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They have finished arriving (or being placed on the board), then they get shot then they keep moving if they want or can.

Ugg I had the same problem with them with my Turbo boosting reavers coming in from reserve.

so many questions

do they arrive at the board edge or do they arrive where their move ends.

If they arrive at the board edge and he shoots, do they get their 3+ cover save for turboing?

Do the bladevanes hit cortez before he shoots or after he shoots or simo?

he shoots them as soon as they come within 12" as long as this movement was also part of them coming on from reserves.

So if you outflank and move to within 12" of him when you come on you will stop as soon as you are within 12", resolve the shooting, and then complete your movement.

Not sure I agree with that, I see what you are saying but my thought was that he had to shoot if he was able to see them the moment they entered the board, i.e. their entry point or where they deep strike to and so forth.

If they land and then move to within 12" I reckon he can't shoot them.

Frankly I feel like I need another FAQ just to explain the FAQ. Luckily the threat of cotez has minimzed people even attempting to get close so this hasn't really come up in play but I would like to know how to use it in those situations when it's still pretty ambigious especially if Tau are more popular again and we get alot of outflanking kroot

sudojoe wrote:Frankly I feel like I need another FAQ just to explain the FAQ.

LOL, yes they seem to have just stirred the muddy waters.

i have a similar problem with De Venom and some firedragons inside this transport

let`s assume that the venom scatters to the 12" range and in line of site of Coteaz , and Coteaz is attached to a centurions unit they get to make is "I've been expecting you" thing to this transport arriving from reserves, forcing the firedragons to an emergency disembarkation.

since the firedragons are disembarking from a deep strike arriving from reserves transport they are themselves also arriving from reserves, once their disembark is over and they are in line of site of Coteaz and within the 12" range, i do believe that i am allowed to use Coteaz ability on them too

right ..


thanks

The unit arrived from reserves at the same time as the transport, but because they were embarked on the transport they were not in range or line of sight of Coteaz and his unit.

An emergency disembarkation is not arriving from reserves, so by the time this happens the opportunity for Coteaz to use I've Been Expecting You has already passed.

Yet people state disembarking from a drop pod allows Cotez to shoot at the Disembarking Unit.
Why would emergency disembarking be different?

MADCF wrote:
let`s assume that the venom scatters to the 12" range and in line of site of Coteaz , and Coteaz is attached to a centurions unit they get to make is "I've been expecting you" thing to this transport arriving from reserves, forcing the firedragons to an emergency disembarkation.

How does one do an emergency disembark after Deep Striking? In order to be forced to use an emergency disembark, it is all too likely that the Deep Strike would have Mishapped.

If the Transport is Wrecked, the unit performs a standard Disembark. Emergency Disembark occurs when all the entry points are blocked by enemy units. Oddly enough, this means that one cannot emergency disembark from Codex Dark Eldar Transports.

JinxDragon wrote:
Yet people state disembarking from a drop pod allows Cotez to shoot at the Disembarking Unit.
Why would emergency disembarking be different?

The disembarking from a Drop Pod is part of the Drop Pod rules, and the timing is associated with a successful Deep Strike. The timing of a regular Deep Strike Disembark is a little more fuzzy.

Coteaz has a special rule which states him and his unit can make an immediate out of sequence shooting attack at any enemy unit that arrives from reserves within 12" of Coteaz himself. There's NO LIMIT to the amount of times this can be used each turn.

so immediately after arriving from reserves this vennon is "expected" by Coteaz and his unit so you don´t have the chance of doing anything in you movement phase you are "expected" and in this case by Coteaz and his centurions buddies and the venom is trashed forcing the emergency disembarkation of the firedragons

so we have two units arriving by deep strike coming from reserves

i cannot target one of the units because i cannot see her ( firedragons inside the venom )

i target the unit i can see inside the 12 " range of Coteaz ability ( venom )
then this unit is destroyed

then the other unit coming from reserves fulfilling all the conditions of Coteaz "i´ve been expecting you " becomes possible of targeting ...

so i do believe that i can shot at her and the moment for doing it doesn´t goes away , its an "out of the sequence shooting attack" made during my opponents movement phase immediately after arriving from deep strike but it does not ends there the moment its my opponents movement phase before he can do anything else ( orders psychic powers back then when they were made in the movement phase )

playing Coteaz with drop pods we use the same logic and target the drop pod and their cargo separably using the " There's NO LIMIT to the amount of times this can be used each turn. "
and therefore shooting both units

and the only reason i don´t target both units its because i cannot see one of them , with drop pods i am obliged to disembark per the drop pod rule ( yes i very much would prefer to stay inside ) but if the unit has disembarked ... why can´t i shoot her ...

i believe i can

need more opinions

thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
found another discussion on the subject on a different thread , maybe we can bring something from there


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662025.page#8102917

 Grey Templar wrote:
he shoots them as soon as they come within 12" as long as this movement was also part of them coming on from reserves.

So if you outflank and move to within 12" of him when you come on you will stop as soon as you are within 12", resolve the shooting, and then complete your movement.

this is not true.

They have to arrive within 12". If a models arrives 13" away and moves they have passed the point of arriving, and are moving. Ie outflank.

if a model arrives from DS, or a DSing vehicle within 13" then runs to within 12" they have passed the point of arriving and are running.

Neither of the above would trigger coteazs rule.

if they arrive outside of 12" they can move in and coteaz ability does nothing.

If a pod lands in 12" and the dread comes out the back 13.5" away coteaz+unit can shoot the pod, but cannot do anything to the dread as it is placed(Arrived) more than 12" away. The unit has to arrive(be placed) from reserves within 12" not arrive by any means within 12". A model moving that was on the table the whole time within 12" would not trigger his ability, because simply "arriving" as english could be used is not the trigger, its arriving from reserves within 12". Movement is not part of coming from reserves, which is the same reason DSing skimmers cannot ignore mishaps by using skimmer rules, because movement and DSing are different. The point the model is placed or enters the table is the point that has to be within 12".

You do realize that this was a three and a half year-old thread until it was risen from the dead? Grey Templar's post is referring to a different edition of the game.

 Ghaz wrote:
You do realize that this was a three and a half year-old thread until it was risen from the dead? Grey Templar's post is referring to a different edition of the game.

yep did not notice that, thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MADCF wrote:
Coteaz has a special rule which states him and his unit can make an immediate out of sequence shooting attack at any enemy unit that arrives from reserves within 12" of Coteaz himself. There's NO LIMIT to the amount of times this can be used each turn.

so immediately after arriving from reserves this vennon is "expected" by Coteaz and his unit so you don´t have the chance of doing anything in you movement phase you are "expected" and in this case by Coteaz and his centurions buddies and the venom is trashed forcing the emergency disembarkation of the firedragons

so we have two units arriving by deep strike coming from reserves

i cannot target one of the units because i cannot see her ( firedragons inside the venom )

i target the unit i can see inside the 12 " range of Coteaz ability ( venom )
then this unit is destroyed

then the other unit coming from reserves fulfilling all the conditions of Coteaz "i´ve been expecting you " becomes possible of targeting ...

so i do believe that i can shot at her and the moment for doing it doesn´t goes away , its an "out of the sequence shooting attack" made during my opponents movement phase immediately after arriving from deep strike but it does not ends there the moment its my opponents movement phase before he can do anything else ( orders psychic powers back then when they were made in the movement phase )

playing Coteaz with drop pods we use the same logic and target the drop pod and their cargo separably using the " There's NO LIMIT to the amount of times this can be used each turn. "
and therefore shooting both units

and the only reason i don´t target both units its because i cannot see one of them , with drop pods i am obliged to disembark per the drop pod rule ( yes i very much would prefer to stay inside ) but if the unit has disembarked ... why can´t i shoot her ...

i believe i can

need more opinions

thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
found another discussion on the subject on a different thread , maybe we can bring something from there


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662025.page#8102917

I think the issue is the dread is required to disembark immediately upon arrival. So it is deployed arring from reserves from the deep striking transport at the same time as the transport as far as the game rules are concerned.

The models embarked on the venom however are not in LOS at the time they arrive from DS since they are not required to disembark. When they come into LOS is past when they arrived from reserves embarked, despite it being very close to after the transport being blown up. Despite it being past arriving, at the time the fire dragons arrived they are out of your LoS, whereas the dread which is required to disembark on arriving is in your LoS. When the venom is blown up, they are past arriving, as they have been placed- have arrived, and only one of the two units is within 12" and in LoS. The unit in the transport is not an eligible target for the rule when it arrives from reserves in the case of the firedragons embarked, the dreadnaut is because it does not arrive embarked [it must immediately disembark on arrival] So the arrival of the drop pod + dread puts two units out which may be within 12" and LOS before you use the coteaz ability. The venom + firedragons when it arrives and is placed puts one model out if the owner does not choose to disembark the firedragons. So only one eligible target unit after your opponent places models for that arriving unit (the venom).

Wow, I am usually good at catching necromantic threads...
I did not notice at all here.

MADCF wrote:
Coteaz has a special rule which states him and his unit can make an immediate out of sequence shooting attack at any enemy unit that arrives from reserves within 12" of Coteaz himself. There's NO LIMIT to the amount of times this can be used each turn.

There's no numerical limit, however it can only occur when a unit arrives from reserves, and does so within 12" and within line of sight and range of Coteaz's unit's weapons.

then the other unit coming from reserves fulfilling all the conditions of Coteaz "i´ve been expecting you " becomes possible of targeting ...

No. The unit has already arrived at that point. They arrived at the same time as the Venom, and when that occurred Coteaz and his unit were not able to draw line of sight to the unit.

so i do believe that i can shot at her and the moment for doing it doesn´t goes away , its an "out of the sequence shooting attack" made during my opponents movement phase immediately after arriving from deep strike but it does not ends there the moment its my opponents movement phase before he can do anything else ( orders psychic powers back then when they were made in the movement phase )

The Fire Dragons and Venom arrived at the same time. The Fire Dragons are forced into an emergency disembarkation after they've arrived; by this time they are not eligible targets for I've Been Expecting you because they have already arrived.

playing Coteaz with drop pods we use the same logic and target the drop pod and their cargo separably using the " There's NO LIMIT to the amount of times this can be used each turn. "
and therefore shooting both units

and the only reason i don´t target both units its because i cannot see one of them , with drop pods i am obliged to disembark per the drop pod rule ( yes i very much would prefer to stay inside ) but if the unit has disembarked ... why can´t i shoot her ...

I don't think this is true even in the case of Drop Pods. The unit is required to disembark after the Drop Pod lands, but again, this occurs after they arrive with the Drop Pod.

i believe i can

need more opinions

It sounds more like you've already decided you can, and you want someone to clearly prove you wrong. The rules for 'Combine Reserve Units' says that units embarked on a transport in reserve arrive together with the transport:

"Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together."

They arrive together, at the same time. Disembarking or an emergency disembark after the transport arrived cannot be the unit arriving from reserves, because they already arrived together with the transport before.

Not at all but i've been using coteaz occasionally for the last 3years and although he was used mainly against other marines, it was always"expecting" everything that arrived /come out of a drop pod drop pod included and it saddens me that I might been using him wrong (as well like every one else I know) ...

So what's your calls

1. "expecting" everything, transport and disembarked cargo
2. " expecting" only the transports
3. "expecting" only the transport and the pesky marines because they automatically disembarked

And why

Thanks

MADCF wrote:
Not at all but i've been using coteaz occasionally for the last 3years and although he was used mainly against other marines, it was always"expecting" everything that arrived /come out of a drop pod drop pod included and it saddens me that I might been using him wrong (as well like every one else I know) ...

So what's your calls

1. "expecting" everything, transport and disembarked cargo
2. " expecting" only the transports
3. "expecting" only the transport and the pesky marines because they automatically disembarked

And why

Thanks

Only the transports, because while both transport and embarked unit arrive together (as stated in 'Combined Reserve Units') Coteaz and his unit are unable to see the embarked unit at the time they arrive. Automatic disembarking occurs after they have arrived together.

In sequence it basically goes:

1. Reserves arrive.
2. Transport and embarked unit arrive together.
3. Place transport/roll for scatter as appropriate.
4. I've Been Expecting You versus transport. Unable to draw line of sight to embarked unit.

The unit being forced to disembark, either as a result of Drop Pod Assault or because their transport has been destroyed, occurs after the units have arrived. We know this because we're told the embarked unit and transport arrive together. If they arrive together, any action taken by the embarked unit after the transport has arrived and been placed (such as disembarking) must be after they have arrived, and I've Been Expecting You must be resolved immediately when they arrive.

Wouldn't the Shooting Sequence prevent it from being used too often? A Weapon can only be selected to fire once per Phase, after all.

I thought that a unit which disembarks from a deep-striking transport itself counted as deep striking?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I thought that a unit which disembarks from a deep-striking transport itself counted as deep striking?

They do for various things.

I think the issue is, IIRC, that Coteaz's ability is worded is it works when they unit arrives within 12". Which an embarked unit does arrive within 12", however being embarked it is not in LOS so barring the possibility of weapons which ignore LOS the time that his ability triggers the unit cannot be chosen as a valid target due to not being in LOS. IE it has arrived, but when it arrives it is not in LOS. By the time the unit disembarks it is passed the "when it arrives" as it arrived already. So the embarked unit only fulfills one of the two things his ability needs to go off.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I thought that a unit which disembarks from a deep-striking transport itself counted as deep striking?

From memory the rules don't actually come out and say that, although they are prohibited from performing most actions that Deep Striking units are also prohibited from performing.

Regardless, we know they arrive together with their transport and that Coteaz's ability must be used immediately after the unit arrives, so disembarking in between means Coteaz's ability is not being used immediately after the unit arrives, making it not possible.

 sudojoe wrote:

Magpie wrote:The thing is the drop pod arrives and immedeately the doors open and the Dread gets out. It has now finished arriving. You shoot the both of them

With the rhino it lands on the table and it has finished arriving. You shoot it.

The blokes get out, they are not arriving because they did that before you shot.

ahh but the FAQ specifically says that units arrive, get shot at then get to complete the move. They don't have to finish "arriving" for you to shoot them.



Q: When are the shooting attacks from Inquisitor
Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule fired?
(p45)
A: They are fired as soon as a unit that is a valid target
is placed on the board. Once the shooting attacks have
been resolved, the unit can complete its move. If the
unit is arriving by Deep Strike, this will be after the
scatter has been resolved.
Q: Does a squad disembarking from a Drop Pod, or
Mycetic Spore, count as arriving from reserve for
Inquisitor Coteaz’s I’ve Been Expecting You special rule?
(p45)
A: Yes, this means that Inquisitor Coteaz and his unit
will be able to fire once at each unit.

Based on that the order of operations should be:

1) Drop Pod lands
2) Coteaz shoots at the Drop Pod since it has been placed on the board
3a) Drop Pod survives and passengers disembark as per Drop Pod Assault special rule
3b) Drop Pod is destroyed and passengers disembark according to Transport special rule - if it explodes it might kill some of the passengers, too
4) Coteaz shoots at the now disembarked passengers.

The same should apply to any transport that just arrived on the board. I wouldn't have ruled it that way, but if the FAQ says that units disembarking from a Drop Pod get shot, anything that disembarks from a transport on that turn should get shot at.
Technically - and I think that's pretty stupid - even the following scenario triggers Coteaz ability based on that FAQ:

Rhino moves in from reserves at 14 inches distance from Coteaz, then proceeds to drive 6 inches closer to Coteaz and the Tactical Marines inside disembark. Coteaz ignores the Rhino but shoots the now freshly arrived Marines - or did I miss something that prevents that from happening?

nekooni wrote:
Based on that the order of operations should be:

1) Drop Pod lands
2) Coteaz shoots at the Drop Pod since it has been placed on the board
3a) Drop Pod survives and passengers disembark as per Drop Pod Assault special rule
3b) Drop Pod is destroyed and passengers disembark according to Transport special rule - if it explodes it might kill some of the passengers, too
4) Coteaz shoots at the now disembarked passengers.

The same should apply to any transport that just arrived on the board. I wouldn't have ruled it that way, but if the FAQ says that units disembarking from a Drop Pod get shot, anything that disembarks from a transport on that turn should get shot at.
Technically - and I think that's pretty stupid - even the following scenario triggers Coteaz ability based on that FAQ:

Rhino moves in from reserves at 14 inches distance from Coteaz, then proceeds to drive 6 inches closer to Coteaz and the Tactical Marines inside disembark. Coteaz ignores the Rhino but shoots the now freshly arrived Marines - or did I miss something that prevents that from happening?

That post was from February 2012, back in... 5th edition?

 Mr. Shine wrote:

That post was from February 2012, back in... 5th edition?

I honestly didn't notice that. Although just to further argue the point: The Inquisition Codex still has the same rule for Coteaz, right [I only own the current 2014 one, can't check]? So the FAQ (which isn't an errata, just "explaining the existing rule better") still has some value i'd say.

Nope. Its no longer a valid FAQ.

The current rule reads:

"If an enemy unit arrives from reserves within 12" of Coteaz and within his line of sight, Coteaz and his unit can immediately make an out-of-sequence shooting attack against it."

Given transport and embarked unit arrive together per 'Combined Reserve Units' it's mpossible for Coteaz to draw line of sight before they've disembarked, which necessarily occurs after they've arrived, thus too late.