We asked the tournament organizer if a pinned model could contest and objective. He ruled no. I don't care about the bad rolls, the win or loss, or any other nonsense. I am a bad player and I want to get better by knowing the rules more completely.

1) Did we play the emergency disembarkation rule correctly?
--Should the entire squad have been removed since all models could not be placed legally (1" away from enemy)?
--Should the surviving models been forced to take a dangerous terrain test?

2) Does a pinned scoring unit capture/contest objectives?

Thanks for your feedback.

1) No. Models must disembark before the vehicle model is removed if a Wrecked result is rolled. So no models may be placed on top of the vehicle. If it is totally surrounded your guys would be dead.

2) Yes. Nothing in the rules says otherwise. You should have asked the TO for an actual rule instead of an opinion.

To answer 2: Yes, a pinned unit can capture/contest objectives.

To answer 1: I'm pretty sure you don't take a dangerous terrain test as there's no dangerous terrain.

1.) If the razorback was completely surrounded and then wrecked, then the occupants would have been destroyed. They cannot be placed on top of the razorback because it doesn't officially become a wreck until after the occupants get out.

If just the doors were blocked but the front was uncovered, you could have 'emergency disembarked' from that side of the vehicle, remembering the 2" disembark rule and staying 1" from enemy models. Any models you could not have placed would have been destroyed.

2.) Going to Ground (also known as being pinned) does not hamper a unit's ability to claim or contest objectives. They may not move or shoot until they've regained combat readiness, but that does not impede the scoring system of the game.

Darn! I really don't want to be TFG! I chatted with the guy after the game and he didn't seem mad and I don't think he felt cheated. I certainly wasn't trying to get an unfair advantage. I just didn't know the rules... Ah well... Play and learn. Thanks again for your feedback!

Well it sounds like two wrongs made a right since you placed models wrong but they said they couldn't contest since they were Pinned (wrongly). So don't beat yourself up to bad.

Also, TFG does things knowingly wrong. Ignorance of the rules doesn't make you TFG.

There's very little that makes a (scoring) unit not score or contest. Not even falling back... although in standard missions those are removed before checking the score.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Ignorance of the rules doesn't make you TFG.

Until your ignorance has persisted so long, you've obviously avoided learning the rules on purpose. (Yes, I've played with TFG.)

I find that when asking for a judges ruling, if you ask directly for proof one way or another it helps get things sorted properly. There is no shame in being right and wanting to prove it when you are unfairly told otherwise, as long as you are not trying to exploit loopholes or force an outcome based on shaky rules interactions.

As others have pointed out, the unit should have been destroyed because the vehicle was Wrecked, and a vehicle is not removed as a wreck until AFTER the unit disembarks. If the vehicle had instead exploded, the vehicle is removed immediately and a crater is placed where it was (if one is available). The unit is then placed "where the vehicle used to be". So far as I can tell, there are no additional qualifiers to this statement. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but this seems to be a little ambiguous. One of several things could happen. A) The unit is placed where the vehicle used to be and if all models cannot be placed at least 1" from enemy models, the unit is removed as casualties. B) The unit is placed where the vehicle used to be, and any models that cannot be placed at least 1" from an enemy model are removed as casualties. C) The unit is placed where the vehicle used to be, and enemy models are moved by the shortest distance so that there is at least 1" of distance between them and the unit being placed. D) Something else entirely that I haven't thought of.

I checked the FAQ for this and I found nothing, but it's entirely possible I missed something relevant to the above.

The other question at hand is the matter of pinned units and objectives. When a unit fails a Pinning test, they immediately "go to ground". Units that have "gone to ground" may not take any voluntary action on their turn, but they are otherwise unaffected. They can hold objectives just fine, and they can certainly contest them. It's common practice for a unit to be held in reserves simply to come onto the board later in the game, move onto an objective, then go to ground upon being shot by the enemy in order to improve their chances of survival.