Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Leman russ battle tank
leman russ demolisher
leman russ execuitoner
leman russ exterminator
leman russ eradicator
leman russ vanquisher
leman russ punisher

who agrees?

I would bump the Punisher up it has some uses.

I have gotten good results with it against Nid's.
29 reroll wounds at BS 4 against MC can do alot.

Duh, all Russes are good 'cause they're Russes.

Best. thread. Ever.

I never even thought to rank them before.

b-man wrote:Duh, all Russes are good 'cause they're Russes.

This. The vanilla Russ and Executioner (with plas sponsons) would be at the top of my list, but I don't think any of the Russes are truly bad.

Which is the one with a 20-shot gattling gun? Yeah, he belongs near the top. Goodbye horde armies with that guy. He can mow down half a unit (if not almost all) of a unit of Orks in one shot. I'm pretty sure it's the Punisher (apologies if wrong), and I'm astounded that it's at the bottom. And isn't it S6 anyway? Yeah...that many wounds on models...doesn't belong at the bottom. Right up there with the Demolisher cannon one in my eyes.

This is abit like asking which apple you like best.
I personaly like the Exterminator LRBT just becouse it lets me make Batte-mechs like these;

Each one has its uses and each one has a place. Besides whom doesn't like 60ton tanks

As long as there's things left to kill

Punishers are terrible.

The only good ones I've found are demolishers and battle tanks.

They all have their niche and excell in them.

Engine of War wrote:They all have their niche and excell in them.

The downside is that you then can't write a singular list if your units are only good in specific situations or against specific enemies.

Using only one helps your skill, and a lot of people seem to be really anal about using different lists against different generic codex armies.

As a horde ork player, I laugh at punishers, they hardly do anything against me since cover and hordes go hand in hand. The Battle tanks and Demolishers is where its at for an all around tank.

timetowaste85 wrote:Which is the one with a 20-shot gattling gun? Yeah, he belongs near the top. Goodbye horde armies with that guy. He can mow down half a unit (if not almost all) of a unit of Orks in one shot. I'm pretty sure it's the Punisher (apologies if wrong), and I'm astounded that it's at the bottom. And isn't it S6 anyway? Yeah...that many wounds on models...doesn't belong at the bottom. Right up there with the Demolisher cannon one in my eyes.

You wouldn't think it, but Punishers are actually one of the worst choices for anti-horde. 20 shots is all well and good...if they came with BS4 without an expensive one-per-army upgrade. You're far better off with a blast weapon, IMHO. And it's only S5 AP-, too.

Ironically, I find Punishers to actually be fairly decent at killing smaller units in cover. They'll get the same number of shots regardless of the size of the target unit, while a blast would be wasted firing at smaller units. The sheer number of wounds on smaller units also increases the effectiveness of wound allocation more often than not, too.

As for the original list, I'd place the Eradicator nearer to the bottom. The Executioner, despite it's crazy cost, is an exceptional tank; three small blasts actually has a slightly larger area than one large blast, while also allowing the tank to hit the same area multiple times (meaning potentially more hits). Its only disadvantage is its range.

The original list is pretty good, I would put the vanquisher at the bottom, and then the eradicator, with the punisher third bottom.

The Plasma Plate Flinger is my favorite.

I have always favoured the MBT Russ above all the others; it's an excellent jack-of-all-trades tank.

Engine of War wrote:They all have their niche and excell in them.

They all have their niche, but they don't all excel

The eradicator is probably the worst unit in the entire guard codex. It suffers all the problems of being a blast weapon, while having too low of a strength to be useful against vehicles, and too high of an Ap to make it a credible anti-infantry weapon. Likewise, the punisher loses out against its intended target type to its points in lasguns, and the vanquisher still has to hit, still has to pen, still has to roll well on the damage table (with no AP1), and still doesn't beat cover. For a one-shot-per-turn weapon, this is terrible.

The only russes that I actually like are the basic russ and the exterminator. They both do what they do cheaply, and at range. The executioner is bad because its way too expensive for what it does (especially against smart opponents), and the demolisher is okay, but you have to drive it into melta range to use it most of the time.

I'd break the list into

LRBT
exterminator

LRD
executioner

punisher
vanquisher
eradicator

in groups of "worth taking", "maybe worth taking", and "scarcely ever worth taking" respectively.

Each does have their.own niche that they excel at fliffwise. But really, variation like this is for list tailoring.

Battle Tank is an all purpose tank.

Exterminator ( The Autocannon.one) is.for light infantry such as HWS and vehicle squadrons.like Land Speeders

Vanquishers are for killing the AV 14 tanks that the the Battle Tank can't pen or the Dmoelisher can't reach.

Eradicators are for clearing small squads in cover like Scouts, Grots and Guardsmen, preferably objective holders.

Demolishers are for killing everything in a CC army. Getting close is no problem and it can destroy everything with no armour or FNP.

Executioners are your TEQ killers.

I tend to agree with the OP.

I have a 'Russ Trifecta of Awesome'. The trifecta consists of the vanilla russ, demolisher, and executioner. Exterminator has its uses, but the other three are just pretty bad.

To those who think the punisher is actually a good anti-horde tank, the Eradicator will likely outperform it in most cases due to higher strength, better AP, ignores cover, and doesn't rely on a poor BS. Both choices aren't good though.

Vanquisher suffers from poor BS on a one shot gun, and lacking in AP1 to make it a truly reliable tank destroyer.

Still, it is designed to tackle the land raiders and Monolithes that a Battle tank just can't handle.

Deadshot wrote:Still, it is designed to tackle the land raiders and Monolithes that a Battle tank just can't handle.

You need two shots to hit. Then you have a good chance (greater than 50%) to pen. Then you need three shots to reliably disable it. So maybe a full squadron of three could do it in a turn or two with no cover. At the cost of 450pts.

Honestly, they're just not that good as an anti-tank platform. Poor BS and no AP1 will always leave it being less than good, no matter how you spin it. Those points are better off on Manticores, Hydras and other Russes. Hell, even the Manticore has a good chance at busing AV14 with S10 ordnance.

For expierienced competiters and mathhammerists yes. But to an 11 yr old looking.for a Land Raider killer, that's what it is for. I think all units are designed that way.

I don't get the hate on the Eradicator. It's approximately as effective at killing Marines in cover as the standard LRBT, but it's about 100% more effective against anything else in cover. I always find it strange that the same people who complain about cover being so prevalent are the ones who don't take cover-ignoring weapons.

Blacksails wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Still, it is designed to tackle the land raiders and Monolithes that a Battle tank just can't handle.

You need two shots to hit. Then you have a good chance (greater than 50%) to pen. Then you need three shots to reliably disable it. So maybe a full squadron of three could do it in a turn or two with no cover. At the cost of 450pts.

Honestly, they're just not that good as an anti-tank platform. Poor BS and no AP1 will always leave it being less than good, no matter how you spin it. Those points are better off on Manticores, Hydras and other Russes. Hell, even the Manticore has a good chance at busing AV14 with S10 ordnance.

This, BS3 doesn't cut it for a one shot weapon. I prefer the Demolisher myself, slightly better chance of hitting and has a 75% chance of damaging a land raider. And of course it can butcher troops, too.

Deadshot wrote:Still, it is designed to tackle the land raiders and Monolithes that a Battle tank just can't handle.

So?

There are lots of things the LRBT can't handle, but that doesn't mean that other russ variants are GOOD at handling those things. A unit has to stand on its own merits, which the vanquisher doesn't.

If you want to kill land raiders, don't take russes, as none of them do that all that terribly well.

The demolisher and the executioner are good. The rest are grossly underwhelming for their cost. The Demolisher makes a great bait unit for overagressive suicide melta units, drawing them out to be destroyed before they can hit something important like your Chimeras full of veterans, or your Manticores, Hydras, or Executioners.

The Executioner is death on wheels for deep strikers.

point for point, i feel the eradicator does more damage (maybe only slightly) than the vanquisher and punisher, which fail. So its third.

The second last is vanquisher because after 6 shots of it main gun it COULD destroy a land raider and get it points back, and then some, more than what the punisher can do.

But the top 4 do more damage than the eradicator. Exterminator isnt a bad russ, it can destroy light vehicles every turn and hurt most infantry but the top 3 russes cover more with the blasts, hurt MEQ and TEQ and medium vehicles.

Plus most people agree that the top three are the best choice overall.

Its pretty close for the top 3 but i find the plasma tank scatters alot which is bad for a small blast. The demo and basic russ can be tied or the demo in fornt. I couldnt decide so i put the basic russ first because slightly more people, IMO, say the basic russ is best.

keep in mind that the ratings are for unupgraded russes. Though i dont think that it would make much of a difference (adding pask for instance).

Actually, the exterminator is better against both MEq and TEq against opponents who are smart enough to spread their troops out against small blasts (especially with terminators, as their large bases work even more to your detriment).

For the price of an executioner, you can get an exterminator with 3x heavy bolters and a stubber. In one turn of shooting, that's 2 MEq or 1 THSS termie. With the exterminator, assuming your opponent properly spreads out, you're looking at 1.25 dead MEq, or .63 dead MEq if they have cover, and only .42 dead THSS termies.

Put another way, the exterminator, for its points, is twice as good as an executioner against people who know what they're doing. That and the exterminator is more likely to hit with more S7 shots than the executioner, so it's even better against vehicles.

Unless you know your opponent likes to cluster up, and bring FNP units, the exterminator is better. Of course, if those conditions are true, then both are beaten out by the LRBT.

It's a tough call on the top three spots, only because I do so poorly with all the variants, heh.

LRBT
Executioner
Demolisher

Everything else.

The Eradicator spends more time as a wreck than any other vehicle I field, and that includes Chimeras. The Exterminator was great against Orks, especially Nobz and their trucks...but so are the top 3.

I've used the Vanquisher once, I killed a single Term and then it was destroyed. Wanted to try it out again, never had the sack to give it a shot.

I find that LRBT are good no mather what variant I field except the punisher witch seems a bit understrengt atm. The tank offers IG players a solid pice of armour witch can wreak havoc upon your opponetnt if fielded correctly