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Hmm. Do you know what else Dreadclaws can do?

DIE WHEN WE HIT THEM WITH STRATAGEMS AND EXPLOSIONS

So recently a friend of mine brought up the subject of the Hellforged Predator with all flamer weapons. I'm debating adding one to my collection using a Baal Predator kit to make the model. Are these things really any good for their points? 4d6 auto-hitting weapons seems good, but you do have to get pretty close to make use of them...

 ZergSmasher wrote:
So recently a friend of mine brought up the subject of the Hellforged Predator with all flamer weapons. I'm debating adding one to my collection using a Baal Predator kit to make the model. Are these things really any good for their points? 4d6 auto-hitting weapons seems good, but you do have to get pretty close to make use of them...

I built one a while ago. They’re a fun niche unit. If your opponent’s got anti-tank firepower, hordes that want to banzai charge, and the battlefield affords line of sight, it’s dead. This kind of unit really wants to be a mobile flying platform rather than a Rhino with +1W & a melee gimmick. Bikers do a similar thing for less, with the mobility to pull it off. I use it in Cityfight games and Narrative fort defence games where it can be pretty sure of having a suitable target come to meet it in a place where it’s not going to get sniped. Don’t forget you can add a Combi-Flamer for 5D6 auto hits.

Hi all!
I have been thinking about adding a Fire Raptor Gunship from FW.
It line up good for my csm/daemon army list AND for my newer army of sisters.

At first I was thinking of using a Knight but did check the points and weapons on both the Knight and the Fire raptor and
The fire raptor seems like a win... by a lot..

For a comp/ semi-comp perspectives, are the Fire raptor worth it? And/or is a Knight a good choice?
I need something bigger and badder that’s draws attention of fire.

And just for saying I’m kinda new to the game. (Late, late 7th)

Fire raptor was good before the faq, but not after the 90pt increase. What you choose to add would depend on what hole in your list you're trying to fill

There is mathhammer someone buried in here that concluded the Fire Raptor was slightly worse than a shooty Leviathan both offensively and defensively and that was done before Chapter Approved. Now that it's slightly more expensive than back then it will still be good.

It was ridiculously broken before so being nerfed doesn't make it unusable.

Guys, but is there any other internal ways to lower the BS of your rhino, except shooting combi-weapon?

I think investing too much into this idea is pretty glorious, but not efficient way to spend points.
But one rhino can indeed surprise.

I've got a lot of models primed leadbelcher for Iron Warriors and I was thinking of making a Vanguard of Alpha Legion to run with them for "Forward Operatives" purposes.

I'm leaning heavily towards 10 chosen, 5 termies, 1 helbrute, and 1 sorcerer hq of some persuasion for warptime/prescience etc.

1.) Are there ANY drawbacks to mixing legions at all?
2.) What are some tactical benefits and/or fluffy reasons for the two legions to work together?
3.) If there is no drawback to mixing legions and I DO get to use the benefits of both legions without consequences, then is there anything stopping me from running 3 detachments that are all different legions? (Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Alpha Legion)
4.) Suggests for how to kit these out are welcome. I'm thinking combi-bolter/chainsword Chosen, combi-plasma Termicide, but not sure about the brute or the HQ.

Cheers and thanks!

 CountEjacula138 wrote:
I've got a lot of models primed leadbelcher for Iron Warriors and I was thinking of making a Vanguard of Alpha Legion to run with them for "Forward Operatives" purposes.

I'm leaning heavily towards 10 chosen, 5 termies, 1 helbrute, and 1 sorcerer hq of some persuasion for warptime/prescience etc.

1.) Are there ANY drawbacks to mixing legions at all?
2.) What are some tactical benefits and/or fluffy reasons for the two legions to work together?
3.) If there is no drawback to mixing legions and I DO get to use the benefits of both legions without consequences, then is there anything stopping me from running 3 detachments that are all different legions? (Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Alpha Legion)
4.) Suggests for how to kit these out are welcome. I'm thinking combi-bolter/chainsword Chosen, combi-plasma Termicide, but not sure about the brute or the HQ.

Cheers and thanks!

As far as I understand it you can mix legions as long as each detachment is its own legion. The only draw backs I can think of would be that certain abilities wouldn't benefit units from other legions. For example, your HQ units would have auras that would only affect models from their own legion.

There is a cool book that includes some Khorne Berserkers in an Iron Warriors siege. You could take Khorne Berserkers in an Iron Warriors Legion, but I their legion benefits wouldn't be useful. Instead, you could take renegade or World Eaters berserkers as a detachment to battle alongside your Iron Warriors legion. My friend plays Death Guard and Iron Warriors whereas I play World Eaters, so we like to do this sometimes.

 Kharneth wrote:



As far as I understand it you can mix legions as long as each detachment is its own legion. The only draw backs I can think of would be that certain abilities wouldn't benefit units from other legions. For example, your HQ units would have auras that would only affect models from their own legion.

There is a cool book that includes some Khorne Berserkers in an Iron Warriors siege. You could take Khorne Berserkers in an Iron Warriors Legion, but I their legion benefits wouldn't be useful. Instead, you could take renegade or World Eaters berserkers as a detachment to battle alongside your Iron Warriors legion. My friend plays Death Guard and Iron Warriors whereas I play World Eaters, so we like to do this sometimes.

Ah yes. Storm of Iron. That's why I ran the two together in the first place. Love that book! I'm just trying to squeeze as much out of all my units as possible. It is becoming more and more feasible to me to run 3 detachments of 3 legions with their own specialty. Swim in command points. IW for long range gun line and turn 1 shooting, AL for -1 to hit cultists and forward opps, WE for extra helpings of zerker meat on this fluff sandwich.

Thanks

 CountEjacula138 wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:



As far as I understand it you can mix legions as long as each detachment is its own legion. The only draw backs I can think of would be that certain abilities wouldn't benefit units from other legions. For example, your HQ units would have auras that would only affect models from their own legion.

There is a cool book that includes some Khorne Berserkers in an Iron Warriors siege. You could take Khorne Berserkers in an Iron Warriors Legion, but I their legion benefits wouldn't be useful. Instead, you could take renegade or World Eaters berserkers as a detachment to battle alongside your Iron Warriors legion. My friend plays Death Guard and Iron Warriors whereas I play World Eaters, so we like to do this sometimes.

Ah yes. Storm of Iron. That's why I ran the two together in the first place. Love that book! I'm just trying to squeeze as much out of all my units as possible. It is becoming more and more feasible to me to run 3 detachments of 3 legions with their own specialty. Swim in command points. IW for long range gun line and turn 1 shooting, AL for -1 to hit cultists and forward opps, WE for extra helpings of zerker meat on this fluff sandwich.

Thanks

I guess the only downside would be the overwhelming number of troops you'd need to take for 3 detachments. 6 HQ and 9 Troops, assuming they are battalions. Alpha Legion cultists could be very cheap. Iron Warrior cultists backed up with some heavy support and a World Eaters force with Khorne Berserkers might work and fit. Berserkers are elites that count as troops, so then you're only looking at 6 "actual" troop units. I'd love to see what you come up with.

 Fan67 wrote:
Guys, but is there any other internal ways to lower the BS of your rhino, except shooting combi-weapon?

I think investing too much into this idea is pretty glorious, but not efficient way to spend points.
But one rhino can indeed surprise.

I’ve been scouring our books and the only other thing I’ve found that can contribute to this gambit is a Poxbringer casting Nurgle’s Rot. Could drop some more Mortal Wounds on the ‘carriages’ in the train wreck ploy.

 Kharneth wrote:

 CountEjacula138 wrote:

 Kharneth wrote:



As far as I understand it you can mix legions as long as each detachment is its own legion. The only draw backs I can think of would be that certain abilities wouldn't benefit units from other legions. For example, your HQ units would have auras that would only affect models from their own legion.

There is a cool book that includes some Khorne Berserkers in an Iron Warriors siege. You could take Khorne Berserkers in an Iron Warriors Legion, but I their legion benefits wouldn't be useful. Instead, you could take renegade or World Eaters berserkers as a detachment to battle alongside your Iron Warriors legion. My friend plays Death Guard and Iron Warriors whereas I play World Eaters, so we like to do this sometimes.

Ah yes. Storm of Iron. That's why I ran the two together in the first place. Love that book! I'm just trying to squeeze as much out of all my units as possible. It is becoming more and more feasible to me to run 3 detachments of 3 legions with their own specialty. Swim in command points. IW for long range gun line and turn 1 shooting, AL for -1 to hit cultists and forward opps, WE for extra helpings of zerker meat on this fluff sandwich.

Thanks

I guess the only downside would be the overwhelming number of troops you'd need to take for 3 detachments. 6 HQ and 9 Troops, assuming they are battalions. Alpha Legion cultists could be very cheap. Iron Warrior cultists backed up with some heavy support and a World Eaters force with Khorne Berserkers might work and fit. Berserkers are elites that count as troops, so then you're only looking at 6 "actual" troop units. I'd love to see what you come up with.

You read my mind exactly. I'll let you know what becomes of my experiments.

Cheers!

Just to check, Forward Operatives deploys the dudes you set up in concealment after the roll to seize the first turn has happened but before the first turn actually begins? I'm planing on ye olde Alpha Legion Berzerker Bomb, powered by the new Battalions. If the deployment is after seize, this will let me change my plan on the fly.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Just to check, Forward Operatives deploys the dudes you set up in concealment after the roll to seize the first turn has happened but before the first turn actually begins? I'm planing on ye olde Alpha Legion Berzerker Bomb, powered by the new Battalions. If the deployment is after seize, this will let me change my plan on the fly.

Yup.

So with the FAQ changes, is there still a need for screening cultists? Thinking about my World Eaters, and tbh it’s hard to fit cultists in. I will be running an outrider with flesh hounds and a bloodletter bomb, so there is some screening potential from the hounds.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Just to check, Forward Operatives deploys the dudes you set up in concealment after the roll to seize the first turn has happened but before the first turn actually begins? I'm planing on ye olde Alpha Legion Berzerker Bomb, powered by the new Battalions. If the deployment is after seize, this will let me change my plan on the fly.

Yea alpha legion really likes the FAQ extra CP and our alpha strike is just as effective. The only thing that has changed in my list is less termy armour and jump packs and that my oblits will now come in with forward ops rather than DS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
So with the FAQ changes, is there still a need for screening cultists? Thinking about my World Eaters, and tbh it’s hard to fit cultists in. I will be running an outrider with flesh hounds and a bloodletter bomb, so there is some screening potential from the hounds.

3 x 10 man cultist squads to fill a battalion is super cheap for 5 CPs. They can still block turn 2 DS and can hold backline objectives.

Im running a battalion with cultists and one with horrors to give me 10 CPs which is more than enough for my list.

I can't remember if I asked this before, but what are people's opinions on a Dark Mechanicus style Daemon Engine army?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I can't remember if I asked this before, but what are people's opinions on a Dark Mechanicus style Daemon Engine army?

I think potentially quite strong.
There are some solid daemon engines in the game..
Plagueburst crawler, soul grinders, bloat drones..

Personally I think they would need screening and beta striking support, but maybe not.

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
So with the FAQ changes, is there still a need for screening cultists? Thinking about my World Eaters, and tbh it’s hard to fit cultists in. I will be running an outrider with flesh hounds and a bloodletter bomb, so there is some screening potential from the hounds.

I was pondering this same question this morning. I like having the pocket tide of traitors stratagem available to me as well as the screen they provide but the last 2 or 3 games I've played I've either not used the strat or had it penalized / mitigated by the new beta DS rules (specifically when used on first turn). In my play group not a lot people setup screens. I'm guessing this is because they'd rather bring their big tanks than scatter a bunch of gak kickers across the board to prevent a backfield strike that may or may not happen. It's hard to say if this is the popular opinion though in the community as a whole. I, for one, plan to continue at least some sort of screening even if it's toned down. I do have genestealer cult and IG / Tallarn (is that the one that lets you outflank from board edges?) players in my group though so blocking off board edges with my cultists would hamper their efforts.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I can't remember if I asked this before, but what are people's opinions on a Dark Mechanicus style Daemon Engine army?

IMO it'd work best as mono-god Daemonkin, with a CD Supreme Command of mounted Heralds and/or flying DPs giving buffs, or an Epidemius Battalion.

Lack of a cheap & fast HQ for Nurgle Daemons presents limitations, but Fleshy Abundance & Loci of Virulence & Fecundity are all good. Last one is quite DG-specific in its synergy, though.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I can't remember if I asked this before, but what are people's opinions on a Dark Mechanicus style Daemon Engine army?

I think potentially quite strong.
There are some solid daemon engines in the game..
Plagueburst crawler, soul grinders, bloat drones..

Personally I think they would need screening and beta striking support, but maybe not.

I was hoping to stick on a Slaanesh theme, but are Soul Grinders really much better than delfilers? It's kinda sucky, and I may abandon it - Slaanesh has exactly 0 Daemon Engines unique to her.

lindsay40k wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I can't remember if I asked this before, but what are people's opinions on a Dark Mechanicus style Daemon Engine army?

IMO it'd work best as mono-god Daemonkin, with a CD Supreme Command of mounted Heralds and/or flying DPs giving buffs, or an Epidemius Battalion.

Lack of a cheap & fast HQ for Nurgle Daemons presents limitations, but Fleshy Abundance & Loci of Virulence & Fecundity are all good. Last one is quite DG-specific in its synergy, though.

My main HQ was going to be the Chaos Hellwright, as I have a dark mechanicus Horus Heresy cybernetica army. Sadly, Thanatars, Castellax, etc. have no real 40k counterparts, so I can't just bring over my 30k army with added corruption, lol.

Soul grinders are not better than defilers or are better depending on a LOT of outside variables. Thousand Son defilers will wreck whatever they look at typically without an issue due to their boosts to their abilities through stratagems and spells. Soul Grinders are typically not better, but the mark you give them can make them better. Mark of Tzeentch gives it a default 4++ save, Mark of Nurgle gives it a 5+++ fnp. I think I need to relook at soul grinders mixed in with my rubric army, they may have untapped potential there.

But mark of slaanesh or khorne soul grinders are typically just like a mark of slaanesh or khorne defilers, they are ment to be used as cc and the ranged abilities are more of a "oh yeah it can do this too I guess". Like ork shooting..... Lol

Azuza001 wrote:
Soul grinders are not better than defilers or are better depending on a LOT of outside variables. Thousand Son defilers will wreck whatever they look at typically without an issue due to their boosts to their abilities through stratagems and spells. Soul Grinders are typically not better, but the mark you give them can make them better. Mark of Tzeentch gives it a default 4++ save, Mark of Nurgle gives it a 5+++ fnp. I think I need to relook at soul grinders mixed in with my rubric army, they may have untapped potential there.

But mark of slaanesh or khorne soul grinders are typically just like a mark of slaanesh or khorne defilers, they are ment to be used as cc and the ranged abilities are more of a "oh yeah it can do this too I guess". Like ork shooting..... Lol

Lol! It's worth noting that having the Daemon keyword means that Slaaneshi defilers can advance and charge if they're within 6" of a Daemon Character from a slaanesh daemons detachment.

I really prefer the look of Defilers to Soul Grinders. What I am considering is my Chaos Hellwright as HQ, possibly another hellwright or warpsmith as other HQ, then 2 Defilers as 2 Heavy Support, and some kind of "land raider command tank" type thing, possibly one of the FW land raiders, and then cultists or something as the troops.

I hate the look of the dinobots. I'd be willing to consider Decimators with Soulburner cannons too.

Hmm and slaaneshi helldrakes if you really want to go fast.
Ofc you need to get the Herald close so that doesn't even..

Played my Alpha Legion last night in first battle since the FAQ.

Increase in command points for battalion is great as it allows more Forward Operatives - i picked four units rather than the usual two.
Raptors (with two melta guns), 20 cultists, 5 man squad and a sorcerer.
The fact these are all then able to move and act normally meant i could put a lot more pressure on my opponent than normal.
Sorcerer was placed in front of my line so he could use Warptime to slingshot a contemptor dreadnought into doing a turn one charge.
Raptors did damage to a Sicaran which meant a ranged unit could finish it off and then charged some marines. The cultists just made a nuisance of themselves.
I do like the ability to be more aggressive with Forward Ops that the FAQ has given.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Hmm and slaaneshi helldrakes if you really want to go fast.
Ofc you need to get the Herald close so that doesn't even..

Yeah, that was one of my problems with my Slaanesh Pocket-Rocket list. Tried Heldrakes with mounted Heralds, doesn't work unless your Drake's barrel-rolling in your DZ.
Opted to use mass Renegade bikes, Warptimed possessed, Maulerfiends with a private Herald entourage & Slaanesh Fiends. Basically, every Daemon with a base-movement of
10-14" is fine to be followed by a lady on steed, everything faster than that & she can't keep up.

Nurgle and gnarlmaw is probably a better option then?

I had a Horrible and stupid idea today

Take a Mastodon, two squads of 9 Bersekers with Chainaxe/chainsword with a powerfist on the champ and banners. An Exalted Champion and a Lord, and two Contemptors with Kheres Assault Cannon and death claw

It’s pretty much a 2k Army, and you only get 4 Command points since it has to be a Vanguard, but a giant Khorne Partybus would be fun.

 Iur_tae_mont wrote:
I had a Horrible and stupid idea today

Take a Mastodon, two squads of 9 Bersekers with Chainaxe/chainsword with a powerfist on the champ and banners. An Exalted Champion and a Lord, and two Contemptors with Kheres Assault Cannon and death claw

It’s pretty much a 2k Army, and you only get 4 Command points since it has to be a Vanguard, but a giant Khorne Partybus would be fun.

I didn't even know that thing had rules for 40k.