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I've played 3 games as IG so far after just getting them on Saturday. I won both 1v1's I had against Chaos and Tau. I lost the 2v2 I played with an allied Nid vs Orks and Chaos. I didn't really have the time to sit down and formulate a good list during those games, and I have been able to sit down and make a few good lists. Now I need help knowing which one of them will perform the best. Can some more experienced IG players help me! Thanks

CCS - (Auto Cannon)
10 Vet - (Auto Cannon)
10 Vet - (Plasma Gun)
10 Vet - (Plasma Gun)
Leman Russ Executioner
Total: 500

CCS - (Auto Cannon/2 Snipers)
10 Vet - (2 Grenade Launcher or 2 Flamer)
10 Vet - (2 Plasma Gun)
10 Vet - (2 Plasma Gun)
Leman Russ Battle Tank or Exterminator
Total: 500

CCS - (Auto Cannon/2 Snipers)
PCS - (Auto Cannon/2 Snipers)
10 Vet - (2 Plasma Gun)
10 Infantry - (2 Melta Gun)
10 Infantry - (2 Grenade Launcher or 2 Flamer)
Leman Russ Battle Tank or Exterminator
Total: 500

I have been playing with 3 x 10 Vets on every game thus far, so the last list would be new territory for me utterly. Thanks for any input! I'm leaning towards the last list I put. This would allow me to combine the two groups of 10 I have, and make a rather effective squad. I don't know if the Melta are worth bringing though.

Edit: This could be a probable 4th I believe:


CCS - (AC/2 Snipers)
PCS - (AC/2 Snipers)
10 Vet - (2 PG)
10 Infantry - (3 GL or 2 GL/1FL)
10 Infantry - (3 GL or 2 GL/1FL)
Leman Russ Battle Tank or Exterminator
Total: 500

Cheaper tanks are better, stick with the regular Leman Russ.

Don't take snipers, they're a pretty ineffective upgrade.

Guard need to focus on out-ranging the enemy to get as many shots off as possible. Take a heavy weapon in every unit if you have the points, then start taking melta/plasma guns; alternately take a platoon with heavy weapons and bunker them up around the tank, then send a veteran squad with special weapons out hunting for enemies.

AnomanderRake wrote:Cheaper tanks are better, stick with the regular Leman Russ.

Don't take snipers, they're a pretty ineffective upgrade.

Guard need to focus on out-ranging the enemy to get as many shots off as possible. Take a heavy weapon in every unit if you have the points, then start taking melta/plasma guns; alternately take a platoon with heavy weapons and bunker them up around the tank, then send a veteran squad with special weapons out hunting for enemies.

So I should actually bring like AC's in every squad on the field? Interesting...that seems like I would punish myself by not moving a lot but I guess that is how IG works.

hmmmm at such a low point cost I am at a loss...

Are motars worth consideration?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So if I went with a list like this, what would be the best way to spend the last 10 points?

CCS - (AC)
10 Vet - (AC)
10 Vet - (2 PG)
10 Vet - (2 PG)
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Total: 490

At this point level it might be wise going all autocannon and lascannon, since at 500pts you probably wont be encountering many AV14 tanks.
I wouldn't take a leman russ in a 500pt list. It's a lot of points to be spending.

FifteenHours wrote:At this point level it might be wise going all autocannon and lascannon, since at 500pts you probably wont be encountering many AV14 tanks.
I wouldn't take a leman russ in a 500pt list. It's a lot of points to be spending.

Most people in our group that plays has some form of tank on the field. We've actually had less of them more recently than normal (says the Eldar mech player). Ragardless I have the LR now so I have to use it as I have no more money to go out and buy another platoon of IG!

I have noticed that at low level games power blobs perform fairly well. If you're new to the game, a power blob is simply:

20-30 Infantry guys
-Sgts all have power weapons (maybe a melta bomb)
-MUST take ONE commisar with a power weapon
-Combine all the Infantry Squads together

So, you have 21-31 guys that aren't likely to run away and can grind almost anything down at that low a point value.
If you can squeeze in an AC to take care of transports early on, you will still be good. AND at 500 points, Primaris-Psyker shines as a good cheap HQ


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@495 pts

Primaris Psyker
Platoon Command squad (naked)
31 man blob (Sgts/Commie has power weapon, AC/PG in every squad)
Penal Legion(Because you have to have a 2nd choice and they are OK at low points if you use them as a speed bump)

A Musketeer wrote:I have noticed that at low level games power blobs perform fairly well. If you're new to the game, a power blob is simply:

20-30 Infantry guys
-Sgts all have power weapons (maybe a melta bomb)
-MUST take ONE commisar with a power weapon
-Combine all the Infantry Squads together

So, you have 21-31 guys that aren't likely to run away and can grind almost anything down at that low a point value.
If you can squeeze in an AC to take care of transports early on, you will still be good. AND at 500 points, Primaris-Psyker shines as a good cheap HQ


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@495 pts

Primaris Psyker
Platoon Command squad (naked)
31 man blob (Sgts/Commie has power weapon, AC/PG in every squad)
Penal Legion(Because you have to have a 2nd choice and they are OK at low points if you use them as a speed bump)

Very interesting, I will see what I can build around that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can't see how the Primaris Psyker would be worth giving up the command orders coming from the CCS? Also why not choose a squad of Vets at 70 points instead of the Penal Legion at 80?

This is just an idea but at higher points people love Meltas Vets Sooo


Engineer

x3 Melta veterans in a chimera
x3 GrenadeL in a vet + Autocannon in a chimera

Leman Russ Battle tank


No Hull Heavy Flamers so you can sitback and pound 6 shots from the tank and the move an shoot with he troops when needed. Enginseer is the cheapest HQ choice but can help heal up a damaged tank. Obviously if they have a heavy tank move forwards. I know you didn't want to buy anything new but it's an idea if you change your mind/ get some cash

dabupp wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:At this point level it might be wise going all autocannon and lascannon, since at 500pts you probably wont be encountering many AV14 tanks.
I wouldn't take a leman russ in a 500pt list. It's a lot of points to be spending.

Most people in our group that plays has some form of tank on the field. We've actually had less of them more recently than normal (says the Eldar mech player). Ragardless I have the LR now so I have to use it as I have no more money to go out and buy another platoon of IG!

Interesting that people use AV14 in 500pts games.

Similarly to Felix i'd probably run a list like this if I was expecting AV14 and absolutely had to include a Russ:
x2 melta Vets Squads in Chimeras
LRBT
Techpreist.

LRBT covers long range firepower, meltavets can go tank hunting, techpreist is just cheapest HQ choice and might be useful sitting back with the Russ.

FifteenHours wrote:

dabupp wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:At this point level it might be wise going all autocannon and lascannon, since at 500pts you probably wont be encountering many AV14 tanks.
I wouldn't take a leman russ in a 500pt list. It's a lot of points to be spending.

Most people in our group that plays has some form of tank on the field. We've actually had less of them more recently than normal (says the Eldar mech player). Ragardless I have the LR now so I have to use it as I have no more money to go out and buy another platoon of IG!

Interesting that people use AV14 in 500pts games.

Similarly to Felix i'd probably run a list like this if I was expecting AV14 and absolutely had to include a Russ:
x2 melta Vets Squads in Chimeras
LRBT
Techpreist.

LRBT covers long range firepower, meltavets can go tank hunting, techpreist is just cheapest HQ choice and might be useful sitting back with the Russ.

I'm probably the only one running a true AV14 vehicle. We've had AV13 show up on a Hammerhead and Dread. We've had AV12 show up with Fire Prisms, Wave Serpent/Falcon, and a bunch of Space Marine stuff. The thing is that most armies are melee in our group, and that means they are all resolving off back armor. Thus AV14 is cake for them, just with Power Klaws/Fists. My Eldar army uses a Warlock blob so I get the same thing most of the time. Tau is really the only person screwed over by the LR tank I suppose...than again he CAN/HAS brought a Railhead before.

Problem is that is 505 points. I choose the GL/AC so that you could have one squad with better range and stay at points cost.

I played a game vs some Orkies, and won! Woot. After that battle though I have come to figure that more guardsmen is my friend. I had:

CCS 1 AC 1 SR
10 Vet 2 PG
10 Vet 2 PG
10 Vet 1 AC 1 SR
Leman Russ Battle Tank

He had:

1 Warboss 1 PK 1 'rmor 1 Attack Squig 1 Combi Flamer
5 Nobs 1 Painboy 1 Combi Flamer
20 Shootas 1 Nob 1 PK 2 Big Shootas
1 Wartrukk 1 Wrecking Ball 1 Big Shoota

It was a damn close battle. I tabled him turn 5 with a single Russ blast that hit, after he shot down the last 5 guardsmen I had with the 1/2 squad of shootas he had remaining. Those 5 guardsman managed to take out his Boss after his Boss wrecked my CCS. Twas a good game, but I think anything less than 30 guardsmen and I would have hands down lost.

I will point out, that of your first 4 lists, 2 of them were illegal. You can not have a PCS without at least 2 PIS to go with it, and PIS can only have one special weapon. They are not vets.
Kinda sad that no one noticed this, IMO, to bother to correct you.

To be frank, if your going to give a BS 4 unit a heavy weapon, give them a LC. ACs, due to the extra shot, are fine on BS 3 troops...effectively giving you a 75% chance to hit with one shot. ACs and LCs are the only real heavy weapons of choice for IG, anything else is a fluff pick.

For Vets, they have 3x special weapons slots, so use them. The big advantage Guard has over other armies is special weapon slots... every time you field less than maximum, your giving away an advantage.
Another thing with Vets, is their Doctrine. If your camping, give them Forward Sentries. If your attacking, Demolitions.

When you have BS 3 troops, I suggest Flamers and Melta guns for special weapons, for BS 4, plasma or melta guns. Another general rule of IG is to not mix special weapons... so far you seem to understand this.

I personally like Sniper Rifles, but you have to remember that they have specialized roles. They are heavy, so if you take one, you might as well take more and maybe a heavy weapon team (I feel a AC fits in well). Just remember your target priority would be MCs, Light transports (AV 12 or less, and if you have a AC included), and then infantry.

Since your a foot list, do not forget that you can have your CCS issue Orders to your CCS and Vets. 'Fire on my Target!', 'Bring it Down!', and 'First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire!' are pretty solid orders. Read the Order rules carefully.

BlkTom wrote:I will point out, that of your first 4 lists, 2 of them were illegal. You can not have a PCS without at least 2 PIS to go with it, and PIS can only have one special weapon. They are not vets.
Kinda sad that no one noticed this, IMO, to bother to correct you.

To be frank, if your going to give a BS 4 unit a heavy weapon, give them a LC. ACs, due to the extra shot, are fine on BS 3 troops...effectively giving you a 75% chance to hit with one shot. ACs and LCs are the only real heavy weapons of choice for IG, anything else is a fluff pick.

For Vets, they have 3x special weapons slots, so use them. The big advantage Guard has over other armies is special weapon slots... every time you field less than maximum, your giving away an advantage.
Another thing with Vets, is their Doctrine. If your camping, give them Forward Sentries. If your attacking, Demolitions.

When you have BS 3 troops, I suggest Flamers and Melta guns for special weapons, for BS 4, plasma or melta guns. Another general rule of IG is to not mix special weapons... so far you seem to understand this.

I personally like Sniper Rifles, but you have to remember that they have specialized roles. They are heavy, so if you take one, you might as well take more and maybe a heavy weapon team (I feel a AC fits in well). Just remember your target priority would be MCs, Light transports (AV 12 or less, and if you have a AC included), and then infantry.

Since your a foot list, do not forget that you can have your CCS issue Orders to your CCS and Vets. 'Fire on my Target!', 'Bring it Down!', and 'First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire!' are pretty solid orders. Read the Order rules carefully.

Thanks! I never miss out on orders because my main army is Eldar, and as such I'm use to using psychic powers and all the weird things that go along with them. So the orders fall right into place for me! I bring the Autocanons because I fight a lot of blob armies, however against SM or something I may step up to the lascannon. Thanks for pointing out the issues with the PCS and how many weapons I was bringing as well. Very useful information. I also know that you shouldn't be mixing special weapons that much, so I got that one down pat. Why should I focus MC with a sniper rifle? As well, I know nothing about the doctrines I can give my Vets, I didn't even know that existed. Where can I find this in the codex or could you explain it a bit better to me? Thank you for your help so far!


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I found the doctrines. They are EXPENSIVE at 500 points. X.X however they will be noted and used in my 1000 point list. Still explain the Sniper Rifle MC thing, maybe I'm missing a rule or way they work against them.

Standard rule of Sniper Rifles is explained in the base rule book (pg 31). It always wounds on a 4+, effectivily ignoring Toughness. So something like a Wraithlord at Toughness 8 are normally immune to anything less than Str 5.

Sniper Rifles also have the Rending rule. If you roll a 6 to wound, you ignore armor saves (thus against Marines you have a chance to ignore armor). If you fire on a vehicle, the Rifle is considered Str 3, but if you roll a 6 on the Armor Penitration roll, you get a exta d3 armor penitration added on via the Rend rule, thus having a chance to Glance AV 12. This is why I suggest the AC with the Sniper Rifles for a camping unit, because the Str 7 is normally used against AV 12 or less vehicles. Meaning your Rifles have a chance to also hurt it, thus it isn't a total waste to also fire them.

In my opinion, the chance to Rend makes the Sniper Rifle a better choice than the Grenaide Launcher, even though the GL is assault and is more consistant against light armor with a Str 6 Krak shot.

For your 500pt list, your probably better off with a CCS and 3 Vet squads, but I feel the LRBT is eh in a game that small, specially since LRBTs are primarily anti-infantry. The rules concerning a Ordnance weapon against armor, using the scatter dice to hit with means your BS 3 that is normally 50% chance to hit, now turns into a 33% chance to hit. The only thing that counts for a hit is the small center hole, otherwise your shot is half strength. You do get to roll two dice for amor penitration, but you use the higher of the two...

So a standard LRBT is Str 8 shot against vehicles only if the center hole is still over the vehicle, against the armor value (front, side, or rear) that is overlays. You roll 2d6 and take the higher of the two. This would be super impressive if you didn't have to use the scatter dice with a BS 3 gunner. If the center hole is not on the vehicle, but still within the blast maker, you follow the above, but at Str 4.

This is why all but the Vanquisher LRBT are considered anti-infantry vehicles. Hitting on a 33% is not considered reliable enough.

BlkTom wrote:Standard rule of Sniper Rifles is explained in the base rule book (pg 31). It always wounds on a 4+, effectivily ignoring Toughness. So something like a Wraithlord at Toughness 8 are normally immune to anything less than Str 5.

Sniper Rifles also have the Rending rule. If you roll a 6 to wound, you ignore armor saves (thus against Marines you have a chance to ignore armor). If you fire on a vehicle, the Rifle is considered Str 3, but if you roll a 6 on the Armor Penitration roll, you get a exta d3 armor penitration added on via the Rend rule, thus having a chance to Glance AV 12. This is why I suggest the AC with the Sniper Rifles for a camping unit, because the Str 7 is normally used against AV 12 or less vehicles. Meaning your Rifles have a chance to also hurt it, thus it isn't a total waste to also fire them.

In my opinion, the chance to Rend makes the Sniper Rifle a better choice than the Grenaide Launcher, even though the GL is assault and is more consistant against light armor with a Str 6 Krak shot.

For your 500pt list, your probably better off with a CCS and 3 Vet squads, but I feel the LRBT is eh in a game that small, specially since LRBTs are primarily anti-infantry. The rules concerning a Ordnance weapon against armor, using the scatter dice to hit with means your BS 3 that is normally 50% chance to hit, now turns into a 33% chance to hit. The only thing that counts for a hit is the small center hole, otherwise your shot is half strength. You do get to roll two dice for amor penitration, but you use the higher of the two...

So a standard LRBT is Str 8 shot against vehicles only if the center hole is still over the vehicle, against the armor value (front, side, or rear) that is overlays. You roll 2d6 and take the higher of the two. This would be super impressive if you didn't have to use the scatter dice with a BS 3 gunner. If the center hole is not on the vehicle, but still within the blast maker, you follow the above, but at Str 4.

This is why all but the Vanquisher LRBT are considered anti-infantry vehicles. Hitting on a 33% is not considered reliable enough.

Thank you for the great information! I am the most vechile heavy person in our group, and I play atleast 2 horde armies so the LRBT actually does a great job. It's hard to scatter too much with a tyranid/ork combo running at you

If you are worried about horde armies, and feel that your plasma vets are fine for handeling Marines and friends, you would be able to pay for 2 Griffons for the same points as a Leman Russ Battle Tank.

You lose the s8 and ap3, but you gain an extra blast and accuracy. Twin Linked makes you considerably more likely to hit, and the extra ap4 large blast really helps you ramp up your damage against hordes.

As was explained above you can't be relying on the LRBT to pop enemy tanks, So your vets will need to do that with AC, LC or PG.

Griffons are all round ace. You can just hide them behind cover the whole game and with the re-roll I find them brilliant against eldar or DE. They always make their points back and then some. Hydra's are equally as good for different reasons (anti-skimmer, so again good against eldar and DE)...

I brought a Griffon to my 1000 point game last night as IG and it completely ripped up the field. You weren't kidding about them being an all around ace! They will see much more time on the field from now on that is for sure.