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As the subject line question makes pretty clear I am a VC player looking for a solution to a fellow WHFB players deathstar of Ironguts. Said player is throwing about 1200pts of our 2400pt game into this star and it just walks over all of my units except my GG that last a few rounds before being stomped to dust. My army list at this point:
2 Master Necromancer
Wight King w/ BSB
Cairn Wraith
20 zombies x2
30 skeletons
40 ghouls
Spirit Host x2
25 Grave Guard
Terrorgheist x2

The important knowledge I would assume would be that a Cairn Wraith and lvl 3 Necro are with Ghouls and then Wight King and lvl4 Necro (general) are with the Grave Guard. I know I didn't go very much into detail on what each has but I am mainly looking for tactics and not complete changes to the list (partially due to lack of models to completely change out unit choices).

Slow/delay it with Spirit Hosts, or raised zombies, scream it with Terrorgheists and put Death magic on a Necro for some Purple Sun fun and games!

The first two are some of my favorite style of options against death stars- "Gonna make something no one wants to fight? Very well. I shan't fight it."

I have thought of using the purple sun but 2 IoN is so useful for creating zombie tarpits to stall other armies and I am trying to tailor for tournament play not just against this player. The other issue I see with going Death for Purple Sun is the rolling for the spells and if my lvl 3 doesn't get a 6 or doubles on generation I am not gonna get it. I do like the idea of the spirit host distraction though they will still crumble rather quickly since the ogre horde still has rank bonuses and that means I have to do enough wounds to negate that and BSB and standard.

I am unfortunately seeing all the negatives at this point since I was just crushed earlier by this deathstar and had my terrorgheist duo wrecked by cannon fire by the end of his second turn with only one chance to scream doing 5 wounds between the two.

3x1 spirit host, 3x2 fell bats.
It's 231 points for 6 units, which are quick, and will block that death star for most of the game.
Then just terrorgeist the crap out of it. Requires very few additional models.

-Matt

yea, thats the tactical solution. direwolves work to (cheap and vanguard). kill the cannons with your terrorgeists asap then turn to the deathstar. Try hitting it with curse of years, nice waste of their power dice if it goes off (and he may fail and lose a pile of wounds).

Or again- zombie road blocks once he gets close! Come up where you'd like, don't cost anything.

Unless there is something else he is packing in there just:
1: park the two spirit hosts in front (ie: where he cannot wheel around). prepare dual Flank charges with gg/ ghouls
2: he charges hosts and does 5 wounds due to crumbling (charge/banner/+3 ranks). You negate one with bsb; one spirit host dies
3. Dual Flank charge on your turn; buff up with your magic.
With a much more managable 9-12 attacks to each unit rather than 30ish he would be tossing forward you can maximize your damage output while neutering his... So you will lose combats by significantly less (if at all). This allows units to stick around long enough for your necros to keep the numbers up.
If you don't wanna kill it, the infinite redirecting zombie/dog trick is easy. Just park them at awkward angles so that when he snaps to combat his overrun would send him somewhere terrible.
At the end of the day, as long as you don't feed the deathstar enough units to make it's points back (which shouldn't be hard) you are coming out ahead in the end. So if it eats 400 points then you have 2000 to take out his remaining 1200...

HawaiiMatt wrote:3x1 spirit host, 3x2 fell bats.
It's 231 points for 6 units, which are quick, and will block that death star for most of the game.
Then just terrorgeist the crap out of it. Requires very few additional models.

-Matt

the terrorgheist can scream while the enemy unit is in CC?

darthtd wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:3x1 spirit host, 3x2 fell bats.
It's 231 points for 6 units, which are quick, and will block that death star for most of the game.
Then just terrorgeist the crap out of it. Requires very few additional models.

-Matt

the terrorgheist can scream while the enemy unit is in CC?

It's a special attack done in the shooting phase.
You choose any enemy unit in range and line of sight.
The only restriction is that if you (the terrorgheist) is in combat, you may only target the unit you are in combat with.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

darthtd wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:3x1 spirit host, 3x2 fell bats.
It's 231 points for 6 units, which are quick, and will block that death star for most of the game.
Then just terrorgeist the crap out of it. Requires very few additional models.

-Matt

the terrorgheist can scream while the enemy unit is in CC?

It's a special attack done in the shooting phase.
You choose any enemy unit in range and line of sight.
The only restriction is that if you (the terrorgheist) is in combat, you may only target the unit you are in combat with.

-Matt

I did not even realize this I thought the scream was restricted like other shooting attacks, the fact they can scream into combats they arn't in places them even higher on my list of models fielded in ever combat;. . . . . though they already were at the top (they are just so friggen cool)

HawaiiMatt wrote:

darthtd wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:3x1 spirit host, 3x2 fell bats.
It's 231 points for 6 units, which are quick, and will block that death star for most of the game.
Then just terrorgeist the crap out of it. Requires very few additional models.

-Matt

the terrorgheist can scream while the enemy unit is in CC?

It's a special attack done in the shooting phase.
You choose any enemy unit in range and line of sight.
The only restriction is that if you (the terrorgheist) is in combat, you may only target the unit you are in combat with.

-Matt

Where would i be able to find the specification for this? my friends need proof lol

Spirit hosts will just get killed if the ironguts are carrying a magic banner like the flame one for example

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:Spirit hosts will just get killed if the ironguts are carrying a magic banner like the flame one for example

Incorrect, the flame banner gives attacks flaming attacks not magic attacks. Just double checked before posting and the banner says grants flaming attacks so I checked Flaming Attacks in the BRB the only new thing I learned is flaming causes fear in animals. . . Definitely need to remember that. . . .

AFAIK a magic item that confers attacks onto a unit in addition to any other effects grants them magical attacks

DaHoss wrote:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:Spirit hosts will just get killed if the ironguts are carrying a magic banner like the flame one for example

Incorrect, the flame banner gives attacks flaming attacks not magic attacks. Just double checked before posting and the banner says grants flaming attacks so I checked Flaming Attacks in the BRB the only new thing I learned is flaming causes fear in animals. . . Definitely need to remember that. . . .

on that note, usual Flaming attacks are magical? if not for the banner giving them?

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:AFAIK a magic item that confers attacks onto a unit in addition to any other effects grants them magical attacks

No, per the latest FAQ, Magic attacks are restricted to damage directly coming from a Magic item.

The Banner isn't doing the flaming attacks, its giving the Ironguts Flaming attacks.


However, the Dragonhide Banner can be used as a Breath Weapon. That will be magical because it is from the Banner itself.

HawaiiMatt wrote:3x1 spirit host, 3x2 fell bats.
It's 231 points for 6 units, which are quick, and will block that death star for most of the game.
Then just terrorgeist the crap out of it. Requires very few additional models.

-Matt

How can that block the death star? Won't they hit them and just destroy them with CR, then reform to face any direction they want? I suppose you could just throw them at him in sequence, letting him hit them, then have to wait for CR, then another one, then more CR, then a third. That DOES give you 3 turns of nullification, which, combined with the time taken to get to you... So basicly the only way to beat other armies is now points denial?

Feeding any unit single bases of hosts is amazing.

Do you not get to overrun/reform after destroying a unit by crumble? I haven't seen an answer for this anywhere, so i assumed you could.

I don't believe so as crumble happens after combat resolution has been decided.

Overrun happens as a result of a unit being completely destroyed before combat resolution is calculated.

No, you can definitely overrun a unit you have crumbled from combat res. Crumble is determined at the same time as the equivalent leadership check.

Okay, great. So what is the point of putting spirit hosts in the way then? A deathstar charging a spirit host will do 6CR (banner, ranks, BSB, Charge, potentially) even if it has no Magic attacks in the unit. Okay great. It paffs. Then it overruns and what? Hits another spirit host then mulches it in your CC phase? Or it doesn't over run and, not taking your feeble attempts at redirection, simply reforms to face the proper direction. I'm sorry I'm really not seeing the point here, my apologies for seeming obtuse.

Well he can angle the spirit host to where the Deathstar overruns away from the rest of his army.

Or doesn't overrun at all and simply reforms to face your army.

So? He charged you, so next turn you shove another spirit host or other chaff in front of him. 3 spirit hosts + him reforming and charging you = 6 turns of delay which minus movement is more than any game lasts

But... he charges a spirit host. Destroys it. Then overruns into the next spirit host. And kills it in your CC phase. Then kills that one with CR also. And overruns into the next. He has lost at most 2 turns. Unless you have these hosts staged at his flanks or something, ready to move into the way, but still... this doesn't seem like a viable plan.

You do not put them like dominoes. You put them so one can march infront of him what ever way he reforms/overruns

Oh, I think I have it. The geometry just wasn't working in my brain. Still, will take some cagey manuvering, but at least it gets 800+ pts of death star bound up for 3 turns.

And once he chews through that raise dead becomes your best friend

Here's another option: crypt horrors. Ironguts will get a lot less wounds through, and with poison and s4 the horrors can actually do some hurt, plus he doesn't get to stomp on you. If you have enough raise-spam, you can keep a crypt horror unit around for-bloody-ever.