juggernaut armor save

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**Camarodragon**

So I hear everyone saying a bloodletter on a juggers save is +3.. but I'm not so sure. Isn't it a +4... Or am I missing something?

**DukeRustfield**

3

**nosferatu1001**

+3, as specified int he rules for a juggernaught

It specifies that this replaces the normal +1 for being mounted, so you dont get to add it again!

**Scarecrow456**

What makes it a 3+?

I know the jugger adds 3+ to an armor save instead of 1, but with no other armor, is that extra 1 coming from being mounted?

**Johnny-Crass**

Because it is a giant brass rhino? It does not have bardning it is just a static +3 for being mounted on it

**DukeRustfield**

No, it's +3 not 3+.

So the net is a 4+ armor save since letters have no natural armor. Sometimes which side the +- is on can be confusing.

**Impy**

Correct, if Juggernauts grant the rider +3 to his armor save, than the Bloodletter riding it would have a 4+ save. (A character wearing 4+ chaos armor would thus have a 1+ armor save when mounted on a Juggernaut)

**Camarodragon**

That was my thought, that they would have a save of 4+. If it was a Herald with armor of khorne (+3 ) would have a 0+. (limited to +1 by the BRB.).

**Red_Zeke**

This is just a terminology problem.

When people say an armor save is 4+, they're saying you pass on a 4 or higher (barring modifiers). Conversely, when written as +4, it typically means that it adds 4 to your existing armor save.

So the juggernaut grants +3 to your armor save. When included with a model that has no existing armor, this translates to a 4+ armor save.

**cowpow16**

Against a str 3 attack the jugger (riding blood letter) would have to roll a 4+ not to get hurt.