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I'm confused. I'm reading through the rule book and it says that you can't shoot through enemy units to hit units behind them but then I get to the cover chat it lists enemy units as a 4+ cover save. So which is it? Can you shoot through them or not?

So long as you can see something, and are in range, and have no other restrictions (in melee, moved and trying to fire a heavy weapon, ect) you can shoot something. If you shoot at something, and there is intervening models, terrain, infantry get a cover save.

Where in the book did you see it say that you can't shoot through enemy units, I'm wondering? (I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I don't remember seeing it.) Juraigamer is correct, incidentally.

I had a quick look but couldn't see any restriction on firing thru enemy units. I think there is a special rule for Black Templar that won't let them fire thru but everyone else seems to be OK ?

You can fire through anything if you can draw los & the target is in range

IHateNids wrote:You can fire through anything if you can draw los & the target is in range

Well, you wouldn't be firing "through" them then, would you? Unless you have clear models, of course.

Firing over or between models is not the same as firing "through" them. You don't walk through a door; you walk through the doorway - that sort of thing.

Umm, I have walked through a door. It hurt, quite a bit.

Cheexsta wrote:

IHateNids wrote:You can fire through anything if you can draw los & the target is in range

Well, you wouldn't be firing "through" them then, would you? Unless you have clear models, of course.

Firing over or between models is not the same as firing "through" them. You don't walk through a door; you walk through the doorway - that sort of thing.

But you could fire through a net or through a tree or through some other entity that was not a uniform solid.

Firing through a unit (as opposed to firing through a model) seems an entirely reasonable thing to say.

kmdl1066 wrote:

Cheexsta wrote:

IHateNids wrote:You can fire through anything if you can draw los & the target is in range

Well, you wouldn't be firing "through" them then, would you? Unless you have clear models, of course.

Firing over or between models is not the same as firing "through" them. You don't walk through a door; you walk through the doorway - that sort of thing.

But you could fire through a net or through a tree or through some other entity that was not a uniform solid.

Firing through a unit (as opposed to firing through a model) seems an entirely reasonable thing to say.

True. I was thinking more in terms of "model" rather than "unit".

It said in the line of sight section that I could fire at a target if it was in of line of sight but if there's units in front of it and it's on a level surface how do you draw line of sight to units that are farther back. I was under the impression that you had to be high up or to the sight unless you were using barrage weapons.

Very easily.

The bikes are shooting at the guardsmen.



Unless the intervening unit is standing base to base, shoulder to shoulder, preventing you from seeing through it, then there is nothing that completely blocks LOS. Since you can draw LOS through the unit in the middle (as shown in the picture) you can shoot through it. Since you're shooting through another unit, the guardsmen get to take a cover save against any wounds from shooting.

If in doubt about whether your firing model can see the enemy, bend over the table and have a look. This is what the rulebook tells us.

Ok one other quick question. I know you can single out independent characters in combat but what about the upgrade characters? There not independent or special heros there just upgrades for certain units.

Upgrade characters cannot be singled out in CC, UNLESS your model has some sort of special ability to pick models being wounded.

The reason you can pick out ICs in combat is they are treated as individual units, and as we know - you attack units, not models

Upgrade characters are not separate units in close combat, and so cannot normally be attacked specifically