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Having trouble beating Dark Eldar since the new Necron Codex was released.

With all its short ranged firepower you might get one good turn of shooting and then they will be in an Assault with you (which never ends well unless its with Lychguard).

I don't really buy the whole 'Writhing Worldscape' combined with Trasmogrification Cyrpteks. So what if one in three Raiders I hit will be Immobilised? I need to kill more than that each turn our else my Necrons are toast.

It seems to me the best thing in the Necron Codex for popping their vehicles is the Annihilation Barge, but with a 24" range I'll have to be within 18" of him to shoot it. So even if I destroy it theres a good chance they'll still Assault me (2" Disembark, 6" move, Fleet, 6" Assault).

To give you a basic idea of what my regular opponent uses:

Lord with Inqubi on a Raider.

2 units of Wyches on Raiders.

2 units of Wracks with Haemonculi (2 x Liquifier Guns) on Raiders.

2 units of Trueborn on Venoms.

3 Ravagers.

If you could use anything from the Necron Codex (including things that havn't been released yet), what would you take to destroy this many Raiders?

Maybe i'd play Tesla Spam. Yes Tesla is AP-, but his vehicles are open-topped, so it balance out.

Or Wraiths. Yeah Wraiths seem good.

If your opponents are open to proxies for the time being I would suggest Scythe Spam. Most of my games so far have been against DE and it's just brutal. CC just isn't an issue when your opponent is hitting on 6's and you can just keep running away. Tesla is also great vs their vehicles. At 1850 I run 2 CC Barges, 5 Night Scythes and 2 Doom Scythes. Works like a charm.

The best way to handle Mech DE is to kill the transports, preferably waaaaay over there. Too bad you can't really get any good long ranged guns as Necrons.

So that leaves 24" guns. And rapid fire won't cut it on infantry. So Tesla, and maybe Destroyers or Tomb Blades. Gauss Tomb Blades might be pretty good, as 5/4 is a fair threat against a Raider. You also need some fast moving melee, to jump on dismounted units nearby and/or cover your own shooters, and some fast moving/teleporting shooting troops to harass Ravagers.

I can't help but think this will be a very hard fight. Dark Lances out-range you, so he can take your vehicles apart from outside your own range and if you advance you are going to eat charges. In fact, you are likely to eat charges regardless so plan for that. The goal is to break them up by stunning, immobilizing, or killing some transports. If he lacks templates (don't remember exactly what a Liquifier does) a big Flayed One unit might work. They'd eat a charge, but I don't think one unit could break 20 FO unless it was the HQ unit. So as long as you prevent a double team they might work.

Also, DE are one of the few armies that those relatively worthless Lightning Crypteks may be good against. AP - hits actually threaten DE bodies.

Perhaps an investment in Heavy Destroyers? Sure, they're a wee bit expensive points wise for what they are, but the heavy gauss cannon's 36" should help smooth things out a bit. Not to mention, of course, the S9 AP2 which could easily pop DE vehicles.
Other than that, just shoot them before they go into CC, I guess.

It's sort of frustrating to think of Heavy destroyers as an answer to Raiders... given they are such similar units. Not to mention how much cheaper a Ravager is compared to 3 Heavy Destroyers.

You are also very vulnerable to bulk poison shots. It seems like playing an "answers" game isn't really going to work, as the shooting options they have so readily available, and well distributed, are good against the exploits against each other.

I understand that, even with their senses, nightfighting is still pretty relevant. I have also heard that imhotek, with a chronotek for rerolls does very well with his lightning strikes against their transports.

Tesla spam looks like fun too, just make sure you have a way to deal with your troops disappearing back to reserves. phased reinforcements and monoliths can help... You will have an easier time staying out of blaster range, but those lances really wound your board position if you don't have a way to move your men around besides the scythes.

Defensive grenades will help you take charges a bit better.
Tesla or particle fire will take any squad apart if you have any shooting left in range once you pop it's ride.

Anything with a Tesla Destructor, will make short work of any DE vehicle. All of them are Twin Linked, and average at least 4 shots a piece. They work better on the Faster platforms, such as the Night and Doom Scythe.

Abarges are a great choice though.

I've only played a Dark Eldar player once so far, and it was a pretty tough match. Solar Pulses can help a lot, even with Night vision, it only does so much.

Lanceteks are great in this situation(Lanceteks are good in probably every situation lol), especially if you have them sprinkled in multiple squads.

Wraiths are Quick, and should be able to survive long enough to get into CC with whatever you want them do. They Ignore FNP on most Dark Eldar units as well, with their base Strength 6.

Wraiths and solar pulses do a really nice job!
It depends on how you run your crons. I played against them the other day and did fine. I don't have any vehicles in my list so it really hurts what dark eldar are good it. And remember, dark eldar die pretty easily. Our shooting does a good job of taking them out. When they shoot forward to attack, the best suggestion I have is concentrate fire. Take out a transport, then the unit, then move onto the next transport and the next unit. You'll do better if you have less troops assaulting you all at once.

I have to disagree with the general sentiment on Wraiths. They are a great unit and yes they have their strengths in this match-up with S6 ID'ing the T3 DE and they are extremely fast...but you have to be careful. Move too far ahead of your support units and they will get isolated and taken apart very quickly. Use them more as a counter-attack unit, coming in to support units that may get hit hard in cc. Remember that you are likely hitting any vehicles on 6's so it's just generally better to go afte the contents if possible. Crack open the paper planes with shooting first.

Also a few words on Heavy Destroyers. Not an efficient choice. Some lists may like them but this is a particularly bad match-up. If you are in range so are they. You may be T5 but Venoms don't care about that. Every loss is also a gun down and each Heavy Destroyer is almost the same cost as a single Venom. Harbingers of Destruction are a much better choice. Same range, much cheaper and can hide in squads. The difference in Strength is negligible when shooting at 90% AV10.

Speed is also useful. DE win battles by hitting a section hard and making it crumble. They have the mobility to outmanouevre most opponents and do this successfully. Vs Scythe spam this is a luxury they don't have. Not only do you have your own mobility but any flanking attacks they may perform means they are bunched up. Perfect for Tesla Arcs and lining up the Death Ray.

Last but not least is that DE rely on Pain tokens. Scythe Spam makes this even tougher for them. They don't get them for popping vehicles, your units go back into reserve when they are popped, and majority S7 ignores FnP on most of their units anyway.

Watch your opponent line his army up and cringe when playing VS Scythe Spam.

Wraiths are horrible against DE. A venom spam list can knock down 6 of them in a turn.

You want mobile firepower on vehicles, and you don't want to waste points on quantum shielding if you don't have to. Spam Night Scythes, Annihilation Barges, and dual-Cryptek warrior squads. Keep the squads embarked until your vehicles have knocked down some Venoms, and then when you have to start walking on from rerserves (because the Ravagers kill the Night Scythes), shoot your lances at the Ravagers. If there is a beast pack or something, Tesla weapons will absolutely slaughter them.

NeutronPoison wrote:Wraiths are horrible against DE. A venom spam list can knock down 6 of them in a turn.
them.

this is why you play them smart and use cover.
to op: tesla man. Its fun stuff

Cover makes no difference to Wraiths. Their 3++ is better than any cover save you are going to find. Unless you are talking about blocking LoS completely, which I would imagine is hard to do. The size of the models (and unit) combined with the 12" move of DE venoms means you are going to have a hard time getting completely out of LoS.

yes los is what I meant.

I've not had a problem with DE.

Put your 'Crons in cover, take a seismic crucible.

I had Anrakyr on a tesla barge, upgraded some immortals, and had two annihilation barges.

My barges had underslung tesla. S6 insta-gibs and disallows FNP.

One match, he missed an assault into difficult terrain against a 15 strong unit of warriors with a seismic crucible. They opened up on that unit with 30 shots plus the template.

Another game, I managed 4 dead raiders in one turn. 2 by barges, one by a surfboard lord, another by 10 warriors with a destro cryptek.

Another match I managed to get 16 tesla hits from a squad of 10 immortals on some true born dudes in cover. They didn't like that so much. Wounding on 2's after-all.

Ya'lls crazy if you think Wraiths are terrible at killing DE. Wraiths are jump infantry, you that smart like and you'll be able to avoid venoms and capitalize on assaults. And the the thing you're not realizing is that a unit or two of wraiths make amazing distractions.

The Grog wrote:T
If he lacks templates (don't remember exactly what a Liquifier does) a big Flayed One unit might work. They'd eat a charge, but I don't think one unit could break 20 FO unless it was the HQ unit. So as long as you prevent a double team they might work.

Liquifiers are Str4 AP D6 Flamers
Shattershards are sniping remove from game toughness test flame templates
Razorwings aren't taken often but they shred large units with ordinance blasts.


I dont know, but can 20 flayed ones kill wyches fast enough or are they going to get tarpitted?

20 FO put out 3 attacks each at WS 4 S 4 with a 4+ save and RP. That's 60 A, 30 hits, 20 wounds, 10 casualties. Or .5 Wytch kills per FO, before weird gear that I don't remember exactly what they do.

FO don't kill anything fast, but they usually win after a few rounds. Unless a miracle happens and you get a charge off.

The Grog wrote:20 FO put out 3 attacks each at WS 4 S 4 with a 4+ save and RP. That's 60 A, 30 hits, 20 wounds, 10 casualties. Or .5 Wytch kills per FO, before weird gear that I don't remember exactly what they do.

FO don't kill anything fast, but they usually win after a few rounds. Unless a miracle happens and you get a charge off.

if the wyches have FNP it would be only 5 dead wyches which is good but not great for a unit that size. if the wyches kill 1-2 and the sarg gets 1 they wyches might not even break the first round. I dont know if I would take a big unit of 20 even if most DE dont take that many templates. Most at least take one and a bunch of models quickly becomes the best target out there.

You don't want a unit engaged by FO to break. FO can't catch anything. The point would be to absorb the enemy melee units one at a time using a unit that can eat the charges and not die.

Wraiths and Scarabs can do the first, but while harder to charge are much more likely to be wiped out by it.

Sasori wrote:Anything with a Tesla Destructor, will make short work of any DE vehicle. All of them are Twin Linked, and average at least 4 shots a piece. They work better on the Faster platforms, such as the Night and Doom Scythe.
Abarges are a great choice though.
I've only played a Dark Eldar player once so far, and it was a pretty tough match. Solar Pulses can help a lot, even with Night vision, it only does so much.
Lanceteks are great in this situation(Lanceteks are good in probably every situation lol), especially if you have them sprinkled in multiple squads.
Wraiths are Quick, and should be able to survive long enough to get into CC with whatever you want them do. They Ignore FNP on most Dark Eldar units as well, with their base Strength 6.

DE player here and Night Scythes scare me. Take as many as you can!

I wouldnt count on wraiths. A 3++ is just a 3+ to a splinter cannon and they are a little too expensive to be taking those kinds of hits. A few that hide behind transports for a counter charge might be nice but most of the heavy infantry are not gonna fare well against DE