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Ive been running this for a few weeks and I have a local tournament coming up and Im looking for any critiques.

Duke

3x3 trueborn w/ blasters. Raider w/ FF , DL and TGL
9 warriors 1 sybarite w/ blast pistol, 1 w/ blaster in raider w/ FF, DL and TGL
5x5 warriors 1 w/ blaster, 1 sybarite with blast pistol venom w/ extra splinter cannon
2x razorwing jetfighters TL splinter rifle, Monoscythe missiles (x4), disintegrator cannonsx2
ravager DLx3, FF

comes in right at 1999.

I enjoy how the list plays so im not really interested in like dropping units of warriors for reavers or somesuch.

What kind of critique would you like since changing units is out of the question?

Well if you can see how the list plays and make suggestions based on that then cool. By changing units out I mean completely changing how the list plays

My biggest concern with the list is that there isn't much AT. This list would pound hordes to a pulp, but is going to suffer horribly against a mech heavy list.

Also, being a pure shooty army, you can get in a bind when facing someone that has to get in close to wreck vehicles. A solid countercharge unit that can tarpit and buy you some time for movement can really turn the tide in your favor if they're able to get in your face fast enough.

I would suggest dropping at least one of the Razorwings, preferably both, in favor of Ravagers for more AT. I t would then drop the 9x man warrior squad for a squad of Wyches 10x strong w/ haywire nades, Hydragauntlets, and Hekatrix w/ agoniser in a raider w/ FF.

The Wyches could be played one of two ways. 1 - keep them back, out of the fighting, using the DL to shoot from range, but close enough to jump forward and throw the wyches at a closing assault squad. The wyches should tie just about anything up for 2 rounds min. The wych weapon and agonizer give it a better shot to win out. Option 2 - Shoot the wyches forward turn 1. Nothing says slow up like some wyches in your face. If they're within assault distance, assault turn 1. If not, flat out for the cover save and try to hide the raider from los. They better be in cc by turn 2 or they're dead. The haywire grenades are in case you get in a fight with a really mech heavy list that you're having trouble popping tanks. The wyches can glance a tank to death with enough haywire grenades. "Do Not Assault Transports with Wyches". They may pop the transport, but the wyches will die the following round. Tanks are worth it, transports are cheap and get you killed.

The Duke is meh. Preferably a Haemonculus to ride w/ wyches, in which case you would have to drop their number to 9x models total.

Not original by any means, but it will fill the holes in your army.

Your army doesn't make a lot of use of the Duke's abilities. I suppose him being with a warrior squad is alright, but it'd be better if it were like 9 bare bones warriors in a raider with splinter racks. This gives them 18 shots re-rolling to hit, and then wounding on a 3 as per the Duke.
You make no use at all of the combat drugs ability...which is kinda bad. As said by some above, some wyches could be good, as would hellions and maybe even reavers. The Duke costs what he does for the special things he does and if you don't have a list that makes good use of that, you'd be better served using a Haemonculous or a basic Archon.

Just my 2 cents...if you're going to take a special HQ, take him for a reason. Make his cost count and what he does synergise with your list.

Thanks all for your time in looking at my list.

However...when you say there isnt enough AT, you realize I've got 29 darklight shots, right? After playing a few more games I will take your wych squad into consideration, Im sure I can dump a warrior squad and scrounge up the points somewhere. Just not sure if its going to be worth the investment.

In response to Doomface, my entire army makes use of the duke's ability to deepstrike. Ive stuck him in a unit of 9 other warriors so they can use his 3+ poison. The only thing thats not being used to the fullest is his drug ability and Im perfectly ok with that. This statement right here makes no sense "I suppose him being with a warrior squad is alright, but it'd be better if it were like 9 bare bones warriors in a raider with splinter racks. This gives them 18 shots re-rolling to hit, and then wounding on a 3 as per the Duke." Hes already in a squad of 9 warriors lol. Splinter racks are worthless how I play because you cant shoot from the vehicle on the turn you DS in.

I would strongly suggest switching the dissies on the razorwings to lances.

Also, drop the 4 Torment Grenade Launchers to give the Razorwings Flickerfield. (unsure what the real use of those are here, the -1 at 6" isn't that useful and I don't see it stopping much death, as people aren't THAT likely to assault your raiders, and flickerfields on your razorwings will make them that much more survivable.)

Also, the sybarite and blast pistol is a waste of points. The blast pistol is 15pts for something that's only useful at 6", and if you're at 6", you're either assaulting with a unit that probably shouldnt be, or about to get assaulted.

I would drop the sybarite and blast pistol, and probably the blaster, and put in a splinter cannon on that unit. This frees up another 30 points to play with (I'd personally give the Razorwings Splinter Cannons, not sure what to do with the last 10pts).

I come up up with 24 DL shots. 2 of which are a 6" range and might fire once in the game.

You could get to 28, by converting the disintegrators back to dark lances on the razorwings.
Turn 1, if you're deepstriking, then you're only firing 7 of those, unless you're also disembarking transport occupants, which will get you killed quick, but lets you fire everything.

You can double check my numbers.
Duke - 1dl

3x3 trueborn w/ blasters. Raider w/ FF , DL and TGL - 12dl
9 warriors 1 sybarite w/ blast pistol, 1 w/ blaster in raider w/ FF, DL and TGL -3dl
5x5 warriors 1 w/ blaster, venom w/ extra splinter cannon - 5dl
2x razorwing jetfighters TL splinter rifle, Monoscythe missiles (x4), disintegrator cannonsx2 - 0dl potential of 4
ravager DLx3, FF - 3dl

The list isn't bad bad or anything. If it works for you, then use it as is. It obviously fits your style of play and if you can make it work, go for it. Post back here though and let us know how you did in the tournament. A batrep or three would be great.

@Ovion. He can't take a spl cannon with the "9x" warriors and still put the Duke with them. Has to have 10 models in the squad for the weapon. Agreed on the TGL's. I missed that.

ThePhish wrote:I come up up with 24 DL shots. 2 of which are a 6" range and might fire once in the game.

You could get to 28, by converting the disintegrators back to dark lances on the razorwings.
Turn 1, if you're deepstriking, then you're only firing 7 of those, unless you're also disembarking transport occupants, which will get you killed quick, but lets you fire everything.

You can double check my numbers.
Duke - 1dl

3x3 trueborn w/ blasters. Raider w/ FF , DL and TGL - 12dl
9 warriors 1 sybarite w/ blast pistol, 1 w/ blaster in raider w/ FF, DL and TGL -3dl
5x5 warriors 1 w/ blaster, venom w/ extra splinter cannon - 5dl
2x razorwing jetfighters TL splinter rifle, Monoscythe missiles (x4), disintegrator cannonsx2 - 0dl potential of 4
ravager DLx3, FF - 3dl

The list isn't bad bad or anything. If it works for you, then use it as is. It obviously fits your style of play and if you can make it work, go for it. Post back here though and let us know how you did in the tournament. A batrep or three would be great.

@Ovion. He can't take a spl cannon with the "9x" warriors and still put the Duke with them. Has to have 10 models in the squad for the weapon. Agreed on the TGL's. I missed that.

Thanks for taking the time to have a look!

In regards to the darklight shots you have 9 from the trueborn, 1 from each raider (4), 1 from each blaster in each warrior squad (6), 3 from the ravager. 22 right there. 7 more blast pistols = 29. I concede that the pistols may or maynot be as useful as the others but they are still there.

So far Ive won 4 out of the last 5 games with this list. Last nights loss was against vanilla marines with shrike. I lost because of sloppy play toward the end. It was 3 objectives, we each claimed 1 and I didnt realize the immobilized rhino that was sitting on the 3rd had troops in it. If I had known that I would have devoted more shots to it and tried to blow them off the table, like I said just bad play on my part.

Edit- I forgot to list the sybarite in the venom squads with blast pistols, sorry! Thats where the confusion is from.

jb7090 wrote:

ThePhish wrote:I come up up with 24 DL shots. 2 of which are a 6" range and might fire once in the game.

You could get to 28, by converting the disintegrators back to dark lances on the razorwings.
Turn 1, if you're deepstriking, then you're only firing 7 of those, unless you're also disembarking transport occupants, which will get you killed quick, but lets you fire everything.

You can double check my numbers.
Duke - 1dl

3x3 trueborn w/ blasters. Raider w/ FF , DL and TGL - 12dl
9 warriors 1 sybarite w/ blast pistol, 1 w/ blaster in raider w/ FF, DL and TGL -3dl
5x5 warriors 1 w/ blaster, venom w/ extra splinter cannon - 5dl
2x razorwing jetfighters TL splinter rifle, Monoscythe missiles (x4), disintegrator cannonsx2 - 0dl potential of 4
ravager DLx3, FF - 3dl

The list isn't bad bad or anything. If it works for you, then use it as is. It obviously fits your style of play and if you can make it work, go for it. Post back here though and let us know how you did in the tournament. A batrep or three would be great.

@Ovion. He can't take a spl cannon with the "9x" warriors and still put the Duke with them. Has to have 10 models in the squad for the weapon. Agreed on the TGL's. I missed that.

Thanks for taking the time to have a look!

In regards to the darklight shots you have 9 from the trueborn, 1 from each raider (4), 1 from each blaster in each warrior squad (6), 3 from the ravager. 22 right there. 7 more blast pistols = 29. I concede that the pistols may or maynot be as useful as the others but they are still there.

So far Ive won 4 out of the last 5 games with this list. Last nights loss was against vanilla marines with shrike. I lost because of sloppy play toward the end. It was 3 objectives, we each claimed 1 and I didnt realize the immobilized rhino that was sitting on the 3rd had troops in it. If I had known that I would have devoted more shots to it and tried to blow them off the table, like I said just bad play on my part.

Edit- I forgot to list the sybarite in the venom squads with blast pistols, sorry! Thats where the confusion is from.

So there's a sybarite in the 5x warrior squads with a blast pistol?? That seems like a lot of wasted points. You're essentially paying 25 points for +1LD and a 6" range DL shot. Especially considering the fact that your blaster is 18" range, and your spl. cannons can be 36"+ away from what they're shooting at.

It's definitely a risky list, but if it works out for you and you can play it well, then go for it. My 2k list has 26 DL shots, all 18+ range, 16 haywire grenades and 2 squads of beast packs that have a total of 30 S3 rending attacks, and 40 S4 attacks on the charge. I still sweat mech heavy lists, and I don't deep strike, or reserve anything, so everything that's able to can fire turn 1. There's no way I can rely on just the DL shots for AT.

Edit: You may want to go back the first post and edit it to reflect the sybarites w/ blast pistol.

Again, Thephish thanks for the input.

So far im still kinda EEHHHHH about the sybarites with the blast pistols. With some clever pivoting of the raider or venom and good disembarking from it, I can usually get pretty damn close with the pistol. Random is random though so I will take your comment into consideration. Not sure what Id use the points for and still remain true to the list.

Your venom's splinter cannons have 36" range. Blasters have 18" range. This is there to allow you to be farther away while killing. Putting blast pistols in your squads contradicts that range capability, puts your units in unnecessary danger, and is very cost ineffective. My recommendation, drop all sybarites. this gives you 150 points. drop TGL, another 20. switch the razorwings to ravagers (ok, razorwings have awesome models and are really fun to use but ravagers are simply most cost efficient. If this list is not meant to be competitive, then dont worry about dropping them and just give them their lances back and FF), thats another 60, drop the duke seeing as you're use for him is only using a few of his perks and deep striking DE armies are not as reliable, so thats another 150 points, switch the 9 man warrior squad into a 5 man in a venom which save another 41 points. With that in mind, you would then have an army worth 1548 points. I would then bump the trueborn squads up to 4 blasters each bringing you to 1629. You need an HQ, try the baron, he's cheap, fast, helps you go first, and compliments my next recommendation quite well. This would be a beast squad 3 beastmasters, 4 khymerae, and 4 razorwings is pretty standard and is only 144 points. with the leftover points, just get a second beast units, say, 2 beast masters, 2 razorwings, 5 khymerae?

Assuming you make the recommended changes, you would have 30 lance shots at 18"+ range which is 6 more than before, 2 competent assault units which is 2 more than before, and plenty of anti infantry via splinter stuff and assault units.

hope that helps.

It may sound kind of silly, but those 5x sybarites and the blast pistols are 135 points. throw in the sixth one and you're at 162 points.

The closest thing to your list, with the remaining foc slots would probably be a squad of 5x scourges w/ haywire blasters. They're good tank suppression units. They aren't going to kill a tank, but they can make it stop shooting for a round consistently and allow you to focus fire on other targets.

If not scourges, you could take a squad of beasts as a solid counterassault unit. 162 points could get you:

3x Beastmasters, 5x Khymera, 4x Razorwing flocks. 156 points

Just some ideas. No idea what models etc. you may have to play with, or how much time prior to the tournament. Beasts are the more expensive of the two by a long shot. Even using 'counts-as' models.

jb7090 wrote:Again, Thephish thanks for the input.

So far im still kinda EEHHHHH about the sybarites with the blast pistols. With some clever pivoting of the raider or venom and good disembarking from it, I can usually get pretty damn close with the pistol. Random is random though so I will take your comment into consideration. Not sure what Id use the points for and still remain true to the list.

I had blast Ps on my hekatrixes when I started DE. That lasted a month. If they were 12" range ...

Anyway, how about making this:
3x3 trueborn w/ blasters. Raider w/ FF , DL and TGL
into this?
3x4 trueborn w/ blasters. Raider w/ FF , DL and TGL.

Voila! 3 more medium-short range lance shots, and the structure of the army has hardly changed.

According to ThePhish,

ThePhish wrote:It may sound kind of silly, but those 5x sybarites and the blast pistols are 135 points. throw in the sixth one and you're at 162 points.

... you've got plenty of points to spare.

I have some primed BM models, I used the direwolves from the VC army and glued tyranid genestealer arms onto them and stuck em on 40mm bases to use as Khymera. For the razors I bought a couple packs of bat swarms and stuck 2 models onto a 40mm base. Came out very cheap and dont look half bad.

I appreciate everyones comments very much, Ill look into the BM squad next month I think, tournament is tomorrow and I have absolutely no practice with it. I will take your advice and drop the sybarites and pick up a unit of HWB scourges.

Good luck. Post back and let us know how you did.

I ended up 2 and 1 in the tourny and 3rd overall. A very good showing I felt.

The first mission was kill points, my opponent was playing a terminator list with Lysander walking across the board, Shrike deep striking with some assault terminators and 2 dev squads so I knew I couldent play KP denial and had to try to table him. In the end he had 4 non fleeing marines on the table while I still had about half my army but he won on KP's. Hes a friend of mine so we had a good time with it but be aware that KP missions will severely challenge you.

Second mission was against blood angels 4 objectives. From memory he had a bunch of terminators in a storm raven, sanguinator, a whole lot of assault marines and 2 of the FNP guys and a squad of sanguinary guard. After some good rolls by me and a lot of failed armor rolls by him, I shot him off the board at the end of 5.

Third mission was the most fun game I played in weeks. It was against a Vulkan list with a LR, a whirlwind, couple of dev squads, a MM/ Flamer xtra armor dread and a couple of tac squads. Popped the LR on the 3rd turn and the shrapnel killed 2 terminators, Vulkan took a s8 lance to the face and the dread just minced my poor jetfighter. The absolute best shot of the game came from a tac squad clear on the other side of the board that took a shot at my raider with troops in it sitting near an objective. Hits. Penetrates. Explodes. I FAIL my pining check,but luckily enough im able to place a model within claiming distance. I have to spend my turn getting that unit to its feet and at the end of my turn the game ended on a 1. Was very stressful but a great game!

Edit - final list

Duke
2x4 trueborn , blasters, raider w/ FF and DL
3 trueborn, blasters, raider w/ Ff and DL

9 warriors, 1 w/ blaster, raider w/ FF and DL
5x5 warriors, 1 w/ blaster, venom w/ extra SC

ravager w/ 3 DL and FF
2x Razorwing, TL splinter rifle, 4 monoscythes, 2 disintegrators, FF

5 scourges, 2 HWB.

Scourges didnt do much, I didnt face much mech at all, but when I used them they really delivered. Will defiantly take them again.

Did you end up using the scourges or the sybarites w/ blast pistols? Wichever you took, how did they work for you?