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Hi, Here is a 1000pt list i have made to face my friends orks in most likely an objective or annihilation game.

HQ
Librarian with null zone and avenger- 100pts
TROOPS
10 tactical squad with flamer, combi-flamer and missile launcher in rhino- 215pts
5 scount squad with snipers camo cloaks- 90pts
ELITES
Dreadnought with 2 twin linked autocannons - 125pts
FAST ATTACK
2 X Land speeder with typhoon missile launcher - 180pts
Land speeder with Heavy Flamer and Multi Melta - 70pts
HEAVY SUPPORT
3 X Predator tank with autocannon - 180pts

Tactics are to sit and shoot, then when they are close tank shock to bunch up orks then flamer them up!

Please can you help me improve it and give advice!

Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone out there able to offer advice?

Hey there. Do you know what sort of list your opponent is using? That will really help in determining what you should take against him.

Right now you have Land Speeders which are going to be short-lived if he is using Lootas. The autocannons aren't bad choices, but depending on what he is using they could be less useful. They can't strike through Battlewagons front armor. A lot of players will be using a Big Mek with a KFF regardless of the type of list they roll with. If he is footslogging his boyz at you, I would strongly reccomend Whirlwinds with Incendiary Castellan. They ignore the cover saves and armor saves that Orks have, and those large ordinance blasts will really thin out his army.

Thanks for the reply! I considered whirlwinds but i dont think he'll have a massive horde. When i played before he had a 10 man nob squad with warboss (with 2x pk, pain boy, 2x big choppa) in a truck, 3x warbuggies, 3x killakans, 30x boys and some big guns. though theres a chance he pulls out a battlewagon, big mek or lootas in this coming game. Would lootas be an issue? a couple of tanks aiming at them and they should be running? I thought the skimmers would be good for anti infantry as well as being able to insta kill the nobz and pop any transports with the missile launcher, i was hoping to tank shock and mobs i found and get some templates put on them when they are bunched up.

I was just tinkering with my list to try and make sure i have the best chance! Any other advice?

I would switch the librarian's null zone with the avenger, because the ork list doesn't seem to have any invulnerable saves.
I would also give tactical squad a drop pod so you can try and take out the big gunz straight away.
Scout snipers also seems a bit off an odd thing to include against ork's, as there usually fearless.
I think some hunter killer's on your predator's might help with the light vehicles.
The wargear on the land speeder's is well suited though.
I think the high amount of auto cannon's should be good against the amount of low AV vehicles.

Thanks for the reply! I considered whirlwinds but i dont think he'll have a massive horde. When i played before he had a 10 man nob squad with warboss (with 2x pk, pain boy, 2x big choppa) in a truck, 3x warbuggies, 3x killakans, 30x boys and some big guns. though theres a chance he pulls out a battlewagon, big mek or lootas in this coming game. Would lootas be an issue? a couple of tanks aiming at them and they should be running? I thought the skimmers would be good for anti infantry as well as being able to insta kill the nobz and pop any transports with the missile launcher, i was hoping to tank shock and mobs i found and get some templates put on them when they are bunched up.

I was just tinkering with my list to try and make sure i have the best chance! Any other advice?

A 10 man Nob Squad is a deathstar, so that needs to be neutralized as early as you can if he goes with it. His big mistake is putting them in a Trukk, which he will probably learn is not an effective way to deliver such a powerful unit to CC (AV10 will not stand up to your autocannons). More likely he will put that Nob squad if he takes it again in a Battlewagon, which Nobz can take as a dedicated transport anyways.

I think the skimmers aren't as good because they won't be insta-killing his Nobz. With a painboy, he gives the squad both a 5+ invulnerable save with cybork bodies and FNP. The Lootas are potentially an issue if not dealt with early, and they will take down your skimmers easily (and can even crack the Predators and Dreads). If he is not taking many Lootas (so less than 15 lets say), you should be fine focusing them down with your autocannons. If he isn't taking lots of big mobs then forget what I said about the Whirlwinds. The Predators are a good choice along with the Dreadnoughts. So... if you feel confident you can destroy his Lootas then your land speeders are a lot more safe to dish out damage.

Overall, your primary target should be Lootas first and then his Nob squad if possible. If he puts them in a trukk again then it's open season, but if they are in a battlewagon that is a little harder to crack (AV14). However, with no Lootas then your land speeders can target the BW side armor (AV12) or if you get lucky, rear armor (AV10). Once those Nobz have to be walking, you can pin them with the snipers and finish them off with your ranged firepower. If he is able to bring his Nobz and Boyz into CC range of your tac squad, deny them the charge at all costs. That will mean they lose their +1 Initiative and +1 Strength from Furious Charge along with the conventional +1 Attack. Nobz are Initiative 3 normally and boyz are 2.

Apart from that, you seem to have a good list to beat your opponent, just play smart and shoot as much as you can. Good luck.

Change the preds to TL LC and HB sponsons or Autocannon and LC sponsons IMHO. Also, lootas will be in cover so make sure you have something to deal with it. You want to shoot these guys to death, and a whirlwind will help with that.

I don't see the speeders doing much since they are typhoons and 1 mm/hf.

Personally, I would drop two preds, add a whirlwind or just save the points, and take more tactical squads and maybe another dreadnought. The extra dread (keep the DCCW , add HF. and use the assault cannon) will deal with FNP nobs via DCCW S10 power weapon, but will get hit hard by the power klaws if he doesn't do significant losses and especially if the orks charge, and tactical squads can sit and shoot. I don't see this being a mobility game and more of a war of attrition, so only 1 or 2 rhinos are necessary. Add power weapons and AP 2 shooting, as FNP is a great way to give a decent save to orks.

Reckoner wrote:

Thanks for the reply! I considered whirlwinds but i dont think he'll have a massive horde. When i played before he had a 10 man nob squad with warboss (with 2x pk, pain boy, 2x big choppa) in a truck, 3x warbuggies, 3x killakans, 30x boys and some big guns. though theres a chance he pulls out a battlewagon, big mek or lootas in this coming game. Would lootas be an issue? a couple of tanks aiming at them and they should be running? I thought the skimmers would be good for anti infantry as well as being able to insta kill the nobz and pop any transports with the missile launcher, i was hoping to tank shock and mobs i found and get some templates put on them when they are bunched up.

I was just tinkering with my list to try and make sure i have the best chance! Any other advice?

A 10 man Nob Squad is a deathstar, so that needs to be neutralized as early as you can if he goes with it. His big mistake is putting them in a Trukk, which he will probably learn is not an effective way to deliver such a powerful unit to CC (AV10 will not stand up to your autocannons). More likely he will put that Nob squad if he takes it again in a Battlewagon, which Nobz can take as a dedicated transport anyways.

I think the skimmers aren't as good because they won't be insta-killing his Nobz. With a painboy, he gives the squad both a 5+ invulnerable save with cybork bodies and FNP. The Lootas are potentially an issue if not dealt with early, and they will take down your skimmers easily (and can even crack the Predators and Dreads). If he is not taking many Lootas (so less than 15 lets say), you should be fine focusing them down with your autocannons. If he isn't taking lots of big mobs then forget what I said about the Whirlwinds. The Predators are a good choice along with the Dreadnoughts. So... if you feel confident you can destroy his Lootas then your land speeders are a lot more safe to dish out damage.

Overall, your primary target should be Lootas first and then his Nob squad if possible. If he puts them in a trukk again then it's open season, but if they are in a battlewagon that is a little harder to crack (AV14). However, with no Lootas then your land speeders can target the BW side armor (AV12) or if you get lucky, rear armor (AV10). Once those Nobz have to be walking, you can pin them with the snipers and finish them off with your ranged firepower. If he is able to bring his Nobz and Boyz into CC range of your tac squad, deny them the charge at all costs. That will mean they lose their +1 Initiative and +1 Strength from Furious Charge along with the conventional +1 Attack. Nobz are Initiative 3 normally and boyz are 2.

Apart from that, you seem to have a good list to beat your opponent, just play smart and shoot as much as you can. Good luck.

Couldnt the skimmers inta kill the nobz with the typhoon missile launcher?

Lootas are killy and will make short work of the landspeeders given the shot. If he puts nobs in trukk, then as stated just blow that thing up and keep plugging away at them as they slog-pin them if you can and don't let them cross the field-special note 10 nobs+Warboss = 11 for mob rule and can't be pinned I think. In a battlewagon you have a real problem if that squad gets close to you, it will crump the humies. probably your best bet at that point is to sacrifice your dreadnoughts since they can ID a few w initiative and let the tacs keep killing the regular boyz instead. Don't send the tacs into CC with the nobs unless it's a last resort just to deny him the charge. If there is a battelwagon you may want some more las cannons around, TL LAS on the preds is a good idea and should handle the wagon if its just a single with no mek. If there is any chance he is going to bring lootas, just skip the landspeeders imo, they are just a free kill.

Grots R OP wrote:Lootas are killy and will make short work of the landspeeders given the shot. If he puts nobs in trukk, then as stated just blow that thing up and keep plugging away at them as they slog-pin them if you can and don't let them cross the field-special note 10 nobs+Warboss = 11 for mob rule and can't be pinned I think. In a battlewagon you have a real problem if that squad gets close to you, it will crump the humies. probably your best bet at that point is to sacrifice your dreadnoughts since they can ID a few w initiative and let the tacs keep killing the regular boyz instead. Don't send the tacs into CC with the nobs unless it's a last resort just to deny him the charge. If there is a battelwagon you may want some more las cannons around, TL LAS on the preds is a good idea and should handle the wagon if its just a single with no mek. If there is any chance he is going to bring lootas, just skip the landspeeders imo, they are just a free kill.

I was thinking the speeders would be good for getting around the back of the wagon and popping it with missiles or melta, surely the las's on a predator wont be that effective against the wagons front armour :S? Do you not think speeders would be a good idea? There would be three and they wouldnt be squaded, so at worst lootas could only take one a turn so it wouldnt be a big loss...

Couldnt the skimmers inta kill the nobz with the typhoon missile launcher?

No. The Typhoon Missile launcher is Heavy 1, Strength 5 AP 5, Blast TL. You are thinking of the Krak Missile Launcher, which is Heavy 1, Strength 8 AP 3. The Nobz will have both a 5+ invulnerable save and a 4+ FNP save on top of that against the Typhoon. Against a Krak Missile Launcher, it is only Heavy 1, not blast, and is not TL, and the Nob still gets his invulnerable save. If a Nob failed that, then a Krak missile would ignore FNP and kill him outright. Still not an effective way to kill them in my opinion.

Again, I don't think you should take the land speeders. But if you do, the assault cannon is a better choice than the typhoon missiles. It's Strength 6 which will wound the Nobz on a 2+, and it's heavy 4 Rending which means on rolls of 6 it will ignore FNP.

Thing is, with these land speeders costing 70-90 points each, they are just a waste of points for an AV10 skimmer which can get destroyed pretty easily.

If you really want to be able to crush those Nobz, you could swap out a Predator for a Vindicator. Strength 10 AP 2 Ordinance Large Blast will ignore FNP, catch most of the Nobz in the blast marker, and kill outright. They will still have their 5+ invulnerable save, but the Demolisher will do some nasty work. You can use it against his Boyz too if they get close, or against his vehicles.

I was thinking the speeders would be good for getting around the back of the wagon and popping it with missiles or melta, surely the las's on a predator wont be that effective against the wagons front armour :S? Do you not think speeders would be a good idea? There would be three and they wouldnt be squaded, so at worst lootas could only take one a turn so it wouldnt be a big loss...

Relying on getting behind the BWs with your skimmers isn't a good tactic. If the lootas are alive, they will destroy the skimmers. If they aren't alive, you still aren't likely to get the job done in time. The BWs are delivery machines, they will likely drop their cargo (Boyz) before you can get behind them. After that, their only purpose is trying to tank shock anything they can find. A melta to the rear will pop one, but if he has a KFF, that Melta only has a 50% chance of getting through the Force Field if it does hit. Battlewagons only need 1-2 turns to accomplish their mission, so you should be trying to get varying types of weapons to hit their side armor. A few lascannons have a bit better of a chance of doing that.

Overall, I think you should drop the skimmers entirely. You could give your Predators some las sponsons and remove one for a Vindicator. You would still have points left over after that. That's just my opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, disregard most of what I said about Land Speeders. I was using an outdated source.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, disregard most of what I said about typhoon missiles. I was using an outdated source.

cpthards wrote:

Grots R OP wrote:Lootas are killy and will make short work of the landspeeders given the shot. If he puts nobs in trukk, then as stated just blow that thing up and keep plugging away at them as they slog-pin them if you can and don't let them cross the field-special note 10 nobs+Warboss = 11 for mob rule and can't be pinned I think. In a battlewagon you have a real problem if that squad gets close to you, it will crump the humies. probably your best bet at that point is to sacrifice your dreadnoughts since they can ID a few w initiative and let the tacs keep killing the regular boyz instead. Don't send the tacs into CC with the nobs unless it's a last resort just to deny him the charge. If there is a battelwagon you may want some more las cannons around, TL LAS on the preds is a good idea and should handle the wagon if its just a single with no mek. If there is any chance he is going to bring lootas, just skip the landspeeders imo, they are just a free kill.

I was thinking the speeders would be good for getting around the back of the wagon and popping it with missiles or melta, surely the las's on a predator wont be that effective against the wagons front armour :S? Do you not think speeders would be a good idea? There would be three and they wouldnt be squaded, so at worst lootas could only take one a turn so it wouldnt be a big loss...

Depending on how many lootas he has, you might get a round of shooting. 15 lootas taking 30 shots = ~10 hit which will give him ~2 glances and 4-5 pens. So if he was running 15 lootas he could easily disable/kill 3 in one turn. Most likely he will not be running 15 lootas though so figure he is going to pop 1 land speeder a turn with 5-7 lootas. I don't know the landspeeder builds too well, but depending on terrain los etc, you might get one through for a side shot. I think it's a bit risky though if he has 10+ lootas. Lootas are probably one of the best things in the game for popping av10/11. 30-45 str 7 shots per round will have no problem wrecking 3 landspeeders.

The TL lascannon has only about a 4% chance of wrecking it from the front if he has KFF so I guess it's an unreliable choice. The landspeeders might do the trick if you can disrupt his lootas. Drop pop a ironclad right next to his lootas with a flamer and lascannon. The lootas can't really effectively kill an iron clad and they have no Power klaw so the dreadnought will shred them. Afterwards you can shoot rear armor on the wagon with the TL lascannon.

You should replace the 3 preds for 2 Dakka preds (auto cannon hb sides) for 10 points less you go from 6 shots to 16 shots per turn

Grots R OP wrote:

cpthards wrote:

Grots R OP wrote:Lootas are killy and will make short work of the landspeeders given the shot. If he puts nobs in trukk, then as stated just blow that thing up and keep plugging away at them as they slog-pin them if you can and don't let them cross the field-special note 10 nobs+Warboss = 11 for mob rule and can't be pinned I think. In a battlewagon you have a real problem if that squad gets close to you, it will crump the humies. probably your best bet at that point is to sacrifice your dreadnoughts since they can ID a few w initiative and let the tacs keep killing the regular boyz instead. Don't send the tacs into CC with the nobs unless it's a last resort just to deny him the charge. If there is a battelwagon you may want some more las cannons around, TL LAS on the preds is a good idea and should handle the wagon if its just a single with no mek. If there is any chance he is going to bring lootas, just skip the landspeeders imo, they are just a free kill.

I was thinking the speeders would be good for getting around the back of the wagon and popping it with missiles or melta, surely the las's on a predator wont be that effective against the wagons front armour :S? Do you not think speeders would be a good idea? There would be three and they wouldnt be squaded, so at worst lootas could only take one a turn so it wouldnt be a big loss...

Depending on how many lootas he has, you might get a round of shooting. 15 lootas taking 30 shots = ~10 hit which will give him ~2 glances and 4-5 pens. So if he was running 15 lootas he could easily disable/kill 3 in one turn. Most likely he will not be running 15 lootas though so figure he is going to pop 1 land speeder a turn with 5-7 lootas. I don't know the landspeeder builds too well, but depending on terrain los etc, you might get one through for a side shot. I think it's a bit risky though if he has 10+ lootas. Lootas are probably one of the best things in the game for popping av10/11. 30-45 str 7 shots per round will have no problem wrecking 3 landspeeders.

The TL lascannon has only about a 4% chance of wrecking it from the front if he has KFF so I guess it's an unreliable choice. The landspeeders might do the trick if you can disrupt his lootas. Drop pop a ironclad right next to his lootas with a flamer and lascannon. The lootas can't really effectively kill an iron clad and they have no Power klaw so the dreadnought will shred them. Afterwards you can shoot rear armor on the wagon with the TL lascannon.

Even if he had 15 Lootas, they would only be able to shoot at one LS in a turn so i'd loose one but one would get through, though i guess sacrificing LS just so another can get a shot isnt the best tactic..., ironclad's cant take Las right? i could drop a regular dred in though and melta, though its a bit suicidal too :S

Pony_law wrote:You should replace the 3 preds for 2 Dakka preds (auto cannon hb sides) for 10 points less you go from 6 shots to 16 shots per turn.

Good idea, I have

Here is a slightly modified list though its far from perfect:

HQ
Librarian with null zone and avenger- 100pts
TROOPS
10 tactical squad with flamer and missile launcher in rhino- 205pts
5 scount squad with snipers camo cloaks- 90pts
ELITES
Dreadnought with 2 twin linked autocannons - 125pts
FAST ATTACK
2 X Land speeder with typhoon missile launcher - 180pts
Land speeder with Heavy Flamer and Multi Melta - 70pts
HEAVY SUPPORT
2 X Predator tank with Autocannon and heavy bolter sponsons - 85pts
Predator tank with Autocannon - 60pts


I know poeple have said the LS's are not good, epecially against lootas, but i cant see another way of getting behind the battle wagon quickly and popping it. I would also focus on the lootas with dred and predators on the first go so they dont get much shooting, so would this not be enough to distract them while i take care of the BW? Or would a suicide drop pod be a good way of taking care of the BW (or the Lootas for that matter)?

Yeah sorry I thought LS were always squadroned. But yeah I don't think sacrificing 1-2 to get 1-2 in is tactically that sound. Lootas can crack av12 decently so be careful w anything but ironclad dread vs them. Lootas die/break to anything that gets near them though. Even a 5 pack of tacs in a pod could do it.

cpthards wrote:

Even if he had 15 Lootas, they would only be able to shoot at one LS in a turn so i'd loose one but one would get through, though i guess sacrificing LS just so another can get a shot isnt the best tactic..., ironclad's cant take Las right? i could drop a regular dred in though and melta, though its a bit suicidal too :S

Actually, depending on the point value and size of my army, I'm normally running lootas as 3 squads of 5.

Rocket launcher dev squads. Only 150 per five man squad. Also heavy bolter dev squad, same cost. Attack bikes too. Cheap stuff seems to do ok for me. Heavy bolters and Missle launchers. Long range and cheap. H.bolters can lay down nice firepower.

Librarian (Avenger + other power) 100pts
Tactical Squad (Combi-flamer, flamer, ML) 180pts
Rhino 35pts
Tactical Squad (Combi-flamer, flamer, ML) 180pts
Rhino 35pts
Typhoon 90pts
Typhoon 90pts
Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons) 85pts
Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons) 85pts
Predator (Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons) 120pts

You now have plently of dakka for hordes. Typhoons eat lootas up, if you get first turn open on them with frags (and the predators if necessary) til they're whittled down. If you don't have first turn you can put the speeders out of range/LOS (remember firing the typhoon missile launcher as frags counts as a defensive weapon so you can still move 12" and fire everything). If he's playing trukks you have enough Missiles/Heavy bolters/Autocannons to put them down easily (same with Kan wall).

If he has battle wagons it will be harder for you (but battle wagons are expensive) in which case go for the side armour shots with the typhoons and AC/HB predators (don't be afraid to move with the predator and just fire the autocannon) while the AC/Las predator can crank out shots at the front armour.

Keep the flamer/combi-flamer in the rhino til you can get a nice dual flamer shot/assault which is brutal if the orks are clumped together.

Hope this helps.

Some say not to take null zone for the lack of invul save in orks but if he relies heavily on that Nob death star I would keep it since re reolling 5+ is tough.

One thing is real kool for you. I personally think orcs vs space marines are the best match up in the game.