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Quick question for you all. I am currently playing a mainly shootie army. Can someone outline for me what armies you would consider to be CC armies. I know the obvious ones like Tyranids and Blood Angels. I am looking for ideas for a second army that would be very different then what I am currently playing, Necrons, for once I have my Necrons done.

Blood Angels, Orks, Tyranids, Grey Knights. Probably Daemons. Maybe Space Wolves. Although not too sure on MEQs

Anything involving the word KHORNE!!!, MAIM!!! or BLOOD!!! would be an indication.

Durza wrote:Anything involving the word KHORNE!!!, MAIM!!! or BLOOD!!! would be an indication.

Ah! Well done, I forgot about CSM. An all Khorne CSM army could be really cool.

Orks, Blood angels, Space wolves, CSM, Demons, Grey knights, Tyranids, DE and Eldar are effective in melee as well,

I wouldn't personally add Blood Angels as an essentially CC army. They have good CC units but their strength is more within their speed and fire power.

Tyranids and demons are essentially melee armies.

ORKS!!!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAGHH

grey knights are not a close combat army. just because they all have power weapons doesn't make them close combat material. they are much better on operating short to mid-range shooting.

Pretty much anyone other than guard and tau have close-combat potential. Vanilla SM, Sisters, non-deathwing dark angels and Necrons will probably be light on the assault.

pizzaguardian wrote:grey knights are not a close combat army. just because they all have power weapons doesn't make them close combat material. they are much better on operating short to mid-range shooting.

True, but they do have a lot of CC potential as well. Just look at purifier spam, henchmen and Draigowing, I know that they use the range of twin-linked autocannon dreads but they revolve around what are essentially CC units. Purifier spam revolves around the unit that it is named after and Draigowing revolves around Paladins which again are excellent in CC. I suppose that you could say that the henchmen build is MSU but I rarely see a henchmen build without a decent sized squad of DCA or 2.

Rampage wrote:

pizzaguardian wrote:grey knights are not a close combat army. just because they all have power weapons doesn't make them close combat material. they are much better on operating short to mid-range shooting.

True, but they do have a lot of CC potential as well. Just look at purifier spam, henchmen and Draigowing, I know that they use the range of twin-linked autocannon dreads but they revolve around what are essentially CC units. Purifier spam revolves around the unit that it is named after and Draigowing revolves around Paladins which again are excellent in CC. I suppose that you could say that the henchmen build is MSU but I rarely see a henchmen build without a decent sized squad of DCA or 2.

In vaccum theyre great at cc yes but when thats all you have you have to be careful where you get into cc so you dont bog yourself down. Below 2k a draigowing is very easily denied movement because the opponent hase more disposable bodies. Any turn with gk you are denied movement espeacially walking lists you are losing.

Rampage wrote:they revolve around what are essentially CC units.

Purifiers are above all prized for the number of psycannons they can take, i.e. twice as much as any other unit bar Purgation squads. Since the psycannons replace the NFW, they end up decent in hand-to-hand and still have Cleansing Flame, but they prefer to shoot.

Draigo wrote:

Rampage wrote:

pizzaguardian wrote:grey knights are not a close combat army. just because they all have power weapons doesn't make them close combat material. they are much better on operating short to mid-range shooting.

True, but they do have a lot of CC potential as well. Just look at purifier spam, henchmen and Draigowing, I know that they use the range of twin-linked autocannon dreads but they revolve around what are essentially CC units. Purifier spam revolves around the unit that it is named after and Draigowing revolves around Paladins which again are excellent in CC. I suppose that you could say that the henchmen build is MSU but I rarely see a henchmen build without a decent sized squad of DCA or 2.

In vaccum theyre great at cc yes but when thats all you have you have to be careful where you get into cc so you dont bog yourself down. Below 2k a draigowing is very easily denied movement because the opponent hase more disposable bodies. Any turn with gk you are denied movement espeacially walking lists you are losing.

Good point, I'm not a GK player and rarely play against them but I'm assuming that this means that Draigowing struggles against horde army in objectives? As the hordes can just tarpit and then go and capture the objectives, and as you say, especially at under 2k because paladins are so expensive.

Black Templars are pretty CQC. Running forward when they get shot, army wide preferred enemy and furious charge assault termies are just a few reasons why (although admittedly they can't keep up to pace as easily with newer CQC armies, such as Grey Knights).

Rampage wrote:

Draigo wrote:

Rampage wrote:

pizzaguardian wrote:grey knights are not a close combat army. just because they all have power weapons doesn't make them close combat material. they are much better on operating short to mid-range shooting.

True, but they do have a lot of CC potential as well. Just look at purifier spam, henchmen and Draigowing, I know that they use the range of twin-linked autocannon dreads but they revolve around what are essentially CC units. Purifier spam revolves around the unit that it is named after and Draigowing revolves around Paladins which again are excellent in CC. I suppose that you could say that the henchmen build is MSU but I rarely see a henchmen build without a decent sized squad of DCA or 2.

In vaccum theyre great at cc yes but when thats all you have you have to be careful where you get into cc so you dont bog yourself down. Below 2k a draigowing is very easily denied movement because the opponent hase more disposable bodies. Any turn with gk you are denied movement espeacially walking lists you are losing.

Good point, I'm not a GK player and rarely play against them but I'm assuming that this means that Draigowing struggles against horde army in objectives? As the hordes can just tarpit and then go and capture the objectives, and as you say, especially at under 2k because paladins are so expensive.

For example at 1850 if a draigowing had 10 pallys, draigo, libby and wound allocation setup theyre rocking in between 1100 to 1200 pts. Which leaves them with most likely 3 dreads and maybe 2 5 man squads of strikes with rhinos. So then it becomes a game of cover and positioning for the gk player since he probably does not want his dreads in cc since thats the main range hes got and with the psyfleman setup theyre str 6 with only 2 attacks. That's not hard to tie up. As far as the strikes yes they have sb and nfw but they have 1 base attack so in a squad of 5 at best they're killing 5 in cc. That's not that impressive. So then he needs the pally's to do most of the heavy lifting and while durable they have to stick to cover if their opponent has a lot of plasma, str 8, etc. One bad round of rolling and a battle canon could kill 3-4 pally's a turn by itself.

Draigo wrote:

Rampage wrote:

Draigo wrote:

Rampage wrote:

pizzaguardian wrote:grey knights are not a close combat army. just because they all have power weapons doesn't make them close combat material. they are much better on operating short to mid-range shooting.

True, but they do have a lot of CC potential as well. Just look at purifier spam, henchmen and Draigowing, I know that they use the range of twin-linked autocannon dreads but they revolve around what are essentially CC units. Purifier spam revolves around the unit that it is named after and Draigowing revolves around Paladins which again are excellent in CC. I suppose that you could say that the henchmen build is MSU but I rarely see a henchmen build without a decent sized squad of DCA or 2.

In vaccum theyre great at cc yes but when thats all you have you have to be careful where you get into cc so you dont bog yourself down. Below 2k a draigowing is very easily denied movement because the opponent hase more disposable bodies. Any turn with gk you are denied movement espeacially walking lists you are losing.

Good point, I'm not a GK player and rarely play against them but I'm assuming that this means that Draigowing struggles against horde army in objectives? As the hordes can just tarpit and then go and capture the objectives, and as you say, especially at under 2k because paladins are so expensive.

For example at 1850 if a draigowing had 10 pallys, draigo, libby and wound allocation setup theyre rocking in between 1100 to 1200 pts. Which leaves them with most likely 3 dreads and maybe 2 5 man squads of strikes with rhinos. So then it becomes a game of cover and positioning for the gk player since he probably does not want his dreads in cc since thats the main range hes got and with the psyfleman setup theyre str 6 with only 2 attacks. That's not hard to tie up. As far as the strikes yes they have sb and nfw but they have 1 base attack so in a squad of 5 at best they're killing 5 in cc. That's not that impressive. So then he needs the pally's to do most of the heavy lifting and while durable they have to stick to cover if their opponent has a lot of plasma, str 8, etc. One bad round of rolling and a battle canon could kill 3-4 pally's a turn by itself.

Ok, thanks for the explanation.

Guard can also be a plenty CC army if you make them. Power blobs actually beat most other stuff in close combat.

Really, it's just tau that can't do CC well. Everyone else at least has enough options to do a CC army well if they want.