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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/20 12:11:42
Subject: Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Grovelin' Grot
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I have been running a foot sloggin' ork army for some time now and I am considering an upgrade. My army currently consists of 2x AoBR box sets of models, as well as a single BW - but I am considering expanding my heavy support list.
In particular I seem to be drawn towards the Kannon because of the range, cheap point cost to field, and seem to have the ability to fire shell and frag shots.
My opponents consist of IG, CSM, SM, and Tau.
I have read some of the army lists posted here and very few lists include Kannons from the Big Gunz option; so my question is two-fold:
Are there some drawbacks to the Kannon I am missing?
and
Would they go well in a slow green tide list?
If possible, an explanation of your post would be appreciated as it would aid in my understanding in the most effective use of this unit.
TIA!
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1000 pts
WLD: 14:8:0
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/20 12:24:40
Subject: Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Death-Dealing Devastator
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I never had too much success with them, every time I would use them I'd roll a Dawn of war scenario, effectively making them useless for the first couple of turns while they deployed and got into as good a position as I could find for them. Then my opponent would just stay out of their LOS to avoid them.
If you want artillery I would recommend Lobbas, due to them being able to fire indirectly. Or if you want some proper ordinance get some looted wagons with Boomguns. These kill just about everything and are nice and mobile which offsets their shorter range.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/20 13:00:30
Subject: Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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Except for being heavy weapons and screwing you over during DoW, they really aren't that bad. The real problem is that nothing (except Flash Gitz) in our heavy support slot is bad. Sadly boomgunz, deff dreads and kannons are just good, while battlewagons and killa kanz are exceptionally good. So most people use battlewagons or kanz, and there is no room left for kannons.
Kannons give good firepower for very few points, but are a static element. As you already have a battlewagon, I would suggest getting more battlewagons instead, as they get better the more you have. But if you want kannons, get kannons. They are far from useless.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/20 13:58:36
Subject: Re:Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne
Oklahoma
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They are not horrible but they are not great either.. I have found them to really shine in lower point games with a green tide list. I cant quite remember how many points 3 kannons with max grots are...87 points? Something like that..take 3 teams of 3 at 1k points or less and I found they do really well. But once you get 1250+ they start to loose there shine and other options become a lot better.
But they do work well for how little you have to invest in them.
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Can't you see we have been abandoned? Forget matters of duty and honor to the emperor this is now a matter of pride. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/20 14:09:47
Subject: Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter
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As stated above. They are awesome if you are needing some AT at low points. The higher BS makes them a viable option and the are fairly durable with big grot crews. They are however less attractive if you have points to spend on the other options.
That and Lootas are only one strength lower and put out a great deal more firepower.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/20 17:14:17
Subject: Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Agree with sentiments above, kannonz are a damn fine choice until you can afford much larger gunz (unless you are me, I try to take them even in bigger lists)
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DR:80S---G+MB---I+Pw40k08#+D+A+/fWD???R+T(M)DM+
My P&M Log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/433120.page
Atma01 wrote:
And that is why you hear people yelling FOR THE EMPEROR rather than FOR LOGICAL AND QUANTIFIABLE BASED DECISIONS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MAJORITY!
Phototoxin wrote:Kids go in , they waste tonnes of money on marnus calgar and his landraider, the slaneshi-like GW revel at this lust and short term profit margin pleasure. Meanwhile father time and cunning lord tzeentch whisper 'our games are better AND cheaper' and then players leave for mantic and warmahordes.
daveNYC wrote:The Craftworld guys, who are such stick-in-the-muds that they manage to make the Ultramarines look like an Ibiza nightclub that spiked its Red Bull with LSD. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/20 17:40:46
Subject: Re:Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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78 points gets you 3 missile launchers with an AV, 3 extra krew to guard against losing them through lack of grots, and 3 re-rolls for when you NEED to bust that transport open. That's a pretty good deal, particularly since Big Gunz are BS3 rather than BS2.
I actually think Kannons work best (though it isn't very fluffy) as a static support element for a Kult of Speed or a Green Tide list. Why? Because after you've got 9 trukks and 9 buggies on the field, or 180 boyz and some Battlewagon-mounted Nobz, you've still got 3 open HS choices and not all that many points left. At that point adding 9 Kannons for less than 300 points is quite an attractive option; more firepower to break open metal boxes before the boyz get there, and if all the important boxes are gone you can switch to frag shells and soften up the infantry before you charge into it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/20 19:10:30
Subject: Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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They are great though like lootas for example DoW is very harsh.
I put them with foot slogging boyz with tonnes of lootas and 9 kannons. You can build and effective gunline.
It is static, which a monument to man's stupidity as Patton put it.
st8 ap3 is needed in an ork list and lootas are not a good replacement for this.
Again rocket buggies or rocket kanz would better if it fits the list. Kannons, do need lootas and something like a unit of grots for assault fodder to work well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/20 19:54:34
Subject: Re:Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Grovelin' Grot
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Thankyou all for your helpful and insightful comments!
Atleast I know now the reasons why they don’t as often in lists as say, Kans do - but I can also see that they are valuable in their own right.
The points about being limited in DoW and their Field of View are very valid, so I am I correct in thinking that:
1) Fielding only a few (but breaking the 1 + 1 > 2 principal) would limit their liability in DoW scenarios while still giving me some hitting power
2) They would still be effective if I can manage to deploy them in cover while still being able to hit objectives in the open, which should keep the enemy away from said objective
I like the suggestions of Lobba's as well - the non LoS point is helpful. I kind of like the idea of being able to rain down orky doom and limiting my risk at the same time.
Thanks again for the suggestions!
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1000 pts
WLD: 14:8:0
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/20 20:34:10
Subject: Re:Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Once in awhile, the need to use far to many rokkits (or their equivalent) and once I made up a list using 3x3 kannons for my heavy support. They are one of things where if they arnt countered, they can really do some damage. Its nice to see someone thinking outside of the Battlewagons/kanwall builds. Id say their biggest drawback is they are not maneuverable and so once caught, they WONT get away. Not to mention, they count as artillery, and that can make them a tad bit easy to shoot apart.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/21 03:22:43
Subject: Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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I use Kannons sometimes, especially if i'm going defensive.
My home campaign has two extra missions, one of which is a 'defend the ....(fill in whatever here) ' where one force is supposed to defend a point at all costs.
I also use Zapp Guns, because i like them, but don't let people know that on here, or they'll attempt to math-hammer you to death
Lobbas make decent indirect fire support, and can really irritate an enemy that can't get at them
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The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/21 06:42:20
Subject: Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy
Italy
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I found that ork artillery can shine once you get away from the three basic missions. I've had a ton of fun with them from the Battle Missions book.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/21 07:29:19
Subject: Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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To be honest, the battlemission book favors orks a lot, most notably due to the no-mans-land being 18" in all missions, resulting a first turn charges a lot of times. Not to mention that some scenario special rules are outright ridiculous for orks, like rending for everyone, artillery strikes or the endless Waagh!.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/21 07:31:17
7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/21 13:49:30
Subject: Re:Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The battles mission book is a nice little gem, I certainly like it My best experience with kannons though, is they were sitting back shooting, no surprise there, but my brother drop podded a unit of sternguard down (for some reaosn, to take them out as if the rest of my army wasnt scary or something?) and they shot the hell out of my kannons, but unlucky for him, he didnt do enough killing. My turn comes around, and I launched a volley from the rest of my kannons strait into his sternguard, and killed all but 1, the next turn, they mowed down the pod as well. Pretty fantastic
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/21 13:51:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/21 17:40:00
Subject: Re:Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Yellin' Yoof
Milan, MI
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I didn't see this mentioned before, so if someone did say it ignore this. The Big Gunz make a great unit to stick your Big Mek with a Shokk Attack Gun into. They can shoot at different targets, which is nice as they'll seldom want to shoot at the same thing, plus you get a Gretchin meat shield for your HQ unit. I have only played with the SAG on Vassil, but geez it can be good fun. Both a set of Big Gunz and a SAG Big Mek are on my wishlist.
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- 2,000-ish
Daemons - 400-ish (Wife wanted to paint an army so she's working on this one for me. Yeah, she's that awesome.) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/21 17:54:29
Subject: Re:Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
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I'll swear by Kannons in low points games. They can do some serious damage. I recently played a 500 point game, and 40 points of Kannons suppressed a very expensive Leman Russ, giving cover for my troops to get in there and start krumpin' heads. Which was very important as I was running two trukks at that levels, and those things are made of paper.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/21 23:15:47
Subject: Re:Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Grovelin' Grot
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Once again, I thank you all for your responses!
You all have convinced me that the Kannons are a decent choice, while explaining their pitfalls so there are no nasty surprises. I have since bought a Razorback as a looted wagon, and I'll be picking up a set of 3 Kannons to augment my little sea-of-green men.
Edit: I especially like the idea of the SAG (what's better than 3 big guns? MORE big guns!  ), points and playtesting permitting of course.
To all those that replied: Good luck to you all with your battles now, and in the future!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/21 23:19:06
1000 pts
WLD: 14:8:0
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/21 23:17:31
Subject: Re:Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver
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I just wish they had more exciting models =(
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/22 00:31:27
Subject: Are Ork big gunz teams a poor choice for heavy support?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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The models are indeed ancient and fugly.
They will probably update them, and the aging buggy/wartrakk when they redo orks.
They might even surprise us, like they did with the Eldar support platform remake,
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/22 00:32:20
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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