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3 questions on this ability:

#1) If a BA drop pod arrives first turn with a dreanaught in it, does both the drop pod count as a target as well as the dreadnaught that disembarked from it? i.e. I get to shoot each seperately?

#2) if I moved on my turn, but the enemy arrives on their "turn" am I allowed to fire heavy weapons with the above rule? (as an aside, if say somehow deathmarks arrives on my shooting phase but I moved, does the out of sequence line allow me to fire at them anyway with heavy weapons? never happened but just curious)

#3) does the rule extend to the transport he is in?

1. Not sure
2. Not sure.
3. No, if Coteaz is embarked he cannot use this ability.

First of all, Coteaz cannot use this from inside a transport. He must be outside of it.

1.) I would say yes. "I've Been Expecting You" states that you can make a shooting attack at each unit that arrives from reserve. Both the dreadnought and the dop pod are arriving from reserve, even though you only made 1 reserve rol for them. It goes on to say that there is no limit to how many times this may be used in a phase. This may be incorrect, but this is the way I see it.

2.) That's tough. There are no permissions to fire if you moved, but you moved in your turn. The Heavy Weapons rules state that you may not fire if you moved at all that turn. That would indicate your turn. So, if the reserves are arriving in your opponent's turn, you're no longer restricted by how far you moved in your previous turn.

3.) See my above comment.

i am with Puma the rule says he can shoot multiple times and the Dreadnaught is compelled to disembark immedeately.

I don't see that movement in the previous turn would have any effect.

Not sure I agree if he is embarked he can't use the ability as I can't find a rule that precludes it? I would have said the transport he is in isn't part of his unit so it can't fire.

1) YES

the way the rule is worded you get to fire at every unit that arrived from reserves. If a drop pod with 10 marines who then proceeded to combat squad on arrival landed nearby, you can shoot at the Pod, combat squad 1 and combat squad 2. You may also fire in any order, so you can fire at the pod, blow it up and then shoot at the unit behind the pod as well, provided they are all in range.


2) YES

Heavy weapon can not fire on the TURN that they moved. TURN always refers to a Player Turn. If they mean Game Turn they will say Game Turn. Since you did not move during the enemy player turn you are able to fire heavy weapons. If a target presents itself on your turn and you did move, then the restriction for heavy weapons would apply.

3) NO

Coteaz and his unit are able to make the shooting attacks. Coteaz is not part of the same unit as his transport.

Magpie wrote:

Not sure I agree if he is embarked he can't use the ability as I can't find a rule that precludes it? I would have said the transport he is in isn't part of his unit so it can't fire.

Games Workshop FAQ wrote:Q: Can models embarked upon a vehicle use its fire
points to draw line of sight to a unit to use special
rules or wargear (other than shooting)? (p66)

A: No.

The above FAQ means that Coteaz would not be able to use his rule to draw LOS to something deep striking, which is what allows him and his unit to fire.

svendrex wrote:

Coteaz and his unit are able to make the shooting attacks. Coteaz is not part of the same unit as his transport.

See above.

So basically, if I am reading this correctly, Coteaz's special rule is, in effect, a variation on the old "Overwatch" rule without the movement/fire restrictions.

Is that a correct interpretation?

1) Answered in the FAQ, page 3 GK FAQ.

Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or
Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for
Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule?
(p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit
will be able to fire once at each unit.



2) Answered above.

3) Answered above.

Hmm still not sold on the FAQ applying here I mean the question specifically excludes shooting situations.

For coteaz to shoot, his power must go off he's forbidden from drawing LoS for his power. Since his power requires LoS, it can't work - which means he can't shoot.

He has permission to draw LoS for the shooting attack, but before he's allowed to shoot he has to have LoS to trigger his rule. And as his rule isn't a shooting attack itself, he can't use the firepoint to check LoS for it. So he can't shoot because he can't satisfy the preconditions that would grant him permission to shoot under his rule.

That is just silly the rule doesn't grant him the ability to draw line of sight it just merely requires that he has it. It grants the ability to shoot.

I am having trouble working out what the FAQ would apply to in any case, what special abilities and wargear, other than shooting, need an LOS?

Magpie wrote:That is just silly the rule doesn't grant him the ability to draw line of sight it just merely requires that he has it. It grants the ability to shoot.

I am having trouble working out what the FAQ would apply to in any case, what special abilities and wargear, other than shooting, need an LOS?

A few of Njal's powers under the tempest, Anrakyr's Mind in the Machine and Nemesor's Adaptive Tactics, from memory.

For him to be allowed to shoot out of sequence, he has to be able to see who is deep-striking around him. If he is not allowed to draw LOS through a firepoint, then how does he see who is deep-striking for the rule to trigger?

1: Yes, you get to fire at each unit that arrived from reserves. The Drop Pod and whatever came out of it are 2-3 different units.

2: Yes, Heavy Weapons may not be fired in the same turn as they moved. The FAQ specifies that whenever a rule refers to Turn, unless specified otherwise, it means Player Turn. Did the heavy weapons move on this Player Turn? No!

3: No, see puma713s post

puma713 wrote:

Magpie wrote:That is just silly the rule doesn't grant him the ability to draw line of sight it just merely requires that he has it. It grants the ability to shoot.

I am having trouble working out what the FAQ would apply to in any case, what special abilities and wargear, other than shooting, need an LOS?

A few of Njal's powers under the tempest, Anrakyr's Mind in the Machine and Nemesor's Adaptive Tactics, from memory.

For him to be allowed to shoot out of sequence, he has to be able to see who is deep-striking around him. If he is not allowed to draw LOS through a firepoint, then how does he see who is deep-striking for the rule to trigger?

Sure I get that what I am saying is that the FAQ doesn't apply to shooting situations as the Q itself says "(other than shooting)". I don't see how you can divorce LOS from shooting.
If you do I guess all shooting from transports is banned because you are not allowed to draw LOS to use wargear according to the FAQ and weapons are wargear.

I also note that the no LOS think is specifically contradicted in the FAQ in the case of a Psyker who CAN draw LOS for non shooting attacks from a vehicle, but that is more about consistency.

Magpie wrote:Sure I get that what I am saying is that the FAQ doesn't apply to shooting situations as the Q itself says "(other than shooting)". I don't see how you can divorce LOS from shooting.
If you do I guess all shooting from transports is banned because you are not allowed to draw LOS to use wargear according to the FAQ and weapons are wargear.

The rule "I've Been Expecting You" is not shooting. Therefore it never triggers while inside a transport (BRB FAQ). You are never given the option to shoot so there is no interference.

If a unit lands within 12" you can immediately make an out of sequence shooting attack?

How is that not shooting?

Magpie wrote:If a unit lands within 12" you can immediately make an out of sequence shooting attack?

How is that not shooting?

Make sure you quote all relevant text in YMDC:

"If an enemy arrives from reserve within 12" of Coteaz and within his line of sight, Coteaz and his unit can immediately make an out-of-sequence shooting attack against it."

So, for "I've Been Expecting You" to even trigger, two conditions must be met:

1) An enemy must be arriving within 12" of him.
2) Within his line of sight.

The FAQ specifically denies him drawing Line of Sight to meet the second condition. This is a simple logical if-then statement. If (two conditions are met), then (shooting attack). One of the two conditions cannot be met whilst inside a transport.

Edit: You're confusing the LOS from the actual shooting attack with the LOS needed to trigger the rule. The two are not the same. Before you can even make the shooting attack (and, consequently draw LOS for it), you have to have LOS for the rule alone.

Fair enough, still seems daft but fair enough.

Magpie wrote:If a unit lands within 12" you can immediately make an out of sequence shooting attack?

How is that not shooting?

Because the rule itself is not shooting. Triggering the rule allows you to shoot.....which never happens while inside a vehicle.

Yes got that, twice in fact. It just looks at odds with the Psykers ruling to me

Magpie wrote:Yes got that, twice in fact. It just looks at odds with the Psykers ruling to me

Difference between the two is that Psykers have specific permission to draw LOS from firepoints for Psychic powers, whereas FAQ removed the ability to draw LOS through firepoints for special rules / wargear.

Interesting, there goes my metal box for the guy idea.

On the flip side, if say I was at a board edge, a transport came on near by and I kill it, do I now get to shoot again at the disembarked troops?

This feels similar to the dreadnaught but also somewhat different as there is no compulsory disembarking (except for the blowing up transport part)

@Ludie yes mate I know the ruling exisits I just wonder at the rationale of allowing one but not the other.

@sudojoe I think maybe that because these attacks can only be wrought against units entering via deep strike you can't. The vehicle has already deeply struck along with the passengers. The passengers are now debarking because of a combat result.
If it wasn't like this ol' mate could keep shooting a unit repeatedly until they were all dead.

Yeah, no shooting at guys you blow out of their transport.

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, no shooting at guys you blow out of their transport.

darn, guess the drop pod is just too different from the other dedicated transports.

Frankly though the RAW would still apply since that squad inside the destroyed transport "Did arrive that turn from reserve" and likely still in LOS of coteaz... and he can shoot many times... oh well.

I personally don't think the BRB counters this at all since you can shoot sequentially. I.e. I blow up the transport, another unit shoots down the squad inside. You would treat the "newly" arrived out of their box as a seperate unit since for most purposes, the transport is counted seperately as a unit from the unit they are transporting. I'd argue that you couldn't draw LOS to the origional unit so you couldn't fire at them then but now you can fufill LOS, and they are still arriving, the rule suddenly works again.

The FAQ does even allow him to even interrupt unit movements so you can stop a whole flank with the guy potentially before they can even move out of the way.

They arrived, they are no longer arriving.

it says "arrives" I'm not familar with the english grammer to accurately assign arriving and arrived differences in this case so I'm just not sure how to interperate that. Given that the dread arrived also from the drop pod, I'm just not seeing as clear cut a difference here. Apologies in advance for the word confusion on "arrives" differences. I actually don't know it. Not trying to fight.

The thing is the drop pod arrives and immedeately the doors open and the Dread gets out. It has now finished arriving. You shoot the both of them

With the rhino it lands on the table and it has finished arriving. You shoot it.

The blokes get out, they are not arriving because they did that before you shot.

Magpie wrote:The thing is the drop pod arrives and immedeately the doors open and the Dread gets out. It has now finished arriving. You shoot the both of them

With the rhino it lands on the table and it has finished arriving. You shoot it.

The blokes get out, they are not arriving because they did that before you shot.

ahh but the FAQ specifically says that units arrive, get shot at then get to complete the move. They don't have to finish "arriving" for you to shoot them.



Q: When are the shooting attacks from Inquisitor
Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule fired?
(p45)
A: They are fired as soon as a unit that is a valid target
is placed on the board. Once the shooting attacks have
been resolved, the unit can complete its move. If the
unit is arriving by Deep Strike, this will be after the
scatter has been resolved.
Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or
Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for
Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule?
(p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit
will be able to fire once at each unit.