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I like the looks of space marine scouts on paper in a BA army. Who uses scouts, how do you use them and how do you build an army with scouts?

This should help a bit:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=503

I personally run them as 7snipers and a heavy bolter. Though I've only just recently gotten and used them a few times, I had good experiences with them as they have good range, and taking more of them helps negate their lowered BS along with the HB. I simply plunked them down next to a midfield objective and shot at anything they could harm. First time I ever used them the HB took out a DSing speeder that flubbed it's MM rolls on my LR among other SM troops. Though it's not the standard target for them, or luck I'll ever see again with them, but because of their performance first time out they've earned their right to be fielded in my lists IMO.

I have Telion, but have yet to use him.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:I like the looks of space marine scouts on paper in a BA army. Who uses scouts, how do you use them and how do you build an army with scouts?

In a BA army i don't approve of them. They aren't troops. BA have better uses for their valuable non troop slots. Generally any unit that is one armies troop and not your troop means you probably shouldn't take them (look at vanilla assault marines for an example). Exception is SW scouts, as those are pretty good and worth the slot.

In C:SM I approve of their use. They are troops. They are more flexible and cheaper than tacs. They can outflank and can ride in land speeder storms.

One of the main problems with running scouts is they fact they don't have much heavy firepower. This means you need to support them with HS, FA and elite units. For elites, I recommend sternguard and dreads. For FA I recommend speeders (including the transport) bikers, and even scout bikers (even though their weapons and costs aren't all that appealing, they have some use in a deepstrike oriented army.) For HS I would go with devs (complements the mostly foot basis of the army) or predators (gives you AV 13 firesuport that can block LoS to your backfield scouts).

How to make scout squads: Firs thing to consider is the squads role. If they are meant to be a backfield objective holder give them riffles, ML, cloaks and possibly tellion if you don't mind pay the extra points (I wouldn't but I'm a cheap is better kinda guy). If you want a midfield scout movement blocker/ bait unit try out Bolters H/B (maybe cloaks, you don't really need them for this role though). If you want an outflanking or LSS riding unit, Use CC weapons, combi melta/PF sarge unit. As to the size of the squad, I like 5 mans, but SMs can combat squad and the 10 man squad avoids paying the sarge tax more often then you need to. Since you have complete control over every weapon your schmoes have, you can even mix roles in the same FOC slot. A 10 man 4 CCW 4 sniper squad with ML and PF/combi melta sarge is completely legit (if you don't outflank that is, reserve rules mess things up a bit) I personally am not that strapped for slots in troops unless I'm also taking bikes as troops so I usually go with the 5 man squads.

The downside is they aren't as skilled as regular marines and they have worse armor. The skill thing isn't that big a deal in my experience, they are there for what they can do not for how skilled their shooting is.

So what CAN they do? They aren't very powerful offensively after all. Well they hold objectives reasonably well with 3+ cloaked cover saves (or 2+ if they go to ground). They can block annoying scout units (they must stay 12 away from you after scout movement), which can be very useful against armies that like to go for first turn disables (think koptas and such). They allow you to respond to deployment even if you go first (infiltration). They can give you a first turn strike of your own with a LSS, they can outflank and kill your opponents fire support units (or at least tie them up for a turn or two), or force a change in his preferred deployment (2/3 chance to get the side you want means that castling in corner isn't that great).

I can't support a full 10th company army though. Just not enough punch to be a contender. But I think that a vanilla army with properly supported scouts is a pretty good list.

Remember you only need one model in the unit with the stealth special rule due to the FAQ on stealth so just buy one camo cloak for your Sgt.

I like to use Scouts quite a lot.In the main,they are built as BP CCW,with the Sarge having a PW and Meltabombs ( 31 attacks on the charge ).I need to get my hands on some more as i want to model a sarge or 2 with PF or combi-melta.

Shotguns on scouts make for a nice surprise for and opponent,20 shots ( if all are in range ) can mess up a units day at S 4,even with BS 3 and AP "-".

When Sniper Scouts make it into a list,i take Telion and an ML,always in a full unit of 10.

CappyBen wrote:Remember you only need one model in the unit with the stealth special rule due to the FAQ on stealth so just buy one camo cloak for your Sgt.

For some reason I could have sworn that the codex rule for getting camo cloaks required you to buy them for the whole squad. One of the reason why tellion is attractive is he naturally has stealth so gets around that.

In a BA army i don't approve of them. They aren't troops. BA have better uses for their valuable non troop slots. Generally any unit that is one armies troop and not your troop means you probably shouldn't take them (look at vanilla assault marines for an example). Exception is SW scouts, as those are pretty good and worth the slot.

Ummm they are a troop choice.

That's correct when're codec gives the. It's of the cammo cloak as variable on the number of models in the squad, it is not an individual option. So you can't just buy 1 cloak, the is the reason telion is so great in essence he only costs 35 points and guide and electing his wounds are worth it alone.

OK, yes, buy the Telion model though he may be a waste as you play BA.
Non scoring scouts turn out to be quite all right. Dark angels actually hit sometimes and having a 3+ cover save and a ranged weapon means they fit with a deathwing army. Space wolf scouts are amazing.

5 snipers sitting with 3 dev. squads and a priest make a very happy combination. Scoring, FNP, and nice ranged firepower. In this scenario they are better than the dev. squads as you can change this plan to deploy elsewhere with a better killing zone in times of DoW or just bad deployment areas.

Steel Angel wrote:

In a BA army i don't approve of them. They aren't troops. BA have better uses for their valuable non troop slots. Generally any unit that is one armies troop and not your troop means you probably shouldn't take them (look at vanilla assault marines for an example). Exception is SW scouts, as those are pretty good and worth the slot.

Ummm they are a troop choice.

They are? It's been awhile since i've looked. Probably was thinking of SW and DA.

Anyways with how good assault marines, esp how the synergy of BA works (cheap transports, FNP bubbles ect) I don't like them all that much.

BA can use scouts as troops. It they have 3's for ws and bs. DA scouts are elites and have 4's for ws and bs. I really wanted people to discuss how they use scouts. I have lots of BA and I play for fun, so it's fun to field different armies just for the experience. I was think of using scouts as an advanced line to deep strike terminators and land speeders down apon. I am not so concerned with the winningness of scouts as I am to what sneaky Or dirty tricks you can do with them.

SW Scouts are probably the best of the lot with DA scouts coming second and everyone else's scouts being last...
I use my Wolf Scouts (SW) as opportunistic raiders.
Give them a meltagun and 2 power weapons then use them to tie up units like lootas or HWS or even wipe out an objective sitting unit.
They can also be useful to kill IG Command squads and disrupt parking lots and artillery...

notabot187 wrote:

Steel Angel wrote:

In a BA army i don't approve of them. They aren't troops. BA have better uses for their valuable non troop slots. Generally any unit that is one armies troop and not your troop means you probably shouldn't take them (look at vanilla assault marines for an example). Exception is SW scouts, as those are pretty good and worth the slot.

Ummm they are a troop choice.

They are? It's been awhile since i've looked. Probably was thinking of SW and DA.

Anyways with how good assault marines, esp how the synergy of BA works (cheap transports, FNP bubbles ect) I don't like them all that much.

BA scouts synergize great with a fnp bubble. In lists that use quad ml dev squads a priest can cover 2 dev squads and a scout squad. The scouts operate as a backfield objective holder. The priest can join the scout squad and gain the stealth usr. Last but not least they can go to ground. Good luck shooting a squad with a 2++ cover and 4+ fnp off an objective.

Schaden, I like that tactic, I will definatly have to try that one out. What about using a priest and scouts with homer to bring termies down also ?

In fact could deep strike a priest in termie armor down with a squad on top of the scouts.

~Lion~

Scouts are pretty awesome, actually. They rarely do anything game changing, but in a jumper/DoA army, they provide the valuable service of holding back-field objectives while the rest of your army does what it does best; charge forward and punk things in close combat.