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I was wondering about the benefits (if there are any) of being a guardsman.

Do soldiers in the IG receive a salary (like modern-day forces)? If yes, how is it organised?

After all, they keep being shipped out to other planets and other war-fronts. That means different economies and different currencies. So I doubt they get a monetary payment, or maybe they are paid using the currency of the planet where they currently fight or are stationed.

But then, are they paid in nature? Are they paid with precious metals, like gold (which probably have some value anywhere in the galaxy)? Are they paid with other objects, like extra food rations or smokes? Or is their "salary" simply sent to their family back on their home planet as a compensation for the loss of their boy?

Or are they simply not paid at all? By the way, that would make them slaves. A rather disturbing thought...


Any thoughts or answers?

I'm sure there will be various different interpretations regarding this topic, given that the franchise doesn't enforce a "canon policy" - but personally I'm going by the understanding that Guardsmen owe their service to the Emperor as payment for mankinds eternal debt to Him on Earth. So basically, joining the Guard is just a means to pay off. Conversely, anything like a "salary" would be a non-issue.

I do like James Swallow's idea of Imperial Scrip, however, as it provided a Guardsman with a means to purchase food and other amenities from the locals on whatever world he may be stationed at whilst circumventing the problem that the Imperium does not have a universal coin valid on each of its worlds.

The topic has been discussed in more detail here, by the way:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/428064.page

In some units like Krieg, there's never any mention of camp follow on's where it implies somewhere soldiers can go to spend money. Krieg just shuffle from warzone to warzone till you die.

For units like Tanith, the novels definately imply some sort of pay system and in fact gives a place in terms of camp followers where a soldier can take some R&R on their own ship by going down to the local food stall and buying something better than rations for himself, or a joygirl if he wants (joyboys I'm sure also exist), and there's always the alcohol and gambling which implies that they need some sort of income to be able to sustain that kind of industry.

To my knowledge so far...

-they are paid monthly or weekly in unknown numbers of thrones. In IIUP there is a description how to spend your pay ( buy gear, have fun or something else on a world they are passing by or on a world you are currently battling ).
-they are promised to go into pension ( there is even a lottery once a year that send one lucky Guardsman in early pension ) after some time on the field, or they can continue fighting until death.
-after their service is over they can choose to settle on a new world they helped conquer/defend. I assume they are given certain amount of thrones, pension and a house.

That is as far as I go with all the books, codexes and mini stories I read about that subject. Of course, some Regiments fight until death and have no payment at all ( Krieg ), some are all their life i military ( Cadia ) and some are fighting for other reasons ( Tanith ).

Imperial Glory has a character who sends his pay home to his family (who it turns out are centuaries dead). This may be one writer's interpretation of the matter, but I assume that they are given a standard wage (seeing as their equiptment, rations etc are free I assume this either goes into a fund or is for activities outwith their service hours) and a lump sum at the end of their careers. They would be paid in the Imperial standard currency (thrones) rather than local ones, at have standard pay rates issued (ie probably different ones for frontline, garrison forces). I assume that thrones can be traded for local currencies pretty easily.

In the Imperial however I doubt that all of the soldiers are payed. I mean if the regiment's homeworld had an idealogy which was against it, or say for instance that they were a penal one, then I guess they would not. Also commanding officers or commissars may choose to dock a soldiers pay for an indefinite period as a punishment presumably (one of the may ways for them to get shot in the back btw).

Wyrmalla wrote:sends his pay home

Wha-... With the warp-capable kilometer long starships of the Imperium's Intergalactic Postal Service, right? I heard stamps cost a fortune tho.

Wyrmalla wrote:I doubt that all of the soldiers are payed. I mean if the regiment's homeworld had an idealogy which was against it, or say for instance that they were a penal one, then I guess they would not. Also commanding officers or commissars may choose to dock a soldiers pay for an indefinite period as a punishment presumably (one of the may ways for them to get shot in the back btw).

I read of one world where the citizens are required to pay off the cost of raising them to adulthood... some choose to do so by taking a tour with that world's Imperial Guard regiments. I'd assume they get some small allowance at the most, while service time is slowly being converted into debt paid off.

Spetulhu wrote:

Wyrmalla wrote:I doubt that all of the soldiers are payed. I mean if the regiment's homeworld had an idealogy which was against it, or say for instance that they were a penal one, then I guess they would not. Also commanding officers or commissars may choose to dock a soldiers pay for an indefinite period as a punishment presumably (one of the may ways for them to get shot in the back btw).

I read of one world where the citizens are required to pay off the cost of raising them to adulthood... some choose to do so by taking a tour with that world's Imperial Guard regiments. I'd assume they get some small allowance at the most, while service time is slowly being converted into debt paid off.

You mean from the novel Redemption Corps? There was a regiment in that as I recall that had a serial number tattooed on them and had to pay for everything they owned, as did everyone on their homeworld too as a debt to the emperor. In this case sure, if they weren't completely brainwashed, then I'd assume that they'd be getting a little on the side. However their commanding officers or commissars may be deliberately harsh on such misdemienors as its against the idealogy of their homeworlds (though commissars don't always give a toss about a regiment's culture).

Don't know if they do in the fluff but i pay my IG.

Throughout all the books on the Imperial Guard I've read, there is only limited mention of a pay system. My guess is that guardsmen don't really care all that much about it, they get everything "free" and there isn't many ways or times that they could use it. Their rations act more as an in regiment currency than any numerical currency.

Id imagine there is some sort of compensation, as all regiments receive an R&R period (even DKoK if you've read Dead Men Walking, though its made clear that they NEVER take the opportunity and instead spend the entire time training). I would imagine that the compensation would largely be handled by the Departmento Munitorium directly rather than any form of pay. In other words official reps of the DM are attached/associated with any force of guardsmen, and the guardsmen can go through them to acquire any personal supplies that aren't issued to them, depending on the agents ability to acquire said goods and whether or not its authorized for acquisition (luxury goods for example, would no doubt be off-limits). During R&R periods, I'm sure that anything purchased would be basically put on the DM's tab rather than being paid for by the guardsmen themselves. Finally, "pension" seems to be the right to retire and live out the rest of your life in (hopeful) peace. Retirement seems to be basedoff of the number of campaigns conducted by the regiment rather than on an individual basis.

Ignatius wrote:Throughout all the books on the Imperial Guard I've read, there is only limited mention of a pay system. My guess is that guardsmen don't really care all that much about it, they get everything "free" and there isn't many ways or times that they could use it. Their rations act more as an in regiment currency than any numerical currency.

The black market is rife within the Imperial Guard though. In Gaunts Ghosts its stated that a large portion of an Imperial fleet's budget is spent on camp followers, ie families, drug peddlers, cooks, youknow. Whilst not in transit there's prently to buy whilst off duty in the camps or front line, or even in local settlements (though troops are given designated areas to venture into so as to not interfier with the local populace too much or meet some of the seedier elements-usually involving them meeting a chaos/genestealer cult whenever anyone breaks these bounds in the novelia). That illegal shiny chainfist that you've always wanted is going to cost quite a bit mind. Don't get caught with it though or its a straight sentance to a penal colony (because apparently there are certain types of imperial made weaponary that are illegal for the standard use by a guardsman).

Novels will contradict each other and even Codex material. That's as sure as tomorrow's sunrise. The absence of any canon or consistency means that you can simply pick what you like most, though.

As far as the GW vision goes, I've taken a quick glance at the 2E and 5E Guard Codices, but sadly it doesn't say anything about payment at all. However, I remembered a few things to consider:

1: Guard regiments get recruited from all over the Imperium from worlds with varying degrees of civilization. This includes semi-barbarians that have never heard of an economy not involving barter.
2: Guard regiments are deployed far away from their homeworld. It stands to reason that whatever world they visit has a different currency than the last.
3: Garrison duty is reserved for veteran regiments no longer meeting minimum strength, otherwise a regiment gets ferried from one warzone to the next.
4: Guard regiments suffer attrition without receiving reinforcements from home, but get merged with other regiments when they get too small. This means you have soldiers from different homeworlds in the same unit.
5: It seems somewhat impractical for transport fleets to lug around gigantic caches of money with millions upon millions of coins from a thousand different currencies.
6: The vast distances between the various worlds and the exclusivity of space travel and even communications mean that even if there was some sort of salary, sending it to your homeworld might be a bit tricky.

Make of that what you will.

Wyrmalla wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:I read of one world where the citizens are required to pay off the cost of raising them to adulthood...

You mean from the novel Redemption Corps? There was a regiment in that as I recall that had a serial number tattooed on them and had to pay for everything they owned, as did everyone on their homeworld too as a debt to the emperor.

No, I think it was some short story or mention in a codex maybe - a planet that tallies your cost to society in cold currency, then requires that you pay it back on reaching adulthood. You can do this in any fashion you choose, even paying straight up if you happen to be rich or inherit money. Their regiments aren't slaves, they're free citizens who chose to pay the debt by military service - their service time is said to convert into debt paid at a very good rate compared to most civilian careers. They're specialized in ambushes and minimizing their own casualties.

You are probably referring to the Jopall Indentured Squadrons.

Here's a bit of fluff from the old Armageddon campaign website: http://web.archive.org/web/20070202084014/http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/jopall.html

Lynata wrote:You are probably referring to the Jopall Indentured Squadrons. l

Excellent memory there if you found them... and yes, I think that's the ones. Although I'm sure I didn't read that particular piece on them.

"I find your military code revolting, your devotion to the Emperor insufficient and your combat morale non-existent, but the accuracy of your marksmen, sir, is the finest I have seen this side of the Galaxy!"
-Captain Kotski of the Krieg Death Korps adressing Marshall Traeg of the 96th Jopall Indentured Squadron

-Background info: The planet of Jopall is controlled by powerful cartels who are responsible for social, educational and medical welfare. As all of these cartels are privately financed every person on the planet owes the government huge amounts of money from the moment they are born. A way to pay off this debt is by serving in the Jopall Indentured Squadrons. Depsite the extreme unbalance in the planet's economy, the Imperium does not intervene as the planet quite naturally supplies massive quantities of troops for the Imperial Guard. Jopall does spend much time and money on marksman training and the men of the Indentured Squadrons are very skilled with a rifle.

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/imperial-guard/47308-ultimate-imperial-guard-conversion-guide.html

Spetulhu wrote:Excellent memory there if you found them... and yes, I think that's the ones. Although I'm sure I didn't read that particular piece on them.

The website - GW has long since abandoned it, but as you can see there are still ways to access it - is more or less a collection of White Dwarf updates accompanying the global Armageddon 3 campaign that was going on back then. The WD articles were more detailed, but the page still serves as an excellent insight into the conflict as well as offering cool bits of fluff on most of the involved armies. Maybe you've read it in one of the White Dwarf issues? But I'm sure they were featured elsewhere, too, if not in GW material then in licensed sources.

My main interest is with the Sisters, but the Imperial Guard is my second-favorite army and I love to read stuff about them as well - so whilst I wasn't specifically looking for the Jopall, I did remember spotting their name there.
I can only recommend taking a stroll through its pages. Lots of rarely-known info!

Aye, info is always good... I find I enjoy the fluff more than actually playing the game these days.

I think it depends on what IG force we are talking about and also what rank/role you have within the army itself. I dont think anyone gets payed in the Krieg forces except commissars as they get stationed with a regiment for a set period of time or until they file for transfer, AFAIK. I would imagine that generally there is some sort of payment to all guardsmen, whether it be honor, coin sent to your family, schooling for children, food and drink, housing on retirement or anything like that.

I like to think that It would be something similar to what the Roman empire used. Each soldier recieves a decent yearly salary that would keep themselves and their families going. After said guardsmans term of service is completed he gets a much larger sum of money and a plot of land where he can spend the rest of his days in retirement. Military veterans also held quite a high status in Roman society and my guess is that it would be similar in the IoM.

The land allocation system is brilliant as many of the loyal veterans would be given land on fringe worlds where loyalty is a much needed attribute and would help stabilize these worlds in the future.

The Roman system really is ingenious and I think it fits the needs of the IG and IoM perfectly.

Yes i think they are

The guardsmen in Imperial Glory get paid. Don't know about any others though.

'Life is the Emperor's currency , spend it well'

But yeah, probably

Why are we assuming the the currency take a physical form? Sure there might be small demoninations for local spending but the currency could just be deposited into a "bank" That way they would have access to it everywhere and you eliminate the need for

for transport fleets to lug around gigantic caches of money with millions upon millions of coins from a thousand different currencies

going off the above post.
Could they requisition money from the local GOVT to give to troops.

optimusprime14 wrote:Why are we assuming the the currency take a physical form? Sure there might be small demoninations for local spending but the currency could just be deposited into a "bank" That way they would have access to it everywhere and you eliminate the need for

That'd require a galaxywide banking network. Given how communications work and the lag involved, I'm not sure that I, personally, would deem it as feasible.

The "Imperial scrip" idea I've mentioned in the post linked earlier is the easiest solution, methinks, especially since the Guardsmen would be working under much the same conditions as those that were the reason why the real world came up with this idea (long distances, inavailability of a hard uniform currency, control).

This way you also forego the issue of unequal pay due to homeworld origins or disastrous effects on the economy of the planet the Guardsmen may spend their rations bonus on. Keep in mind that money is only worth that which people may give you for it. On one world, you might be able to trade a grox for a bar of silver, on another you'd get ten. A scrip voucher for "1/2 meal", on the other hand, will give you 1/2 meal everywhere, regardless on which world you spend it. Just that the meal will probably be better in one place than another.

Alternatively, scrip may even be designed like a currency itself, meant to be converted to local currency on rates fixed by the local administration rather than as a voucher for a specific kind of service. Examples for this would be the Allied Military Currency issued during WW2, and the MPCs issued by the US military between '46 and '73, or the Southern Development Bank Notes issued by the Japanese military in WW2.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Could they requisition money from the local GOVT to give to troops.

I assume the Administratum/Munitorum is able to tithe anything they want, though it is only ever mentioned to come in the form of resources like food and munitions.

Lynata wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Could they requisition money from the local GOVT to give to troops.

I assume the Administratum/Munitorum is able to tithe anything they want, though it is only ever mentioned to come in the form of resources like food and munitions.

That makes sense in greater distances. But when you get closer it makes sense.

hotsauceman1 wrote:That makes sense in greater distances. But when you get closer it makes sense.

I'm sorry, but ...

Lynata wrote:

optimusprime14 wrote:Why are we assuming the the currency take a physical form? Sure there might be small demoninations for local spending but the currency could just be deposited into a "bank" That way they would have access to it everywhere and you eliminate the need for

That'd require a galaxywide banking network. Given how communications work and the lag involved, I'm not sure that I, personally, would deem it as feasible.

The "Imperial scrip" idea I've mentioned in the post linked earlier is the easiest solution, methinks, especially since the Guardsmen would be working under much the same conditions as those that were the reason why the real world came up with this idea (long distances, inavailability of a hard uniform currency, control).

Alternatively, scrip may even be designed like a currency itself, meant to be converted to local currency on rates fixed by the local administration rather than as a voucher for a specific kind of service. Examples for this would be the Allied Military Currency issued during WW2, and the MPCs issued by the US military between '46 and '73, or the Southern Development Bank Notes issued by the Japanese military in WW2.

That's a good point.

Guardsman are obviously not paid using fiduciary types of money (that means coins and banknotes). First of all, that would represent a logistical hell for the Munitorum (how would you transport a regiment's pay halfway across the galaxy?). Besides, there's also the very high probability that this currency would not be worth a penny on the planet where the regiment is stationed.

Besides, it is absolutely impossible for the IoM to have a single imperial currency like those "thrones" or "credits", and the BL author that came up with this idea is an idiot that should be burned for the economic nonsense he came up with.

Apart from that, I was thinking that the Munitorum might use commodity money (that means gold, silver, or any precious material) to pay imperial guardsmen. After all, gold is probably considered precious all around the galaxy.
That's actually what the Roman Empire did back then: paying legionnaires with salt, so that they might make a living anywhere in the empire and its multitude of local currencies.


Then, I hadn't thought about your "scrip money", which does sound like a very feasible idea.

Laodamia wrote:Apart from that, I was thinking that the Munitorum might use commodity money (that means gold, silver, or any precious material) to pay imperial guardsmen. After all, gold is probably considered precious all around the galaxy.

But more precious on one world than another, I think. It works when limited to a single world, but once you go out in space and start looking at other planets, rare metals may suddenly become somewhat less rare: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/401227.stm
Or, at the very least you may end up with a large gap of value between one world and another, depending on the availability of natural deposits on-site.

Laodamia wrote:Then, I hadn't thought about your "scrip money", which does sound like a very feasible idea.

Aye, loved the idea the moment I read it - I think the first time I've personally seen it referenced for 40k was in James Swallow's "Faith & Fire".

Apart from preventing any disastrous effect on the economy it also provides the Munitorum with a means to exert control over their Guardsmen by enabling them to trace every voucher or note back to the soldier it was issued to, as well as being able to render them worthless on a whim or by a predetermined expiration date, or even exert a minimum of control over what they spend it on (if it's vouchers for a predetermined service like food or shelter). Lots of potential to think about.

Dark Heresy gives about 50 thrones per month for a basic conscript, increasing by about ~5 thrones/month or so for each non-officer rank and some more for veterancy. For reference,

One (1) throne in this game would be worth about 20 bullets. Ten to fifteen (10-15) would get a charge pack. Sixteen (16) would get one bolter shell, singular. A meal would depend on its quality, but a throne for a day's worth of foods is common amongst commoners.

The common worker in comparison earns about 30 thrones a month. They can afford to put food on the table, but little more without doing overtime, shady deals, or getting promoted (which would result in a measly 3 throne pay raise on average). Guardsmen are definitely paid better than commoners, and a Guardsman's food and bed are provided for them.

Keep in mind that this is a game, though, and that these would just be relative. Commoners JUST being able to afford enough food to put on the table and maybe being able to put a few thrones in savings sounds about right though.