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So I've been reading the Horus Heresy books and I've learned a lot about the primarchs. Each one is pretty impressive and the books really flesh out their personalities. I really like Ferrus Manus and was sad when Fulgrim killed him. This lead me to read into what will eventually happened to the primarchs. All the traitor primarchs seem to be alive in one form or another (I know Angron was banished back to the warp but like most demons he probably isn't completely destroyed and will eventually return) and the Loyalist primarchs are either dead or disappeared.

First, why don't the demon primarchs attack more often. A primarch is amazing but a demon primarch is even more powerful. Regular demons seem to be limitless so why aren't more demon primarchs just making huge pushes into the Imperium? They don't seem to show up very often.

Second, do you think any of the Loyalist primarchs? Their seems to be a lot of legends and rumors that the primarchs (even the dead ones) aren't really dead but will return when some certain criteria is met. And if they are still alive, what have they been doing? Has Russ just been flying around the Eye of Terror. I haven't read any other books where a warp entity or chaos space marine mentions that the primarchs are doing this.

As overpowered as they are, I wouldn't mind seeing more primarchs in the books that take place post-heresy or even in the game. Primarch HQs?

Mr. Emprah keeps all the demons out of the materium mostly, so it's tough for them to get in.
Also they'd be a bit too strong for tabletop play I'd assume, but fluff-wise, some (at least 1) should still be out doing stuff and not MIA or pretty much dead honestly. GW is weird about that

[quote=shamroll
First, why don't the demon primarchs attack more often. A primarch is amazing but a demon primarch is even more powerful. Regular demons seem to be limitless so why aren't more demon primarchs just making huge pushes into the Imperium? They don't seem to show up very often.

I thought Daemon Princes had somewhat more of a will of their own than just the Daemons. Same goes for the Greater Daemons; still unable to disobey their God but with a little more free will the higher they are.

The traitor primarchs seem to be, with a few exceptions, no longer interested in the material realm. Lorgar is meditating, Perturabo is sulking, Mortarion has been banished by Draigo, Angron has been banished by Brother Captain Aurelian ( feck you Matt Ward for exluding the possibly best Grey Knights story from the damn new codex ), Fulgrim is no longer quite himself ( and rumoured to reside in his personal boobs and pain paradise...), Horus is dead, Curze is currently lacking his head, Alpharius is Alpharius, and Magnus, well, no idea what Magnus is currently doing ( playing chess with Tzeentch?).

I thought with regard to traitor primarchs they no longer attack the imperium as they werent able to sustainthe level of power they have outside the eye.

The primarchs typically only come out for big events, such as black crusades, or to inflict revenge on their rival chapters.
The question boils down though, to why bother? Theyve got eternal life, power, knowledge, and everything they could ever wants, while ruling over their own personal world. What more could they stand to gain by attacking humanity?
The only reasons are really revenge, which by now has been mostly taken care of, and bloodlust (understandable for primarchs such as Angron).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingDeath wrote:The traitor primarchs seem to be, with a few exceptions, no longer interested in the material realm. Lorgar is meditating, Perturabo is sulking, Mortarion has been banished by Draigo, Angron has been banished by Brother Captain Aurelian ( feck you Matt Ward for exluding the possibly best Grey Knights story from the damn new codex ), Fulgrim is no longer quite himself ( and rumoured to reside in his personal boobs and pain paradise...), Horus is dead, Curze is currently lacking his head, Alpharius is Alpharius, and Magnus, well, no idea what Magnus is currently doing ( playing chess with Tzeentch?).

Magnus was banished in an attack on the space wolves, but currently rules over his personal planet (albight filled with only the ghostly remains of thousand sons).

Most of them pledged themselves to one particular chaos god. And in the realm of chaos, the war with the other chaos gods take a higher precedence. So, as the fuff says, they seem to be more interested fighting each other in the warp than fighting the imperium of man.

Chaos don't usually unite to fight the imperium. Unless special events like black crusades or against the Emperor. Also, once you become a daemon prince, you are far more powerful in the warp, but outside the warp, your form may not be sustainable for long. That's why they are all content to stay within the warp. Its the only place with enough warp energies to sustain them.

They are a shadow of their true power outside of the warp.

DarknessEternal wrote:

shamroll wrote:
First, why don't the demon primarchs attack more often. A primarch is amazing but a demon primarch is even more powerful. Regular demons seem to be limitless so why aren't more demon primarchs just making huge pushes into the Imperium? They don't seem to show up very often.

Daemons are part of their chaos god. They don't have free will. They only act by what humanity projects into them.

Daemons are. Daemons Princes, on the other hand, retain their will from when they were mortal. They are their own being. The reason they don't leave the Warp very often is because a powerful daemon (or daemon prince) requires an incredible amount of energy to sustain its presence in the real world. And of course, most of them just aren't bothered, they have more fun in the Eye.

I would say Greater Daemons have some form of free will, even the lesser Daemons do to a degree, look at Skarbrand for example.

They can act of their own accord.

KingDeath wrote:The traitor primarchs seem to be, with a few exceptions, no longer interested in the material realm. Lorgar is meditating, Perturabo is sulking, Mortarion has been banished by Draigo, Angron has been banished by Brother Captain Aurelian ( feck you Matt Ward for exluding the possibly best Grey Knights story from the damn new codex ), Fulgrim is no longer quite himself ( and rumoured to reside in his personal boobs and pain paradise...), Horus is dead, Curze is currently lacking his head, Alpharius is Omegan, and Magnus, well, no idea what Magnus is currently doing ( playing chess with Tzeentch?).

Fixed

I would say daemons have free will, but always do as theynare told

They act only in accordance with their aspect. That aspect is defined by the sentient, psychic races.

shamroll wrote:First, why don't the demon primarchs attack more often.

They are afraid of Draigo.

Angron is the only daemon Primarch who got his sh*t together and did a good day's work after the Horus Heresy, because the entire 'Blood for the Blood God' thing needs blood to pull off - hence the Dominion of Fire (M38 - Angron and 50,000 Khorne Berzerkers slaughtered their way through Imperial space for two centuries) and then the First War of Armageddon he eventually got his ass handed to him by Grey Knights.

The rest are either brooding/sulking or just generally satisfied with their daemonic worlds/prizes. Except for Alpharius of course, but who knows what goes on in his mind?

As for the loyalists, Ferrus Manus, Rogal Dorn and Sanguinus are all dead, Gulliman is technically not dead but is on show in a stasis field to stop Fulgrim's poison from killing him, Lion El'Jonson is chilling in the centre of the Rock waiting to wake up and kick ass, Jaghatai Khan drove right into a collapsing webway - I bet he'll show up on a Craftworld or something one day and turn it into scrap, and then the other three are chilling out on a beach on a paradise world on the other side of the halo stars waiting for things to get bad enough to make their heroic return all that more awesome. Yes I'm counting Corax there too - they only say his craft was 'last seen' heading towards the eye of terror, he could have went off in search of booze for all we know.

And as for the daemons - they often have to compete with each other, this would distract them from going all gung-ho on the Imperium every two seconds. Plus the Slaaneshi daemons just want to make love, not war.

GoldenKaos wrote:Angron is the only daemon Primarch who got his sh*t together and did a good day's work after the Horus Heresy,

Yeah, because killing Guilliman was just another Tuesday for Fulgrim.

Durza wrote:

GoldenKaos wrote:Angron is the only daemon Primarch who got his sh*t together and did a good day's work after the Horus Heresy,

Yeah, because killing Guilliman was just another Tuesday for Fulgrim.

Didn't manage to finish him off though, did he?
Besides he's done nothing since, and yes, my wording says 'after HH' but considering how close to the end of the HH Fulgrim's activity was in comparison to Angron still kicking about in M38 and M41, he's been sitting on his serpentine tail a lot lately.

Magnus left the Eye of Terror to attack the Fang.

Mortarion left the Eye of Terror to have a Grey Knight scribble on his internal organs.

So... Angron is not the only one to do things. Just saying.

GoldenKaos wrote:

Durza wrote:

GoldenKaos wrote:Angron is the only daemon Primarch who got his sh*t together and did a good day's work after the Horus Heresy,

Yeah, because killing Guilliman was just another Tuesday for Fulgrim.

Didn't manage to finish him off though, did he?
Besides he's done nothing since, and yes, my wording says 'after HH' but considering how close to the end of the HH Fulgrim's activity was in comparison to Angron still kicking about in M38 and M41, he's been sitting on his serpentine tail a lot lately.

He is in his twisted version of paradise, in fairness. It's understandable he doesn't want to leave.

Durza wrote:
He is in his twisted version of paradise, in fairness. It's understandable he doesn't want to leave.

Is he, or is he screaming in imprisoned torment to the joy of a daemons ears?

I prefer the original fluff on this that would have the Fulgrim on his pleasure planet enjoying himself, like you say Durza.

Agreed, it would be a "happier" ending so to speak

Pilau Rice wrote:

Durza wrote:
He is in his twisted version of paradise, in fairness. It's understandable he doesn't want to leave.

Is he, or is he screaming in imprisoned torment to the joy of a daemons ears?

I prefer the original fluff on this that would have the Fulgrim on his pleasure planet enjoying himself, like you say Durza.

Isn't fulgrim stuck in the paradise While another daemon pretends to be him?

GoldenKaos wrote:...then the other three are chilling out on a beach on a paradise world on the other side of the halo stars ...

I would expect Vulkan to be under a volcano, pounding on a anvil like his namesake, but that works too

Void__Dragon wrote:Magnus left the Eye of Terror to attack the Fang.

Mortarion left the Eye of Terror to have a Grey Knight scribble on his internal organs.

So... Angron is not the only one to do things. Just saying.

Magnus has come out of the closet a couple of times to get his ass handed to him by the wolves, actually

Daemons cannot keep their form in the Material Realm without huge amounts of power or a convenient warp storm. See Angron's actions in the First War for Armageddon.

And we have no clue what they are doing in the Eye really. Lorgar could be up in that tower dead to rights for all we know. Perty is probably sulking about how he gets nothing written about him.

Warboss Gideon wrote:Also they'd be a bit too strong for tabletop play I'd assume

It's make an awesome Apoc battle.

You can have 10k points, with superheavies.

I'll have Russ.