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A SM player can take Marneous Calgar...AND an Ultramarines Chapter Master?
Or two different individual Chapter masters.
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Especially when the highest "rank" IG can get is Company Commander.

What does it say on the chapter master entry?
Doesn't it have a 0-1 limit?

No.

The issue is you're just not familiar with how chapters work. There are multiple chapter masters, such as the big guy like Calgar, the Master of the Fleet, etc.

Now that's just dumb.
And broken, as it means that the SM can prolly drop 2 OBs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bookwrack wrote:The issue is you're just not familiar with how chapters work. There are multiple chapter masters, such as the big guy like Calgar, the Master of the Fleet, etc.

Wait what? Really?
I thought there was only one CM, and he's the boss.

Bookwrack wrote:The issue is you're just not familiar with how chapters work. There are multiple chapter masters, such as the big guy like Calgar, the Master of the Fleet, etc.

This is more likely.
I assumed each chapter only had one master, is this not the case?
"You may include one honour guard squad for every Chapter Master in your army" so yeah it's WAD to have multiple chapter masters.

Says the guy that has 2 basilisk. It's not fair.

That's a pretty weak definition of 'broken.' I would love to have my opponent blow both of his HQ slots and at least 250 points for two OBs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joey wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:The issue is you're just not familiar with how chapters work. There are multiple chapter masters, such as the big guy like Calgar, the Master of the Fleet, etc.

This is more likely.
I assumed each chapter only had one master, is this not the case?
"You may include one honour guard squad for every Chapter Master in your army" so yeah it's WAD to have multiple chapter masters.

Here's GW's full lineup of masters.
And WAD? Don't know that one.

As I said before, if someone is fielding two chapter masters, and 2 honor guards... those should be a couple of nasty deathstars, but it's going to be eating up a huge portion of the list.

It's a bit of a fluff-change, actually; in 4th Edition, the Chapter Master was the boss hog, and the various Captains just had secondary responsibilities. They were never referred to as Chapter Masters.

Now, apparently, anyone with 'Master' somewhere in their title is a Chapter Master.

BeRzErKeR wrote:It's a bit of a fluff-change, actually; in 4th Edition, the Chapter Master was the boss hog, and the various Captains just had secondary responsibilities. They were never referred to as Chapter Masters.

Now, apparently, anyone with 'Master' somewhere in their title is a Chapter Master.

Ah that might be why. I am still living in 4th ed
I prefer it there actually. Darker, and there was a nice guide on how to make bunkers.

BeRzErKeR wrote:It's a bit of a fluff-change, actually; in 4th Edition, the Chapter Master was the boss hog, and the various Captains just had secondary responsibilities. They were never referred to as Chapter Masters.

Now, apparently, anyone with 'Master' somewhere in their title is a Chapter Master.

There's also company masters though.
There are ten companies in a chapter, and one chapter master. So leading aside the stupidity of actually giving an OOB for these tiny fictional armies, I'm not sure how two Chapter Masters is possible...I mean, they're masters of the chapter. How can you have more than one?

BeRzErKeR wrote:It's a bit of a fluff-change, actually; in 4th Edition, the Chapter Master was the boss hog, and the various Captains just had secondary responsibilities. They were never referred to as Chapter Masters.
Now, apparently, anyone with 'Master' somewhere in their title is a Chapter Master.

What, really now? That's kind of ... dumb.

Lynata wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:It's a bit of a fluff-change, actually; in 4th Edition, the Chapter Master was the boss hog, and the various Captains just had secondary responsibilities. They were never referred to as Chapter Masters.
Now, apparently, anyone with 'Master' somewhere in their title is a Chapter Master.

What, really now? That's kind of ... dumb.

And that is why I still like 4th ed.

Lynata wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:It's a bit of a fluff-change, actually; in 4th Edition, the Chapter Master was the boss hog, and the various Captains just had secondary responsibilities. They were never referred to as Chapter Masters.
Now, apparently, anyone with 'Master' somewhere in their title is a Chapter Master.

What, really now? That's kind of ... dumb.

As far as I can tell. I agree, it's a bit strange.

4th ed marines were better than you think. Especially where each sarge could take terminator armor or artificer armor with feel no pain and dual thunder hammers (Yes it is possible)

Joey wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:It's a bit of a fluff-change, actually; in 4th Edition, the Chapter Master was the boss hog, and the various Captains just had secondary responsibilities. They were never referred to as Chapter Masters.

Now, apparently, anyone with 'Master' somewhere in their title is a Chapter Master.

There's also company masters though.
There are ten companies in a chapter, and one chapter master. So leading aside the stupidity of actually giving an OOB for these tiny fictional armies, I'm not sure how two Chapter Masters is possible...I mean, they're masters of the chapter. How can you have more than one?

If you need a fluff explanation:

Because sometimes other chapters will fight along side one another.

it is not unknown for the Crimson Fists to show up and fight a battle alongside the Ultramarines.

Asherian Command wrote:4th ed marines were better than you think. Especially where each sarge could take terminator armor or artificer armor with feel no pain and dual thunder hammers (Yes it is possible)

Even TAC marines?
That's odd, I don't recall ever having to face that.

It's not that strange.

The "generic" entries are not just for people with that specific title. They're what GW used to suggest as "templates" for your own homebrew characters.

A "Master" might not really be a Master in your army. He might be a member of Marneus Calgar's retinue who was sent to prepare the field with other members of the Honor Guard, or Shrike's second in command leading the anvil portion of a Raven Guard strike force into battle while Shrike leads the hammer.

Etc, etc.

DeathReaper wrote:

Joey wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:It's a bit of a fluff-change, actually; in 4th Edition, the Chapter Master was the boss hog, and the various Captains just had secondary responsibilities. They were never referred to as Chapter Masters.

Now, apparently, anyone with 'Master' somewhere in their title is a Chapter Master.

There's also company masters though.
There are ten companies in a chapter, and one chapter master. So leading aside the stupidity of actually giving an OOB for these tiny fictional armies, I'm not sure how two Chapter Masters is possible...I mean, they're masters of the chapter. How can you have more than one?

If you need a fluff explanation:

Because sometimes other chapters will fight along side one another.

it is not unknown for the Crimson Fists to show up and fight a battle alongside the Ultramarines.

...with their chapter masters?
Seems like that would be a massive risk of having the heads of two chapters wiped out in a single action.
Though if, as seems the case, "chapter master" is basically a pointless definition, then this is moot.
I don't get why you'd call someone "chapter master" if they weren't...master of a chapter.

Joey wrote:
Though if, as seems the case, "chapter master" is basically a pointless definition, then this is moot.
I don't get why you'd call someone "chapter master" if they weren't...master of a chapter.

Because homebrew Chapters do exist, and not everyone uses special characters as the basis for them.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:4th ed marines were better than you think. Especially where each sarge could take terminator armor or artificer armor with feel no pain and dual thunder hammers (Yes it is possible)

Even TAC marines?
That's odd, I don't recall ever having to face that.

on A veteran sarge he could equipt himself with artificer armor and if you took a certain trait he could be an apothecary with artificer armor dual thunderhammers which confers feel no pain to the entire squad. The + true grit +counter attack you have the blood angels on krak.
Veteran squads could all equipped themselves with power weapons. I once hit 17918pts with doing that. If only I could make them troop choices!
The old codex had it's high points. Mostly the traits part and everyone liked upgrading their captain to a master. Which had rites of battle. Which was fantastic
Tactical, Assualt, and Devastator Sarge's all the ability to take terminator honors which gave them access to the armory with +1 attack as well. So they could take terminator armor. It said nowhere in the codex you couldn't XD.

Bookwrack wrote:That's a pretty weak definition of 'broken.' I would love to have my opponent blow both of his HQ slots and at least 250 points for two OBs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joey wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:The issue is you're just not familiar with how chapters work. There are multiple chapter masters, such as the big guy like Calgar, the Master of the Fleet, etc.

This is more likely.
I assumed each chapter only had one master, is this not the case?
"You may include one honour guard squad for every Chapter Master in your army" so yeah it's WAD to have multiple chapter masters.

Here's GW's full lineup of masters.
And WAD? Don't know that one.

As I said before, if someone is fielding two chapter masters, and 2 honor guards... those should be a couple of nasty deathstars, but it's going to be eating up a huge portion of the list.

There is only one chapter master. That are Master of fleet, armoury ... anything but not the whole chapter.


But its possible to have two chapter master, when one chapter master is lost in the warp and returns after a new one was choosen.

Kanluwen wrote:

Joey wrote:
Though if, as seems the case, "chapter master" is basically a pointless definition, then this is moot.
I don't get why you'd call someone "chapter master" if they weren't...master of a chapter.

Because homebrew Chapters do exist, and not everyone uses special characters as the basis for them.

Yeah but why would a homebrew chapter have two Chapter Masters?

Joey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Joey wrote:
Though if, as seems the case, "chapter master" is basically a pointless definition, then this is moot.
I don't get why you'd call someone "chapter master" if they weren't...master of a chapter.

Because homebrew Chapters do exist, and not everyone uses special characters as the basis for them.

Yeah but why would a homebrew chapter have two Chapter Masters?

My chapter has three....
Some chapters have a council instead of just one chapter master.

Joey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Joey wrote:
Though if, as seems the case, "chapter master" is basically a pointless definition, then this is moot.
I don't get why you'd call someone "chapter master" if they weren't...master of a chapter.

Because homebrew Chapters do exist, and not everyone uses special characters as the basis for them.

Yeah but why would a homebrew chapter have two Chapter Masters?

You're sticking too much to the title.

Stop. The generic characters, even with specific titles like "Chapter Master" are templates. They're representative of characters equal to the title.

A Chapter Master isn't necessarily one.

Joey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Joey wrote:
Though if, as seems the case, "chapter master" is basically a pointless definition, then this is moot.
I don't get why you'd call someone "chapter master" if they weren't...master of a chapter.

Because homebrew Chapters do exist, and not everyone uses special characters as the basis for them.

Yeah but why would a homebrew chapter have two Chapter Masters?

Suppose the Chapter in question has a slightly different command structure and they have a Chapter Council or something, with every member being a Chapter Master. Not all Chapters have a supreme leader.

Kanluwen wrote:[You're sticking too much to the title.

Stop. The generic characters, even with specific titles like "Chapter Master" are templates. They're representative of characters equal to the title.

A Chapter Master isn't necessarily one.

I would disagree there. There is nothing in the Codex that suggests that the Chapter Master entry is supposed to represent anything other than a Chapter Master.

However, there is no more problem taking two of them in your army than there is taking Marneus and Kantor. The second Master is obviously just from a different Chapter.

If you don't personally like the idea of having two different Chapter Masters present in a relatively small battle (ignoring the usual disclaimer that as explained by the studio at times in the past, a 40K battle isn't necessarily representing the whole fight, just a snapshot of one corner of it) then the answer is simple: don't take two Chapter Masters in small lists.

Here's a link to the GW Unit:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1060070&_requestid=1963673

"On occasion, when the might of the Chapter is drawn up in a single confrontation, the headquarters staff will fight together as one, near-unstoppable squad with an unrivalled mix of tactical acumen, advanced weaponry and elite weaponry."

Joey wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:It's a bit of a fluff-change, actually; in 4th Edition, the Chapter Master was the boss hog, and the various Captains just had secondary responsibilities. They were never referred to as Chapter Masters.

Now, apparently, anyone with 'Master' somewhere in their title is a Chapter Master.

There's also company masters though.
There are ten companies in a chapter, and one chapter master. So leading aside the stupidity of actually giving an OOB for these tiny fictional armies, I'm not sure how two Chapter Masters is possible...I mean, they're masters of the chapter. How can you have more than one?

Well theres supreme grand masters and stuff. I mean is Mordrak a Grand Master and Draigo a Supreme Grand Master. I know in the DA codex Azrael is Supreme grand master, but theres still a chaper master entry.

Billagio wrote:Well theres supreme grand masters and stuff. I mean is Mordrak a Grand Master and Draigo a Supreme Grand Master. I know in the DA codex Azrael is Supreme grand master, but theres still a chaper master entry.

Different Chapters have different names for the same thing. Azrael is the Chapter Master of the Dark Angels. Hw just has his own title, since Dark Angels company commanders are referred to as Masters rather than Captains.