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What would happen if the imperium fell? Disorder, chaos, or nothing?

allies333 wrote:What would happen if the imperium fell? Disorder, chaos, or nothing?

Not a whole lot, I'd imagine.

I am guessing someone or something would replace it. Orks might take a few planets, Chaos would try to run out of the gate, but I am sure the Eldar or some sort of human movement would be there just to stop that. There might be progress on new tech, they might lost some tech. Given enough time, and if Chaos is held at bay, I am sure things would go to how it was pre Empire. Some planets moving back to ferral worlds, some going away with no food shipped in, some doing even better with the yoke removed.
The Tau I am sure would step in fro the greater good.
But then, who knows, new boss, same as the old boss. I am sure some High Lord would try to unite everyone if it fell.

RicBlasko wrote:I am guessing someone or something would replace it. Orks might take a few planets, Chaos would try to run out of the gate, but I am sure the Eldar or some sort of human movement would be there just to stop that. There might be progress on new tech, they might lost some tech. Given enough time, and if Chaos is held at bay, I am sure things would go to how it was pre Empire. Some planets moving back to ferral worlds, some going away with no food shipped in, some doing even better with the yoke removed.
The Tau I am sure would step in fro the greater good.
But then, who knows, new boss, same as the old boss. I am sure some High Lord would try to unite everyone if it fell.

I am guessing he means more along the lines of the purging of humans from the galaxy.

im2randomghgh wrote:

RicBlasko wrote:I am guessing someone or something would replace it. Orks might take a few planets, Chaos would try to run out of the gate, but I am sure the Eldar or some sort of human movement would be there just to stop that. There might be progress on new tech, they might lost some tech. Given enough time, and if Chaos is held at bay, I am sure things would go to how it was pre Empire. Some planets moving back to ferral worlds, some going away with no food shipped in, some doing even better with the yoke removed.
The Tau I am sure would step in fro the greater good.
But then, who knows, new boss, same as the old boss. I am sure some High Lord would try to unite everyone if it fell.

I am guessing he means more along the lines of the purging of humans from the galaxy.

Then that begs the horribly colloquial question "Who dun it?"

Orks and Nids duke it out while the 'Crons sit back and watch their food source diwndle?

If the Imperium is gone, you can watch the Tau, Eldar, and all the other smaller races get ground into dust by the Orks and Nids.

It's really in everyones best interests that the Imperium stands, for now, at least.

Not really in then Orks or Nids best interest

If Imperium falls the galaxy will turn into one big eye of terror. As a result everybody dies, overrun by endless rides of immortal Chaos Daemons.

Not even Orks, Nids or Necrons will be able to stop them.

Within a generation of the Golden Throne's failure and the Emperor's death, the Fall of Mankind that began with the Horus Heresy will reach it's climax. Two-thirds of the galaxy will be plunged into a massively expanded Eye of Terror. Those Humans not worshipping Chaos will have their souls ripped out and their minds and bodies immolated by the birth of the fifth Chaos Power. The Tyranid fleets in the Eye will be cut off by the warp distortions from the Hive Mind, while only the Orks can hope to survive in the midst of the Immaterial tempest.

The Eldar will be doomed for good, since most of the Craftworlds are in Imperial space, just ignored, but they'll either be destroyed or be forced to follow Altansar's example. The Necrons will not survive the Immaterial tempest, and neither will the Dark Eldar.

The fifth Power will be a twisted version of the Emperor, reflecting the changes in Mankind since the Horus Heresy. Before, a pure and noble empire looking forward into the future. After, a crumbling empire struggling to retain it's noble purity while committing horrific deeds to maintain it's perceived perfection.

The surviving Humans will create a "Dark Imperium" in the expanded Eye, a theocracy ruled by the Chaos Powers and governed by Daemon Princes; on the plus side, it's open to all, Human or not, so long as they bow before the Powers of Chaos.

Not much will happen for at least a few centuries. The eye of terror might or might not expand but the galaxy is huge so a localised warprift, even if it is expanding, won't be of much relevance for the vast majority of worlds. Since people are neither stupid nor suicidial they will probably start to reorganise rather quickly into local alliances ( perhaps at a sector/subsector level? ) and the like. Sure, without the distribution of ressources many specialised worlds will starve but since travel is still possible ( although at a slower speed thanks to the loss of the astronomicon ) trade can help to ease such problems.
Protection against smaller threats can be organised by whatever local forces are avaiable. Larger threats, like tyranid hivefleets and ork whaags, which cannot be fought by a couple of worlds would be a very real, although relatively rare, problem.
Of course, with the general decline of technology and the arrival of the Tyranid Hivefleets and the ever present ork and chaos threat one has to wonder if that would be enough in the long term.
Still, a million worlds offer a large number of possibilities for survival. Perhaps, without the Mechanicus, technology will once again advance. Or perhaps technology will decline even more rapidly because
the idea of scientific research has been simply forgotten by too many people for a far too long time to be resurected.
The techlords are probably the least affected. They have their own holdings, their own armies and fleets. If they don't fight amongst themselfs then they scions of mars are likely those with the best
chance for survival and even growth.

KingDeath wrote:Not much will happen for at least a few centuries. The eye of terror might or might not expand but the galaxy is huge so a localised warprift, even if it is expanding, won't be of much relevance for the vast majority of worlds. Since people are neither stupid nor suicidial they will probably start to reorganise rather quickly into local alliances ( perhaps at a sector/subsector level? ) and the like. Sure, without the distribution of ressources many specialised worlds will starve but since travel is still possible ( although at a slower speed thanks to the loss of the astronomicon ) trade can help to ease such problems.
Protection against smaller threats can be organised by whatever local forces are avaiable. Larger threats, like tyranid hivefleets and ork whaags, which cannot be fought by a couple of worlds would be a very real, although relatively rare, problem.
Of course, with the general decline of technology and the arrival of the Tyranid Hivefleets and the ever present ork and chaos threat one has to wonder if that would be enough in the long term.
Still, a million worlds offer a large number of possibilities for survival. Perhaps, without the Mechanicus, technology will once again advance. Or perhaps technology will decline even more rapidly because
the idea of scientific research has been simply forgotten by too many people for a far too long time to be resurected.
The techlords are probably the least affected. They have their own holdings, their own armies and fleets. If they don't fight amongst themselfs then they scions of mars are likely those with the best
chance for survival and even growth.

You do realize that the Fall of Mankind is gonna be on a greater level than the Fall of the Eldar, right? Considering our unstable psyches and that theire are more of us than them, it's going to rip the Eye across the Imperium in an instant, just like how the Eye of Terror consumed the Eldar Empire in an instant.

I think for a damned long time no one would notice anything was amiss, a few decades in the least. After such a time it would be countless warlords all trying to vie for power to reorganize the imperium. I would imagine anywhere from 3-10 would end up in positions of significant power and hold vast tracks of space under their control. While all this is going on chaos is going to be in a perilous position, while it can expand outward to encompass everything, those in the Eye will need to do so fast. Without the imperium constantly fighting on Cadia it will fall, and chaos will probably just start sweeping by it and ignoring it, which will allow the Necrons to land and seal up the Eye like that had wanted to millions of years ago. Should they be successful chaos is going to either need to establish a new large base elsewhere, or, if the warp is truly sealed off forever, then chaos will simply dwindle out and die.

'Nids and orks will still be dealt with on a regional level because they usually come in small incursions, but wherever they come in force they are either going to win totally or be brutally massacred by the now focused power of these smaller empires. Assuming the 'Nids that have arrived as of now are a vanguard, then I expect them to start coming in much stronger wherever the new fleets appear, and going unopposed until a combined strength attack should occur to block them. Orks would be a very similar thing, Waagh-ing freely until it gets to big and is shut down by a coalition of the empires.

Tau would be in a much better position as the planets near them are already rather friendly to them and trade often. I would assume that whatever empire forms near them is a joint empire of Tau and human which is expanding rapidly to include a multitude of other races. To this extent, I would imagine the Eldar would ally with this empire and take some sort of refuge here. It would allow the Eldar to continue existing and in a haven, assuming they shared some of their technological prowess, and were willing to assist in times of need.

Necrons and Dark Eldar, I feel, are the least affected. Dark Eldar continue to raid and attack where they can, and Necrons, aside from a rush to shut of the warp forever with the Cadian pylons, will simply continue to arise at their steady pace, though with more tomb worlds being awakened by people as worlds marked as such are forgotten

Azure wrote:I think for a damned long time no one would notice anything was amiss, a few decades in the least. After such a time it would be countless warlords all trying to vie for power to reorganize the imperium. I would imagine anywhere from 3-10 would end up in positions of significant power and hold vast tracks of space under their control. While all this is going on chaos is going to be in a perilous position, while it can expand outward to encompass everything, those in the Eye will need to do so fast. Without the imperium constantly fighting on Cadia it will fall, and chaos will probably just start sweeping by it and ignoring it, which will allow the Necrons to land and seal up the Eye like that had wanted to millions of years ago. Should they be successful chaos is going to either need to establish a new large base elsewhere, or, if the warp is truly sealed off forever, then chaos will simply dwindle out and die.

'Nids and orks will still be dealt with on a regional level because they usually come in small incursions, but wherever they come in force they are either going to win totally or be brutally massacred by the now focused power of these smaller empires. Assuming the 'Nids that have arrived as of now are a vanguard, then I expect them to start coming in much stronger wherever the new fleets appear, and going unopposed until a combined strength attack should occur to block them. Orks would be a very similar thing, Waagh-ing freely until it gets to big and is shut down by a coalition of the empires.

Tau would be in a much better position as the planets near them are already rather friendly to them and trade often. I would assume that
whatever empire forms near them is a joint empire of Tau and human which is expanding rapidly to include a multitude of other races. To this extent, I would imagine the Eldar would ally with this empire and take some sort of refuge here. It would allow the Eldar to continue existing and in a haven, assuming they shared some of their technological prowess, and were willing to assist in times of need.

Necrons and Dark Eldar, I feel, are the least affected. Dark Eldar continue to raid and attack where they can, and Necrons, aside from a rush to shut of the warp forever with the Cadian pylons, will simply continue to arise at their steady pace, though with more tomb worlds being awakened by people as worlds marked as such are forgotten

True, it would take at least a generation for the unstable Human souls to reach critical mass in the warp, during which time all hell breaks loose in the galaxy. Then the whole thing really does go to hell. The galaxy's going to be in deep gak after the Imperium crumbles, and then in deeper gak after the unstable Human souls create an absolute monster of a Reborn Emperor.

That assumes that a reborn emperor is possible. The reason he was created is due to the fact that daemons kept eating the shaman souls that make up who he is today. Should he die, then the now even more turbulent warp is going to certainly reduce his power considerably for whenever he next reappears, if even he does.

But even assuming the reborn emperor is possible and he'll come back full strength, why would the imperium remnants be miserable? Warp travel is hellish now yes, the lack of astronomicon is a hindrance in the extreme, but warp travel isn't impossible, and is conducted all the time without the light

Tadashi wrote:

KingDeath wrote:Not much will happen for at least a few centuries. The eye of terror might or might not expand but the galaxy is huge so a localised warprift, even if it is expanding, won't be of much relevance for the vast majority of worlds. Since people are neither stupid nor suicidial they will probably start to reorganise rather quickly into local alliances ( perhaps at a sector/subsector level? ) and the like. Sure, without the distribution of ressources many specialised worlds will starve but since travel is still possible ( although at a slower speed thanks to the loss of the astronomicon ) trade can help to ease such problems.
Protection against smaller threats can be organised by whatever local forces are avaiable. Larger threats, like tyranid hivefleets and ork whaags, which cannot be fought by a couple of worlds would be a very real, although relatively rare, problem.
Of course, with the general decline of technology and the arrival of the Tyranid Hivefleets and the ever present ork and chaos threat one has to wonder if that would be enough in the long term.
Still, a million worlds offer a large number of possibilities for survival. Perhaps, without the Mechanicus, technology will once again advance. Or perhaps technology will decline even more rapidly because
the idea of scientific research has been simply forgotten by too many people for a far too long time to be resurected.
The techlords are probably the least affected. They have their own holdings, their own armies and fleets. If they don't fight amongst themselfs then they scions of mars are likely those with the best
chance for survival and even growth.

You do realize that the Fall of Mankind is gonna be on a greater level than the Fall of the Eldar, right? Considering our unstable psyches and that theire are more of us than them, it's going to rip the Eye across the Imperium in an instant, just like how the Eye of Terror consumed the Eldar Empire in an instant.

I don't think so. Mankind's psychic potential is comparatively weak and still largely inactive. The number of Eldar, which are were all active psykers, within the Eldar Empire has never been stated.
The removal of the imperial leadership wouldn't change a thing in that regard. In time, with more and more active psykers appearing, something similar to the Fall might be possible but for the moment there
are no indications that the worlds of the imperium are in danger of suffering something comparable.

KingDeath wrote:

I don't think so. Mankind's psychic potential is comparatively weak and still largely inactive. The number of Eldar, which are were all active psykers, within the Eldar Empire has never been stated.
The removal of the imperial leadership wouldn't change a thing in that regard. In time, with more and more active psykers appearing, something similar to the Fall might be possible but for the moment there
are no indications that the worlds of the imperium are in danger of suffering something comparable.

I'm not concerned about Human psykers...but about unstable Human souls. While in potency they are lacking compared to Eldar, the unstable nature of Human souls has a greater effect on the warp. One reason the Powers prefer Humans.

Tadashi wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

I don't think so. Mankind's psychic potential is comparatively weak and still largely inactive. The number of Eldar, which are were all active psykers, within the Eldar Empire has never been stated.
The removal of the imperial leadership wouldn't change a thing in that regard. In time, with more and more active psykers appearing, something similar to the Fall might be possible but for the moment there
are no indications that the worlds of the imperium are in danger of suffering something comparable.

I'm not concerned about Human psykers...but about unstable Human souls. While in potency they are lacking compared to Eldar, the unstable nature of Human souls has a greater effect on the warp. One reason the Powers prefer Humans.

Only because since the Fall, the Eldar have trained themselves to resist chaos influences and power. I'm pretty sure that the fall of the Eldar empire, before they learnt to restrain themselves was much more extensive than a fall of man ever would be. It created Slaanesh and the Eye of Terror. Besides, what sources say that the fall of man inevitably leads to a fifth god of chaos?

Azure wrote:That assumes that a reborn emperor is possible. The reason he was created is due to the fact that daemons kept eating the shaman souls that make up who he is today. Should he die, then the now even more turbulent warp is going to certainly reduce his power considerably for whenever he next reappears, if even he does.

But even assuming the reborn emperor is possible and he'll come back full strength, why would the imperium remnants be miserable? Warp travel is hellish now yes, the lack of astronomicon is a hindrance in the extreme, but warp travel isn't impossible, and is conducted all the time without the light

Thing is, the Emperor's been pretty much twisted by the worship of Him as the uncaring 'God-Emperor'. Probably one reason the Emperor didn't want that to happen; He must have the known the effect it would have on Him. When He dies, He'll become the God-Emperor - the fifth, last, and greatest of the Powers, the one the others have been waiting for - and create the Chaos Imperium - a twisted parody of what the Imperium originally was and what is foreseen in the current Imperium.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

I don't think so. Mankind's psychic potential is comparatively weak and still largely inactive. The number of Eldar, which are were all active psykers, within the Eldar Empire has never been stated.
The removal of the imperial leadership wouldn't change a thing in that regard. In time, with more and more active psykers appearing, something similar to the Fall might be possible but for the moment there
are no indications that the worlds of the imperium are in danger of suffering something comparable.

I'm not concerned about Human psykers...but about unstable Human souls. While in potency they are lacking compared to Eldar, the unstable nature of Human souls has a greater effect on the warp. One reason the Powers prefer Humans.

Only because since the Fall, the Eldar have trained themselves to resist chaos influences and power. I'm pretty sure that the fall of the Eldar empire, before they learnt to restrain themselves was much more extensive than a fall of man ever would be. It created Slaanesh and the Eye of Terror. Besides, what sources say that the fall of man inevitably leads to a fifth god of chaos?

Everything about the results of the Emperor's death implies as much...

I think you've been mislead. No one that I know of in the imperium worships him as uncaring, why would you? He is always seen as the father of mankind and always there in times of good and in times of bad. He wanted to be rid of worship because he feared it would lead to chaos, which it has

Azure wrote:I think you've been mislead. No one that I know of in the imperium worships him as uncaring, why would you? He is always seen as the father of mankind and always there in times of good and in times of bad. He wanted to be rid of worship because he feared it would lead to chaos, which it has

Actually, the Imperium does consider the God-Emperor as aloof and untouchable, and the complete opposite of what He actually was and what he wanted. Although it can be argued that the oldest Chapters still remember Him as He was, a very charismatic (if not very diplomatic) man who actually cared for His people, not like the God- Emperor most people believe.

Crazyterran wrote:If the Imperium is gone, you can watch the Tau, Eldar, and all the other smaller races get ground into dust by the Orks and Nids.

It's really in everyones best interests that the Imperium stands, for now, at least.

Not really. If that happened, the orks would have to start fighting humanities enemies like daemons and tyranids and they'd be quite busy. Since more or less every ork anywhere near the tau is already in the war of dakka, they wouldn't attack them any harder, and the eldar are very slippery because of their forsight and their speed.