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I've played primarily an all mech army with DE for years and only experimented with using wwp occasionally. I know the rough outline of tactics for using a wwp list, and I play raider and venom heavy lists very well, but I want to start experimenting with mixing the two styles in a slightly more competetive setting. Has anyone had any succes in a tournament environment with a mixed build, using a lot of mech and wwp? i want to know what unit combinations worked, what didn't, and why if you're able to tell me. I'm still brain storming and throwing units together in lists that I know would fail miserably in even a fun game, at least if I played them now. Thanks in advance.

After experimenting with a purely WWP based list in my last tournament I'm thinking that a hybrid list is probably the way to go actually. I largely managed to get around the issues of needing the first turn with the Baron + Harlies as backup (aside from the one game I got seized :( ) but my feeling is that without reserve manipulation or any long range punch pure WWP is too one dimensional and random to work consistently.

Going hybrid means you keep your long range firepower, essentially you just want to use the Portal to deliver a couple of hard hitting units which can't get transports. The obvious ones being Beasts, Harlies and Talos, but you can also use it to bring on other units as well since it can save you some points on transports. Hellions and Reavers also get very nice threat ranges from a Portal, but are tricky to use effectively as in large units you really want to get them a Pain Token asap. Overall its certainly more mech based than WWP based though, I don't think a 50/50 split is going to work since you don't end up with enough stuff on the table to start with so you end up just being easy early gae targets rather than providing fire support. If you look at most 1750-2000pt DE mech lists you will find that most lists look pretty similar, 3 Ravagers, 6+ Venoms, Blasterborn and then everyone has variations on what they use to fill out the rest of their army, so I certainly think a Portal + some assault threats would work well. With a hybrid list you can probably get away with a single Portal, just dump it in the middle of the table and use the assault threats from it to threat anyone trying to get to you.

The list I'm now tweaking is something like: Haemonculi with Portal, 2 x 10 Warriors with DL in Raiders, 2 x 5 Warriors with Blasters in Venoms, 8 Wyches with Haywires in a Raider (drop Portal and go for first turn charge with the Haemonculi's token), 3 Wracks in a Venom, 2 x 4 Trueborn with DL + Raiders and 3 Ravagers. That leaves you points for 2 pretty big Beast units and 7-8 Harlies with Kisses which can charge out and chop things up, the Beasts are durable enough to take a turn of shooting if they have to and the Harlies can steal a vehicle if they can't assault anything the turn they arrive. Alternative I might change the Ravagers to Talos with Haywire Launchers to give me more assault punch.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Retain the majority of a venom/raider heavy list, and bring a single wwp for the assault elements to get them across the board faster. I'll be experimentin this weekend some with swapping a single Ravager for a Talos to come out of the wwp. The Talos, "IF" it can close on vehicles, can wreck them a lot easier than a ravager ever thought about, and at a cheaper individual point cost.

I have a fun list made for a doubles game this weekend that I'll be experimenting with and threw in a squad of incubi for s**** and giggles. Dropped some FF and other luxuries to fit them in.

This is what I've got so far. It'll probably end up tweaked to death before the game though.

HQ
1x Haemonculus w/, 1x wwp - 85

Troops
5x Warriors w/ 1x Blaster in Venom w/ Splinter Cannon Upgrade- 125

Troops
3x Wracks inVenom w/ Splinter Cannon Upgrade- 95

Troops
5x Warriors w/ 1x Blaster in Raider - 120

Troops
6x Wyches w/ hydra gauntlets1x Hekatrix w/ Agoniser All have Haywire Grenades in Raider - 184

Troops
5x Warriors w/ 1x Blaster in Raider - 120

Elite
3x Trueborn w/ 3x Blasters in Raider - 141

Elite
6x Incubi- 132

Fast Attack
3x Beastmasters
5x Khymera
4x Razorwing Flocks - 156

Heavy
Talos w/ chain flails - 110

Heavy
Ravager w/ Night Shield - 115

Heavy
Ravager w/ Night Shield - 115

1498 I think...

I'm not sure the Talos is going to work since it has such a short threat range out of the Portal. Ideally you want 24" reach with Hellions, Beasts, Reavers or Scourges (counting range threat) but 13-18" from a fleeting infantry unit is really your minimum. Even Incubi are only just fast enough, probably the best infantry unit you have for this role are Harlies since they can cruise through cover easily.

The only other thing I'm concerned about is the size of the Wych unit. Really you want them 8-9 strong, certainly you should always be spending points on more bodies before getting any of the special weapons.

Mostly just running the Talos b/c I can and it's a 'fun' game. I figured I would just play test it since I haven't used it yet in the new codex

I normally run the wyches with the same model count ,+/ -1, and don't use the special weapons at all. They should be fine for the way I use them.

I may still switch things around though before the game.

ThePhish wrote:Mostly just running the Talos b/c I can and it's a 'fun' game. I figured I would just play test it since I haven't used it yet in the new codex

I normally run the wyches with the same model count ,+/ -1, and don't use the special weapons at all. They should be fine for the way I use them.

I may still switch things around though before the game.

The special weapons are over prices. The shardnet might be good if you really want to tarpit a single model but the hydra knives and razorflails are never better than an additional model on regular wyches. . Always take extra boddies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Powerguy wrote:I'm not sure the Talos is going to work since it has such a short threat range out of the Portal. Ideally you want 24" reach with Hellions, Beasts, Reavers or Scourges (counting range threat) but 13-18" from a fleeting infantry unit is really your minimum. Even Incubi are only just fast enough, probably the best infantry unit you have for this role are Harlies since they can cruise through cover easily.

Talos are good because they can wreck tanks and dreadnaughts. even if they dont make it in first turn they are needed to prevent a walker from killing everything or enemy troops shooting you to pieces from inside a vehicle.

Well.... my first outing with the mixed list wasn't much of a success. Although it was a doubles game, DE and Chaos vs Necrons and Demons. My part of the army was wiped by turn 5 in a game that went to 6. I would have to say it was equal parts my fault, dice god hate, and bad luck on reserve rolls which may fall under the latter category.

Talos, Beasts and Incubi were to come in through the wwp. The Talos came through turn 2 and went straight into cc w/ a demon prince. Had him beat until he got multi-assaulted by Kugoth. The Incubi came in turn 4 and went straight into assault w/ plaguebearers. Not optimal, but by turn 4, I wasn't going to bring them in on the table edge and be useless. They drew combat for 1 round, then died in turn 5 after being mult-assaulted by kugoth, and a nightbringer. The beasts came in turn 5, and basically ended up assaulting Kugoth and the nightbringer for gaks and giggles since it was pretty much a lost cause at that point. They lost by 3 wounds, failed Initiative and got cut down by the nightbringer.

The game was a friendly match and we didn't look at lists prior to playing. Part of the problem was that we were facing Imotek and the first 2 rounds were nightfighting, then solar pulse was used to make round 3 nightfighting. My mistake was moving forward to make my shooting viable, which got me shot down and moved me too close to my opponents scarabs who didn't need help eating 2 transport with 1 assault. I didn't consider it much during the game, but I realized late that I probably would have been better served bringing all of my reserves in from my board edge, rather than the wwp. With my reserves coming in piecemeal, they were picked off easily.

The game was still fairly close in the end. Alot of the units played about as as expected, minus my mistakes.

I wasn't overly thrilled with the wwp. Granted, I was only using 1, so I didn't have much of a choice of where to come on the table from. I didn't like the randomness of it. I didn't have anything available when I wanted it. I think, in this particular game especially, I would have been better off starting them on the board had I known that my opponents shooting was going to be a limited range.

I will continue to use it in the next few games, tweaking how I use it and posting back, still trying for a mixed list.

ThePhish wrote:Well.... my first outing with the mixed list wasn't much of a success. Although it was a doubles game, DE and Chaos vs Necrons and Demons. My part of the army was wiped by turn 5 in a game that went to 6. I would have to say it was equal parts my fault, dice god hate, and bad luck on reserve rolls which may fall under the latter category.

Talos, Beasts and Incubi were to come in through the wwp. The Talos came through turn 2 and went straight into cc w/ a demon prince. Had him beat until he got multi-assaulted by Kugoth. The Incubi came in turn 4 and went straight into assault w/ plaguebearers. Not optimal, but by turn 4, I wasn't going to bring them in on the table edge and be useless. They drew combat for 1 round, then died in turn 5 after being mult-assaulted by kugoth, and a nightbringer. The beasts came in turn 5, and basically ended up assaulting Kugoth and the nightbringer for gaks and giggles since it was pretty much a lost cause at that point. They lost by 3 wounds, failed Initiative and got cut down by the nightbringer.

The game was a friendly match and we didn't look at lists prior to playing. Part of the problem was that we were facing Imotek and the first 2 rounds were nightfighting, then solar pulse was used to make round 3 nightfighting. My mistake was moving forward to make my shooting viable, which got me shot down and moved me too close to my opponents scarabs who didn't need help eating 2 transport with 1 assault. I didn't consider it much during the game, but I realized late that I probably would have been better served bringing all of my reserves in from my board edge, rather than the wwp. With my reserves coming in piecemeal, they were picked off easily.

The game was still fairly close in the end. Alot of the units played about as as expected, minus my mistakes.

I wasn't overly thrilled with the wwp. Granted, I was only using 1, so I didn't have much of a choice of where to come on the table from. I didn't like the randomness of it. I didn't have anything available when I wanted it. I think, in this particular game especially, I would have been better off starting them on the board had I known that my opponents shooting was going to be a limited range.

I will continue to use it in the next few games, tweaking how I use it and posting back, still trying for a mixed list.

a C'Tan, a special character greater demon and a special character Necron. How many points was this each side? Venoms with splinter cannons could deal with all of them but with those being taken i might be tempted to take Vect and have some fun. Sure just one Str6 wound will gib him but he should have fun while his shadowfield is up.

It was a 3000 point game, 1500 per person. Their lists, to the best of my memory was:

Necrons, in no particular order:
Immotek (no idea how to spell that)
10x Immortals & cryptek
C'tan Shard / Nightbringer
annihilation barge
ghost ark w/ 9x warriorrs and cryptek
9x scarabs
3x destroyers

Demons:
Kugoth
6x bloodcrushers
10x bloodletters
5x Seekers
5x horrors
5x horrors
5x flamers
5x plague bearers
5x deamonettes
Demon Prince

I played the list from above. I didn't end up having any free time to mess with it, so I left it as it was.

To the best of my memory, my chaos partner took:

Demon prince of Khorn
2x defilers
2x dreadnoughts
5x plague marines w/ rhino
5x plague marines w/ rhino
7x plague marines w/ rhino
3x termicide squad

yeah, vect would have been fun for this game. They ended up being a little drawn out from each other, but there was definitely a 'royal rumble' type of feeling mid field. Talos vs demon prince and kugoth, then later a chaos dread vs the same demon prince. There was a lot of MC action going on. It was fun stuff.

The nighfighting from Immotek and my rolling an average of about 15"-18" for 'all' of my nightfighting rolls really nerfed my shooting, which is why I kept creeping forward to actually hit something. It ended up getting me killed in the end, but I learned my lesson, and I'll know how to fight it in the future.