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I'm looking at my Grey Knight list and wondering if anyone has given this combination a try.

I've never seen it in an army list on this site. I'm certain I'm not the only one who has thought of it.

What did you like? What didn't you like?

Problem with it is the auto cannon represents some of your only s8 48" shooting so you want to make that the assault cannon doesn't let you shoot far enough

I've seen it mentioned before, though I believe it was the same scanario you're in, interest in fielding it rather than having used it. As mentioned, the range desparity between the weapons is a big problem for most people, as now you're 'wasting' points if your not shooting both weapons you paid for. Psybolt ammo is an emperorsend for ACs and AssCs but not when they aren't being used, hence the dual TLAC/Psybolt config as it will never be without something to shoot. The AssC and a storm bolter with psybolt is still a great option as well, as the ranges match and they both benefit from psybolts, but the army as a whole already has a plathora of ~24" shooting as is.

Wolf 11x wrote:I'm looking at my Grey Knight list and wondering if anyone has given this combination a try.

I've never seen it in an army list on this site. I'm certain I'm not the only one who has thought of it.

What did you like? What didn't you like?

The 'Rainman' is hardly used simply because the internet has decided it's not as 110% effective as th ebasic psyfleman dread is.
The rainman set-up however is a very, very good loadout for agressive GK lists like draigowing or purifyers because it marches up withthe rest of the army and adds the re-inforced agis bonus, pretty much making any enemy psychic powers a complete non-factor when they target your units.

Of corse, most people I find are sheep, hence the insane amount of netlisting everywhere in competitive play.

My list (not super-competitive) has a standard psyfleman, and also an Assault Cannon/DCCW/Storm bolter/psybolt dread that rides in the Stormraven. I don't think mixing short and long range guns on the same dread is a very good idea, but a psybolt assault cannon does have its uses.

Experiment 626 wrote:Of corse, most people I find are sheep, hence the insane amount of netlisting everywhere in competitive play.

Hahah. I love this quote.

I was thinking it'd be perfect support for my Purifiers. I always march up with the army anyways since the Purifiers need the tarpit support.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Of corse, most people I find are sheep, hence the insane amount of netlisting everywhere in competitive play.

There doesn't need to be an internet to know that 4 S8 twin-linked shots at 48" is a pretty dandy thing for an army that doesn't otherwise shoot more than 24".

Really didnt need the internet to say hey pally's, purifiers and DCA are pretty dang good either. Find a person who needed to be told +2I force weapons were pretty darn good.

Needless to say outside of maybe some tips like not having your hammer on your "serg" to increase it's suriviability. I don't see many of the good pts of the codex being missed by many.

Experiment 626 wrote:Of corse, most people I find are sheep, hence the insane amount of netlisting everywhere in competitive play.

Well, your "sheep" comment may have some truth to it, but really, the Rifleman style dread is a no brainer in most GK lists. S8 and double the range of most GK attacks.

In certain lists, a non-Rifleman dread could work, though...


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Draigo wrote:Needless to say outside of maybe some tips like not having your hammer on your "serg" to increase it's suriviability.

That's a pretty obvious IMHO. Only time you'd want it on the "sarge" type character is with Strike Squads since he gets an extra attack of the regular guys.

Joe Mama wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:Of corse, most people I find are sheep, hence the insane amount of netlisting everywhere in competitive play.

Well, your "sheep" comment may have some truth to it, but really, the Rifleman style dread is a no brainer in most GK lists. S8 and double the range of most GK attacks.

In certain lists, a non-Rifleman dread could work, though...

You can use a standard dread in the back of a sr that is transporting a dca deathstar. Since they cant kill vehicles and have issues with certain targets you just send the dread that way and use the deathstar to cut up troops etc if your sr popped one.

Ive seen a dca deathstar with a libby just destroy vehicles with might going off.

I'm not sure of why one would want to sacrifice the limited long ranged capacity of the GK for further increasing the 24" threat. Isn't the entire purpose of the riflemen in the GK army to offer the 48" threat that is otherwise lacking?

Just on paper, the differing ranged weapons are certainly a disadvantage. Any shooting done with only one of the weapons will only be offset if the assault cannon manages to have a round where it does twice the damage of the TL autocannon. Normally assault cannons are paired with DCCWs as the assault cannon will lead to increased chance of the dread being in assault range (and therefore tarpitted/tied up and unable to shoot).

In short, I would be more inclined to ask why this is a superior option, as I don't really see it.

In short, I would be more inclined to ask why this is a superior option, as I don't really see it.

Haven't you heard? You are a net-listing sheep if you don't take something that is sub optimal. Nevermind the fact that you can easily quantify it in this case.....

Also, I could see a use for a multimelta on a Venerable Dred that advances with a GK list. If you are going to go with a 24" weapon, might as well take something you don't have lots of access to everywhere else.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Of corse, most people I find are sheep, hence the insane amount of netlisting everywhere in competitive play.

I think you just insulted a plethora of nerds...I may be in love with you for that.

Plethora what now? Only nerds use big words like that.

This variant really needs a better name than Rainman

The only guy in this thread who thinks that is a good name also thinks only net-listing idiots take them.

If your gonna use it to march up along with your close combat units like paladins, it's a great option. It's even more viable if your gonna make it a venerable dread as the AssC will miss less then and takes more advantage of the higher BS then the twin linked AC's do. While the army generally rules 24" range anyway, having another psycannon that can move and shoot at full effect is always welcome in my book, and while 4 str 8 shots are great, 2 str 8 and 4 str 7 rending are better with BS 5.

Like most people mentioned the "standard" psyifle double AC is gonna be the best unit for the points and is more defined in it's role, but this setup is by NO MEANS unusable, and actually comes with a few advantages so go for it!

when all else fails, insult their intelligence so that they loose their cool and play suboptimally. It works for sun tsu! ... till he met Vlad the impaler anyway.

DarknessEternal wrote:The only girl in this thread who thinks that is a good name also thinks only net-listing idiots take them.

Fixed that for ya. And she didn't say idiots...she said sheep. I have tried them too, and they are very good. But only once, and that was because my opponents gave my cat a bad touch and they needed to be taught a lesson.

And to the guy messing with me for the word 'plethora'-I was an English major. Words like that come with the territory.

The only time I would use the Psybolt AssCan on my dread is with a vendread in a stormraven along with my paladins. Keep his Doomfist because it is highly likely that he will need it in combat up close.

I have seriously considered this combination in my list that includes Dreads, but in the end I have decided against it for several reasons. First, while I also bring my dreads up behind the rest of my force to benefit from Aegis, I don't like them getting close to melta range, which happens more frequently if you are using Assault Cannons. Second, since I am already investing in a TL weapon that shoots at 48" I may as well take full advantage of that range and get a 2nd such weapon. Third, while an Assault cannon gives you 4 shots, they are not TL as is the Autocannon, though obviously the likelihood is that you will get three shots from a BS4 Assault cannon rather than two limit with a TL Autocannon.

I should state that I take between 6 to 8 Assault Cannon Razorbacks in each of my lists, so I don't need the redundancy of more Assault cannons on my Dreads.

I'm not so sure. Looking at it from the other side of things, it depends on the board and the rest of the GK list.

I have a friend who likes Coteaz razorback spam w/lascannon and TL plasma, the shorter range weapon comes in handy against my scarabs. An AC secondary weapon will have the same advantages - 7 str is still enough to auto-kill, and most of the game the longer range weapons are mostly forcing me to stay in/behind cover and/or solar pulse. They're a threat, but they don't often get enough targets. But then that wall of fire at 24" is a major pain - it's not easy for them to get a 48" field of fire, but that final dash is brutal.

Assault Cannon dread could be interesting hanging from the back of a storm raven filled with DCA since the raven is going to charge the enemy lines anyway the reduced ranged of the cannon wouldnt be much of a probem

Problem with Dread Psycannon imo is that then you mind as well invest in some infantry GK. Long range is hard to come for GK, while Psycannons can be taken by almost every slot and razorbacks/land raiders

timetowaste85 wrote:And to the guy messing with me for the word 'plethora'-I was an English major. Words like that come with the territory.

So you are a nerd. Here in 'merica we speak american, no need to study english.

Joe Mama wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote:And to the guy messing with me for the word 'plethora'-I was an English major. Words like that come with the territory.

So you are a nerd. Here in 'merica we speak american, no need to study english.

Phonetically, it's amuricn. Remove as many vowels as possible, then mumble something at the end about turrrists.

OT, I agree with Kenshin. Dreads fill a role that other GK units can't fill. Psyriflecannon dreads (my new moniker for them) are perfectly useable but fit a smaller range of GK armies than the tried and tested psyfleman.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Of corse, most people I find are sheep, hence the insane amount of netlisting everywhere in competitive play.

There doesn't need to be an internet to know that 4 S8 twin-linked shots at 48" is a pretty dandy thing for an army that doesn't otherwise shoot more than 24".

This is wrong. This is wrong headed thinking.

You have Storm Bolters. They are an Assault weapon. You can fire the max range on the move. That means your real range for shooting is 30". The table is only 48" wide, and you usually start 24-30" apart. By Turn 2 you should be in weapons range, if not Turn 1.

If you are aggressive with your Dreadnoughts (which as a GK I think you should be thanks to Reinforced Aegis) there's no reason not to take the Assault Cannon with a TLAC. You don't need the S10 in close combat, you have enough high strength. More S8 shooting will never hurt you though.

@cowmonaut:

So, what you are saying, is that if you pack only 24" range weapons you're fine because you'll be in weapons range turn 1 or 2?

So, where you play people just either sit there and allow you to get range or walk directly into it? No one you have come across realizes that they can back up?

You also are oddly assuming your opponent starts the minimum distance apart (24"). If they have long range firepower, why in the world would they do this? They can line up at the back edge and get at least another turn of uncontested shooting.

30" threat range isnt really that huge. Especially on infantry as other unit types can move further and therefore kite you around if you want to chase them.

To be honest, it really just seems like you are assuming your opponent is going to help you win the game. Seems like poor strategy to me.





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cowmonaut wrote:there's no reason not to take the Assault Cannon with a TLAC.

Yes there certainly is. If your opponent does not help you by walking/deploying directly into your range, you lose out on at least one turn of shooting. Damage is more important the earlier in the game it occurs, and therefore it is desirable to frontload your output as much as possible.

If the tactic being used on the dread is to advance it with the rest of the GK army to provide reinforced Aegis the 48" range of the TL AC is not necessary.

What's the best weapon for close range shooting on a GK dread?

IMO it's either a MM or AC. Best thing to go with a MM is probably a fist. Best thing to go with an AC is psycbolt, and since psybolt is purchased anyways may as well throw in a TLAC on the other arm. The range is wasted, but a pair of TL S8 shots is better than 1 shot from a krak missile so it's really just down to either the TLAC or doom fist.