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I've been playing Gk's/radical inquisition for about nine years now but my reluctance for SC's has meant that since the new Gk codex has come out I'm losing more than usual, would a couple of psyfle dreads be able to make a list better by themselves or do you have to throw in 4-6 dreads before you get resukts from them?

Posting your current list would be the only way we can answer this.

Your current question amounts to the following equation:
"X-2= ,Solve for X".

A libbie, a malleus inquisitor with two daemonblades. 10 man strike squad which I combat squad and out one on an objective with an eversor assassin and the other go in the razorback with the Inquisitor, the libbie goes with an arco deathstar of six flagellants and 4 crusaders in a stormraven and the rest of the points are on a termie squad and a LRR (purely because I have the FW model) I can get in 2 psyfle dreads for 1850


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I could throw out the inquisitor for a brotherhood champion if that's better I just want to use one of those HQ's

I'm not sure you can have 2 Demonblades on 1 Inquisitor...

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:A libbie, a malleus inquisitor with two daemonblades. 10 man strike squad which I combat squad and out one on an objective with an eversor assassin and the other go in the razorback with the Inquisitor, the libbie goes with an arco deathstar of six flagellants and 4 crusaders in a stormraven and the rest of the points are on a termie squad and a LRR (purely because I have the FW model) I can get in 2 psyfle dreads for 1850


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I could throw out the inquisitor for a brotherhood champion if that's better I just want to use one of those HQ's

Adding a couple of dreads won't help your list.

Its a terrible list is why you are losing. 2 HQs when 1 would be fine. An expensive beatstick unit that rides in a flying bullseye. An eversor assassin... Teqs and meqs without real purpose or goals. A LRR that is being miss-used most likely (can't really see anything that should be riding in it, or how it synergizes).

Too much "cool" units, no real army. Get your core solid first. Then add in the fun units.

The librarian is fine as a HQ. Build a Teq or meq list around him. The maleus build is terrible. It is a beat stick that is a waste of a slot how you are running it. Inquistors are fine as HQs, but are best kept cheap and avoiding roles they aren't worth taking for. Beatstick characters aren't worth taking when you can take units for similar costs. Deathstar units of henchmen are fun (but not usually all that good), but that unit is far to easy to stop since its flying in a 200+ point Shoot Me first beacon. Its also not too hard to torrent that unit away since their saves aren't good enough to avoid torrent of fire attacks.

odorofdeath wrote:I'm not sure you can have 2 Demonblades on 1 Inquisitor...

Apparently... you can! Oh the possibilities!

It's a two handed weapon, but you can switch between them for what you need/roll for? Ballin. Two demon weapon greatswords...

"So yea, This here is my +9+9 greatsword vs humies, and this is my +7+7 greatsword vs not humies. Problem is, when I fight a half humie, then they only +1+1..."

Exactly. You can't have 2 two-handed weapons, correct?

As for Henchmen deathstars, wouldn't DCA+Crusaders work better? I remember someone posting about running a double rock style list of :

7 DCA
7 Crusaders
Inquisitor with stuff
In a Crusader

Would that work?

notabot187 wrote:
Adding a couple of dreads won't help your list.
Its a terrible list is why you are losing.

Wow, with words of "wisdom" like that, you probably never should volunteer information. OBVIOUSLY adding good units to a crap list will improve the list. You claiming it won't help is either an outright lie or a gianormous mistatement - a colossal flub.

What you were trying, but epically failed to say, is that while the list would improve some with additional dreads, it is so inherently flawed that the person would be much better served by scrapping the whole list and creating a new one. Right?

Pretend you are actually trying to communicate in a clear manner and don't make such silly remarks in the future.

odorofdeath wrote:Exactly. You can't have 2 two-handed weapons, correct?

Yes, you can. There's nothing prohibiting you from taking 2 daemonblades - you are just restricted to one when in CC.

rigeld2 wrote:

odorofdeath wrote:Exactly. You can't have 2 two-handed weapons, correct?

Yes, you can. There's nothing prohibiting you from taking 2 daemonblades - you are just restricted to one when in CC.

In 3rd edition, and possible 4th edition, there was a rule in the BRB saying you could only take one two handed weapon. I think you could have one two handed and one one handed or two one handed. It was a silly rule to be honest.

Joe Mama wrote:

Wow, with words of "wisdom" like that, you probably never should volunteer information. OBVIOUSLY adding good units to a crap list will improve the list. You claiming it won't help is either an outright lie or a gianormous mistatement - a colossal flub.

What you were trying, but epically failed to say, is that while the list would improve some with additional dreads, it is so inherently flawed that the person would be much better served by scrapping the whole list and creating a new one. Right?

Pretend you are actually trying to communicate in a clear manner and don't make such silly remarks in the future.

notabot187 was quite correct I'm sure you'll find; adding staple units into a sub-par list will not make it great, it may make it less sub-par but ultimately, 2 units do not a list make.

No, I'm pretty sure he said that. Or at least, that's how I read it.

Dismissing someone's informed opinion as a "silly remark" really does not aid the question at hand in any way, especially when you have failed to add any additional advice of your own. If you disagree with someone fine but instead of coming across as arrogant you should try to - politely - explain why you feel this way but also add your own points in direct response to the question asked as to avoid arguments and general thread derailment.

Moving on,

Tiarna, by "Tournament Standards" your list has quite a few holes. As notabot said, there's no real synergy. When you make a list always be thinking: "what is this unit adding to my force?". For example, your Stormraven is an excellent delivery system. However, you have only 3 vehicles at 1850pts and 2 of which can only move a maximum of 12" per turn.

A smart opponent will target this Stormraven, as it is the most immediate threat in your list and destroying it will hamper a great deal of your mobility.

On the other hand, were you to include more vehicles, it becomes harder for your opponent to isolate the most important targets, perhaps forcing him to make concessions which you can take advantage of in your game play.

Redundancy, unfortunately, is probably the most effective theme that runs through any "Amazing" army list. Meaning, the less dice you have to roll, the better you will do as you will have to rely on less luck to do damage. Using Eldar as an example, you will do better with 3 Fire Dragon squads than just 1. Much like Grey Knight troops, you want to limit yourself to only 1 troop type. ie, all Purifiers, all Terminators, All Paladins or all Strikes, since, if one unit is taken out, there's another there that can do the same as it.

Iranna.

cowmonaut wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

odorofdeath wrote:Exactly. You can't have 2 two-handed weapons, correct?

Yes, you can. There's nothing prohibiting you from taking 2 daemonblades - you are just restricted to one when in CC.

In 3rd edition, and possible 4th edition, there was a rule in the BRB saying you could only take one two handed weapon. I think you could have one two handed and one one handed or two one handed. It was a silly rule to be honest.

Back then you weren't really restricted in the equipment you could take though either, or at least less-so than now.

Wow, that's awesome.Double Demonblade Inquisitors, here I come!

So I should make say 3 10 man strike squads my troops choices and combat squad them if its applicable, so after those three strike squads all with rhinos would work out at around 900 points so what for the next 950, can I still use the libbie or cheap radical inquisitor or should I go with someone else?

Not to get off topic or anything BUT to answer the OP's original question: I've tried running six psyrifle dreads. Kind of a waste of points I think. If the battlefield is completely open then yes they can work magic. Put up some LOS blockers and all of a sudden 1/2 your dreads have nothing too shoot at or they're in each others way. That's being my experience with them. I whittled myself down to three psyrifle dreads and one maybe two regular dreads to give some CC support in the backfield. I have found they are helpful since most of GK standard weapons are 24" so having a few 48" guns lying around can be helpful.

I also like the stormraven but only as a gun platform - not for transport - and I always take two with extra armor, twin linked melta and the plasma cannons. Always fly flat-out for the 4+ cover save. Extra armor allows you to completely shrug off 1 & 2 damages. I know you can use fortitude but let me tell ya - nothing sucks like rolling 6's or 1's. Extra armor knock's the 2 to a 1 and thanks to POTMS you can still fire a weapon. And 8 mindstrike missiles will take care of those pesky librarians and mephiston. Just my two cents on the SRs.

Iranna wrote:notabot187 was quite correct I'm sure you'll find; adding staple units into a sub-par list will not make it great,

And he didn't say it would make it great. He said it wouldn't help. Which is incorrect.

Or at least, that's how I read it.

You, like me, could read through the haze, the clunky, poor and misleading statement, and divine what the guy was trying to, but failed to say. That we could dicipher poorly constructed sentences does not excuse the poor construction.

but instead of coming across as arrogant

I am arrogant, when the person I replied to essentially called the OP's list garbage, and did it in a rude way? I'm the arrogant one in this example? Wow.



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Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:I've been playing Gk's/radical inquisition for about nine years now but my reluctance for SC's has meant that since the new Gk codex has come out I'm losing more than usual, would a couple of psyfle dreads be able to make a list better by themselves or do you have to throw in 4-6 dreads before you get resukts from them?

Tiarna, dreads are so good that a couple would make the list better by themselves. You don't need 4-6, that's usually overkill. 2-3 dreads and maybe an assassin would be all you need for a solid, AT base for your GK force. Obviously, what else you bring in the army is also very important.

Joe Mama wrote:

Iranna wrote:notabot187 was quite correct I'm sure you'll find; adding staple units into a sub-par list will not make it great,

And he didn't say it would make it great. He said it wouldn't help. Which is incorrect.

Or at least, that's how I read it.

You, like me, could read through the haze, the clunky, poor and misleading statement, and divine what the guy was trying to, but failed to say. That we could dicipher poorly constructed sentences does not excuse the poor construction.

but instead of coming across as arrogant

I am arrogant, when the person I replied to essentially called the OP's list garbage, and did it in a rude way? I'm the arrogant one in this example? Wow.

Cheers for it bro but from my experience it has been pretty garbage, by the way since it was said that I couldn't use the LRR well would a properly kitted out squad of pallies with a libbie be a good unit to put in it? knowing that every gun on the table will be pointed towards it? leaving the rest of my army free to do what they will?

I think you need to start fromn scratch, figuring out what kind of army you want to run.

Terminators are not very good, so stick with power armored guys or Paladins, or a mix. Paladins can footslog, but you'll want Draigo and/or a Librarian there to help them out. I have heard of decently performing lists that have them in a LR, search the tactics forum for Paladins and you will probably find quite a few discussions on how to run them.

Don't ever use a brotherhood champion, there are better options.

Thanks guys I've posted a new list in the list section which will hopefully get more positive opinions

Joe Mama wrote:

Iranna wrote:notabot187 was quite correct I'm sure you'll find; adding staple units into a sub-par list will not make it great,

And he didn't say it would make it great. He said it wouldn't help. Which is incorrect.

Or at least, that's how I read it.

You, like me, could read through the haze, the clunky, poor and misleading statement, and divine what the guy was trying to, but failed to say. That we could dicipher poorly constructed sentences does not excuse the poor construction.

but instead of coming across as arrogant

I am arrogant, when the person I replied to essentially called the OP's list garbage, and did it in a rude way? I'm the arrogant one in this example? Wow.

In the grand scheme of things, 2 Psyflemen dreadnoughts will not carry a list. With his build he can now potentially destroy 2 vehicles a turn as opposed to maybe 1. When your average 1850 list is packing 8+ vehicles, it's really just clasping at threads trying to say that it's going to help.

Perhaps, but it does not justify your blatant disregard for his opinion.

Yes, you came across as arrogant in that comment.

As I have told you in the reply to your PM you sent me claiming that I look foolish defending Nota's opinion, English is incredibly ambiguous; I see his post as blunt. you see it as hostile. Both a perfectly valid opinions.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:In the grand scheme of things, 2 Psyflemen dreadnoughts will not carry a list.

Yes. And? What does that have to do with my post? They are so good that adding them will help his list. It won't make the list great, but it will help. If it didn't help, then swapping out poor units with good ones would never help, which as we all know is a false statement.

I already told the person to start from scratch (as did others), they created a new thread in the list section, so why the hell are you even replying in here? Let's move on.

Joe Mama wrote:

Yes. And? What does that have to do with my post? They are so good that adding them will help his list. It won't make the list great, but it will help. If it didn't help, then swapping out poor units with good ones would never help, which as we all know is a false statement.

I already told the person to start from scratch (as did others), they created a new thread in the list section, so why the hell are you even replying in here? Let's move on.

Erm, nothing? I was pointing that out that 2 Dreadnoughts will not help this list to a noticeable degree? Of course it will help, but not enough to drag it from the lower echelons of listbuilding.

I am replying to clear up any confusion that seams to be in the air from both Nota's, your's and my posts.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:

Yes. And? What does that have to do with my post?

Erm, nothing?

Indeed. Good thing you responded to my post with your nothing. Please stop now, I am sure everyone knows what is going on and they aren't confused by anything. Except your need to keep posting. Bye bye thread!

If you wish to continue this PM me, we are currently derailing this thread.

Iranna.

I apologize for my unclear statement. I did intend to be blunt, because so often on this forum I've seen too much sugar coating and such. My ambiguity and such was a result of me posting quickly in between classes. Probably should have given it a more thorough edit before posting. What done is done and I apologize for starting an argument.

I suppose I should have phrased it "adding a couple of dreads won't help your list enough to make up for its deficiencies"

Anyways in reply to the OP, no, Paladins are better, but doesn't get away from the gimmick deathstar problem. In this case a single raider deathstar isn't an unusual problem, and won't challenge season players enough to justify it on its own. I would recommend MSUs of strike squads. 5 men squads with razorbacks (passbacks or PHbolter backs) Give the guys a cannon and maybe a hammer (its cheapish). Do this 4-6 times. Then with the remaining points add 2-3 Priffleman dreads and whatever fun beater unit that you want (and there probably isn't a huge amount to play with tbh) Inq with a small henchie assault group (DCA + crusaders, or arcos) Don't go overboard, DCAs and crusaders go a long way. Put them in LRC (LRR might be ok if the come with assault launcher, can't remember).

As for the storm raven... I honestly have a hard time making the GK one work. It doesn't really have the turn 1 power that the BA one has, due to the missiles not being anti tank ones. I suppose it could be a melta hench unit delivery system, or a reserve unit surprise for mid/late game (for objective grabbing, and for post demeching action)

TBH what I describe isn't amazing by any stretch, but it plays better than what you have, and doesn't require much investment compared to full spam tourney lists.

2-3 is enough imo， you do need pts for other units.