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Before I begin I just want to say that I am not a Tyranid player. I've been keeping up with the rumors flying around about the new models since I love the look of the Tyranids. I was just flipping through the codex and I saw the Tyranofex. I have no idea if its worth its points. I've been thinking about it and I feel its over costed. Am I wrong? Is it worth a shot? What does Dakka think?

Is it amazing? No. Does it have issues? Yes. Is it better than people claim it is? Yes.

The T-fex isn't a bad unit in a shooting based Nids army. The shots can really help with overall lack of range of the army and it is a load in close combat. 2+ save makes it tough to take down for most missile spam lists. Like most Nids, it really is Jaws that makes it look worse than it is.

Its slightly overcosted but its still a very good unit which brings things to the table which Nids really need (something that can survive missile spam + long range shooting) which makes it a very competitive choice. I've found that the people who claim that its a terrible over-costed unit that you should never take also tend to be the same people who take 3 Trygons and wonder why they get blasted to pieces as they run at people and never seem to have enough anti tank ability. The other half of the problem is that people just see the 265pt 2 shot BS3 S10 gun and then manage to ignore all the rest of its abilities, its still an MC and can toss out 2 very solid anti infantry templates up close.

I used 2 in my gant farm list and never regretted it.

It's our only option for long range, heavy duty AT, and it can't be stunned or shaken. Not amazing, but it does work.

I use my 2 occasionally, but I'm more partial to Trygons in general and Venomthrope lists in particular, rather than a more generic list.

There are two reasons I don't run them in my lists.
1) They are BS 3. This means that if they put out two shots only one is going to hit. Then you still have to pen. And even if you pen you only have a 1/3 chance of destroying the vehicle.
2) They aren't synapse creatures which means you have to buy one that just sits there and baby sits you're T-fex(es).

Over all I really think that they don't have a place in any list that's even attempting to be semi-competitive.

DragonRider wrote:There are two reasons I don't run them in my lists.
1) They are BS 3. This means that if they put out two shots only one is going to hit. Then you still have to pen. And even if you pen you only have a 1/3 chance of destroying the vehicle.
2) They aren't synapse creatures which means you have to buy one that just sits there and baby sits you're T-fex(es).

Over all I really think that they don't have a place in any list that's even attempting to be semi-competitive.

I second this.

Against the right army T-fexes are pretty good.

Ork horde for example, when you have him rigged as a template monster (pos with hive).

Against marines, not so much.

If you're dedicating a synapse unit to baby-sitting your tyrannofex then you're doing it wrong. The T-fex should be advancing forward with the rest of your army.

They're good, I use them fairly regularly. They're very reliable anti-tank and are a beatstick in combat/close-range anti-infantry as well. But they have 2 big weaknesses:
-BS3 really sucks, if they were BS4 I'd say that they'd be a no-brainer
-Lack of synapse means you might lose some control over them if you don't have something nearby (maybe Warriors camping a backfield objective)

SInce my primary army has BS 2, with a little bs 3... BS 3 is supposedly the average for the game, Mareenz notwithstanding

you have a 2 shot BS 3 S 10 antitank gun. One of the two will hit on average. At least you HAVE a reliably S10 gun

Template weapons don't need to roll to hit, so you're good there.

Borer hive (? ) fires so many shots you're going to hit something.

If Orks had a squiggoth with the T-Fex rules and cost i would happily take one.

They're amazing, in short - it's sort of like a twin linked S10 gun that also has a chance to hit twice! The 2+ template is also very useful, and if you don't like it, you can switch it out to a S5 one. Still not satisfied? OK, take a rending template instead.

Oh, by the way, have a S5 large blast, too. Those can come in handy.

These monsters are shockingly tough, too - the toughness, multitude of wounds, and armour save make for a real beast.

I can't stop raving about the acid spray, as well. I've found it to be very useful for aggressive play - the lack of scatter combined with the high strength really decimates infantry. In short, I take one whenever I can afford it.

DragonRider wrote:There are two reasons I don't run them in my lists.
1) They are BS 3. This means that if they put out two shots only one is going to hit. Then you still have to pen. And even if you pen you only have a 1/3 chance of destroying the vehicle.
2) They aren't synapse creatures which means you have to buy one that just sits there and baby sits you're T-fex(es).

Over all I really think that they don't have a place in any list that's even attempting to be semi-competitive.

I agree BS3 is a pain, with BS4 or a 20pt price drop there is no doubt we would see them more, but either way after the surprisingly squishy Hive Guard they are the best anti tank units in the codex. Your alternatives are either incredibly unreliable (Zoanthropes, pretty fail vs Psychic defence, inaccurate, easiest of all the options to kill), don't hit very hard (Venom Cannons, the -1 sucks) or you are stuck trying to kill things in combat, which is far from ideal for a number of reasons. S10 is going to pen most vehicles on a 2-3, basically you average a damage result per turn from Turn 1 since you have 48" range, which is pretty solid.

Why do you even need to babysit it? It seems like a large number of Nid players have carried over the importance of Synapse from the last book where in the current book its really not that limiting for the vast majority of units (aside from being Fearless). For starters, as people have pointed out, your Tyrannofexes should be advancing with the rest of your army, if for instance you are facing a missile spam list they should really be out in front early on giving cover to your 3+ save MCs. Getting up close gives you another MC to threaten people with, and if required you can act as a rare shooting horde control unit (most Nid anti horde comes from assaulting) with a template weapon and a large blast (which you can fire at the same time). If you manage to lose all your Synapse then it makes very little difference, for starters you are Ld8, the majority of the time you are going to stay in full control anyway. More importantly its Instinctive Behaviour is Lurk, which on a primarily shooting based unit is fine since you walk towards terrain but can still shoot anything.

Basically I would say the complete opposite is true from what you are suggesting. Any Nid list which expects to compete in any kind of competitive environment is going to be running a couple of Tyrannofexes as they really help counteract the main weaknesses of common Nid lists. Tbh the only real alternatives are triple Trygons (which have been tried and generally found wanting in top level play) or Carnifexes (passable in a Deathstar build).

DragonRider wrote:There are two reasons I don't run them in my lists.
1) They are BS 3. This means that if they put out two shots only one is going to hit. Then you still have to pen. And even if you pen you only have a 1/3 chance of destroying the vehicle.
2) They aren't synapse creatures which means you have to buy one that just sits there and baby sits you're T-fex(es).

Over all I really think that they don't have a place in any list that's even attempting to be semi-competitive.

As opposed to all those Nid lists that don't have T-Fexes in them that are winning all those tournaments right?

Sorry, I just think comments like this betray fundamental misunderstanding on how the unit should be played in the first place. Just to reiterate what has been said...T-Fex != Broadsides, Strength 10 gun not withstanding.

If your holding back with them:

Powerguy wrote:More importantly its Instinctive Behaviour is Lurk, which on a primarily shooting based unit is fine since you walk towards terrain but can still shoot anything.

Not really. Lurk means you have to shoot the closest target. I'd hate to waste rupture cannon shots on some Ork Boys that are 1" closer than that Deff Rolla Battlewagon that's about to run over my Tyrant.

rigeld2 wrote:

Powerguy wrote:More importantly its Instinctive Behaviour is Lurk, which on a primarily shooting based unit is fine since you walk towards terrain but can still shoot anything.

Not really. Lurk means you have to shoot the closest target. I'd hate to waste rupture cannon shots on some Ork Boys that are 1" closer than that Deff Rolla Battlewagon that's about to run over my Tyrant.

The T-Fex should be in Synapse range of the Tyrant (or something else) anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also wanted to add, T-Fexes benefit from Onslaught more then just about any other unit in the Dex.

But OMG what about Catalyst you say..its my favourite!

Well, you can still have both, and only use the Onslaught for the first couple turns.

And of course you can have a couple of Tervi's , one to Catalyst your most precious possession while the other Ons the T-Fex.

Onslaught and Regen him and throw a venomthrope behind him, make him threatening and grin as he eats large swathes of fire power.

rigeld2 wrote:

Powerguy wrote:More importantly its Instinctive Behaviour is Lurk, which on a primarily shooting based unit is fine since you walk towards terrain but can still shoot anything.

Not really. Lurk means you have to shoot the closest target. I'd hate to waste rupture cannon shots on some Ork Boys that are 1" closer than that Deff Rolla Battlewagon that's about to run over my Tyrant.

And if you want to assault something, you can't if it fails its IB test.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Powerguy wrote:More importantly its Instinctive Behaviour is Lurk, which on a primarily shooting based unit is fine since you walk towards terrain but can still shoot anything.

Not really. Lurk means you have to shoot the closest target. I'd hate to waste rupture cannon shots on some Ork Boys that are 1" closer than that Deff Rolla Battlewagon that's about to run over my Tyrant.

The T-Fex should be in Synapse range of the Tyrant (or something else) anyway.

.. Right. Powerguy was saying to not care about him being in Synapse - he's going to be just as effective.
Which isn't true.

While admittedly, he's a very good player with a very good list, but Hyv3mynd uses Tyrannofex's to good effect against competitive players in competitive environments:

http://synaps3.blogspot.com/search?q=Tyrannofex

I don't play 'nids, so I can't comment myself, but the above may provide some indication for potential usage.
At the least check out his beautiful army (no I don't work for him! ):

I think they are decent but mandatory in some lists. (Shooty nids.)

When designing nid army lists I often find it is an "all in". Other army lists are mutch more forgivable.

I think they are good against light armor such as a rhino or chimera but not reliable versus AV14 which is a shame seeing their rupture cannon is S10.

You do not use the tyranofex against rhino's. Stop trolling.

Even if you destroy one each turn, over 7 turns you would have only killed 275 points. It is not the rhino that destroys you, it is what is inside.

Every tyranid list needs an AV 14 plan. Then you have carnifexes, tervigons (with AG glands), zoanthropes and tyranofexes to choose from. Pick your poison.

The T-fex can be fantastic, when used correctly.

First thing to know: they are NOT a sit-back-and-shoot unit. They are the nose tackle of your Tyranid list - they should be plowing upfield, trying to smash into enemy units, clog up their shooting/advancing lanes, and locking down anything crucial until something faster & more nimble gets there to help.

And, while they're doing this, they have a 2-shot S10 gun to fire at the odd vehicle.

The T-fex works best in "bowling ball" style Tyranid lists, where a bunch of fairly slow-moving tyranids (Tervigons, Hive Guard, perhaps the Swarmlord if you're feeling nasty) move to the middle of the board, control it, and win the game from there (supported by the various diverse deployment tricks the rest of the army brings - gargoyles for mobility, infiltrating/outflanking 'stealers to constrain deployment & movement, Ymgarls or podding elements to influence early game actions).

Yes, we could wish it was cheaper than 265 pts. But even priced like a land raider, it's still a useful component of my most successful builds.

I think a lot of people tend to set the T-fex on the backline and keep it there. I like your strategy.

-666- wrote:I think a lot of people tend to set the T-fex on the backline and keep it there. I like your strategy.

^^^ And I think that's exactly the root of the interweb disdain for this guy. Used correctly he can go into beast mode (pun...well intended) ).

I still like Trygons a whole lot better.

So the general consent seems to be that the Tyrannofex is worth it as a screen for other Nids which sounds about right to me since it is incredibly tough for a Monstrous Creature. Would one Tyrannofex be enough to create a screen though or would 2 be a viable option as well? I'm tempted to put together a list with 2 of these bad boys in it.

Two are a lot of points or one army. I'd start with one and see how that works out for you.

The reason I mentioned running two of them is because in 40k running only one of a model usually isn't a good idea so running multiples makes that one model many times more obnoxious for your opponent. I agree about it being a lot of points especially if you are running a Hive Tyrant or Swarmlord in the list as well.

Red Comet wrote:So the general consent seems to be that the Tyrannofex is worth it as a screen for other Nids which sounds about right to me since it is incredibly tough for a Monstrous Creature. Would one Tyrannofex be enough to create a screen though or would 2 be a viable option as well? I'm tempted to put together a list with 2 of these bad boys in it.

Obviously it depends on the points size we are talking about, but 2 is always better than one (this holds for basically everything in 40k) and at 2000+ 3 is certainly viable. Redundancy is part of the equation, but its also going to be pretty hard to screen your other MCs with only one Tyrannofex since both you and your opponent are going to be constantly moving to change the angles often leaving you in positions impossible to cover. When you factor in good deployment i.e fire support units in each corner rather than all together which forces you to split up and you are going to find it very hard to cover yourself.

One of the strongest Nid lists I have seen was basically 2 Tyrannoxfexes, 2 Carnifexes + 2 Primes, 2 Tervigons and 9 Hive Guard. The Tyrannofexes cover the Tervigons, who spit out Gaunts everywhere to give cover to the Carnifex unit + Hive Guard (which in turn can cover the Tyrannofexes if you are worried about them). All the big stuff rumbles up the field in one big block which no one really wants to fight (proper use of Gaunts and Shadows will let the Carnifex unit beat even a Paladinstar if they get the charge) and you have about as much shooting as you can pack into a Nid list to back it up.