Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

alright, we ran into a slight problem, which seems fairly rediculous, so I'll post the situation, and you eldar buffs can help me. Because me and my friends are having a hard time figuring out this problem.

 

He had sining spears that ended up in melee with a group of genestealers and a hive tyrant. His farseer had previously given his sining spear a power to re-roll a save. Now heres where the problem comes in. Under the armybuilder program, they have a 2+ save, which he used evade to make invunerable. This meant, that his 5 bikes were able to survive all the attacks my friend slung at him, because they ended up as 2+ invunerable, with a reroll. According to the eldar rulebooks this is actually a 3+. As I'm sure everyone would realize, a rerolled 2+ inv is quite rediculous. Where is the problem here? Is it only a 3+ reroll invunerable? anyhelp on this would be much appreciated, because I don't want to live with nearly indestructable jetbikes.

I'm no Eldar buff, but the codex says the shining spear exarch has a 3+ save.

What does Army Builder have to do with anything?

What does the eldar codex say?

Greetings. First of all, what army builder says is irrelevant. It isn't a GW product, so what is listed cannot be taken as official. Having said that, I do use the army builder program, since it is correct 99% of the time. However, I always have a copy of the codex/army book handy to double check.

Anyway, if I recall correctly, the "invulnerable save" exarch power only applies to the Exarch. Since he is only 1 model of the 5, he is not the majority, so he may not use that power until he is the last model in the squad. So the Hive Tyrant should have been tearing that squad to pieces without recourse of a saving throw, along with any Rending Genestealer attacks. Hope this clears things up! Good gaming.

Clarence

It was his farseer, who gave the bike squad the ability to reroll that invunerable if he cast it while the bikes were within 6". He then sped forward ahead of the farseer, slaughtered my stealthsuits, and ended his turn. On the tyranids turn they assaulted the bikes with genestealers and a tyrant. He then proceeded to use his 2+ inv reroll which, we did assume that the codex was more correct. We were just stunned when he tried to pull that off. I was just wondering if we missed anything else, like what you just said about it only being cast on the exarch himself. Issue is, it was the farseer off in the distance who gave the power.

I think I've got it..........

So the farseer cast fortune on a bunch of shining spears, they turbo-boosted their bikes thereby gaining an invulnerable save. So:

1) They would get to re-roll their now invulnerable saves (but only against shooting as per the rules)
2) I can't remember if the exarch has a 2+ save or not, but even if he does it is not the majority save and thus he should be taking 3+ invulnerable saves.

I think you got it. I thought the name of what was cast was "evade" not "fortune". I might have the names wrong though, it did give a reroll on their invunerable saves. I didn't know that it works only against shooting though, that couldve changed things.

People, read the majority armor save rules again.

YOU NEVER TAKE A MAJORITY SAVE (of any kind).

If I am wrong would you care to elaborate?

Just read it. Models take their own save. The majority just dictates who takes it first.

Further, invulnerables aren't relevant it this order.

If you shoot a units with 4 models, two with a 3+ save, 1 with a 3+/5+, and one with a 2+ and do 2 wounds, they must be saved by the 3+ save models because they are in the majority. However, one can be taken on the model with the 5+ invulnerable if you like, since his armor save is still in the majority.

If 4 wounds are done, everyone saves, and on their own save.

Ok cool, I see where I was wrong..............

while we're on the topic, during the same battle his sining spears had laser lances, which aided in the destruction of my stealthsuits. I just wanted to check that I had this right. This sequence below by the unit was correct?

1. Move forward underneath 12 inches.
2. Shoot laser lances.
3. Move into assault.
4. Before exchanging melee hits, they get ANOTHER round of firing that increases their strength to 5 for the rest of the turn.

I believe we figured out that this was true, but it totally obliterated my stealthsuits and that put me into denial that I lost an entire unit within one turn.

That was the correct sequence of events.


Remember that they are 50 point models (70 point base for the Exarch).

turbo-boosting only gives you an invulnerable save during your opponents *shooting* phase

Evade only gives the Exarch a inv save, not the squad members.

Shining Spears and Eldar Jetbikes only have a 3+ Save

He rorted the rules with the excuse 'Army Builder says I can' and used a rule incorrectly to give himself an unfair advantage.

So in short; you got screwed over

I think we all missed the real point of this post: the Eldar player took Shining Spears.

Lol.

"RAW states that a player taking Shining Spears isn't taking you
seriously anyway, so why bother playing them?"

I use army builder. They have a 3+ save in my version which is in synch with the codex, sounds like he's badly out of date on his updates or somehow got his stats crossed over badly reading them, or perhaps was just outright cheating.

As for the rules, everything else posted is pretty much correct.

I suppose I'd just like to point out that Fortune does not allow re-rolls of invulnerable saves, as per the FAQ.

The FAQ says the exact opposite I'm afraid.

BYE

Uh, the FAQ says that Fortune does allow you to re-roll Invulnerable Saves. It's a moot point in this thread anyway, since it was almost a month old and was on close to page 8 of the forum.