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Now, i haven't seem much talk about this here. While it might not be a more common site in a codex list, some of the IA lists, such as the DKoK that i run, have options on their heavy weapon teams of taking Heavy Stubbers instead of Heavy Bolters.. There they loose one point of strength, and two points of AP, for being twin linked. This leaves me wondering is it even worth it at that point? Yes, you have the chance to reroll your missed shots, But still your only getting three of them down range, where they wont do as much damage. I could possibly understand if had a higher rate of fire.. but as it is now? Why?

Because killing someone with a heavy stubber means you score an automatic moral victory

Against T3
Heavy bolter wounds on 2+
1/2 of shots hit, 5/6 of hits wound = 5/12 of shots result in wounds
Stubber wounds on 3+
3/4 of shots hit, 2/3 of hits wound = 1/2 of shots wound
T4
H Bolters wound on 3+
1/2 of shots hit, 2/3 of hits wound = 1/3 of shot wound (=8/24)
Stubbers woound on 4+
3/4 of shots hit, 1/2 of hits wound = 3/8 of shots wound (=9/24)

Stubbers do in fact turn out to score slightly more wounds against common infantry, though 4+ and 5+ armor saves in the absence of cover will more than negate the advantage and shooting vehicles with a heavy stubber is more futile than it is with a heavy bolter. I'm not a big fan of either one so my answer is whichever model looks cooler.

Right. The very slight increase doesn't cover for the fact that you never get a chance to use its Ap4. Not that you'll get to use it all that often, but still.

Also, heavy bolters can penetrate AV10, which stubbers can't, which means you have something to say to DE raiders, etc.

Why take either of them? IG (even the forgeworld lists) really have no use for heavy bolters or heavy stubbers. We're already good at killing infantry.

You're missing one crucial point- all heavy stubbers are twin-linked in DKOK. They're incredibly cheap and commonplace, probably one of the over-powered elements of the book.
AP is irrelevent in CoverHammer.

Id rather have an automatic grenade launcher then have 2 hmgs.

Joey wrote:You're missing one crucial point- all heavy stubbers are twin-linked in DKOK. They're incredibly cheap and commonplace, probably one of the over-powered elements of the book.
AP is irrelevent in CoverHammer.

And your point is? Why add more to an army if you're already good at it?

Nungunz wrote:

Joey wrote:You're missing one crucial point- all heavy stubbers are twin-linked in DKOK. They're incredibly cheap and commonplace, probably one of the over-powered elements of the book.
AP is irrelevent in CoverHammer.

And your point is? Why add more to an army if you're already good at it?

80 points for 9 twin-linked strength 6 shots? That's about 7 hits, 6 wounds, 2 failed armour saves.
I can't think of anything in the Guard list that competes with that in terms of bang for buck.

Uhhhh, heavy stubbers are S4.

Sooo 9 shots --> 6.75 hits --> 3.375 wounds --> 1.125 unsaved wounds (vs MEQ)


That's considered bang-for-your-buck in your book? Sure, whatever you say there.

I can do slightly worse than that with a naked 50-point guardsmen squad and is more survivable.

My bad I thought Heavy Stubbers were strength 6 for some reason...

Yeah, if they actually were twin-linked multilasers I would totally be all over them. Alas they are not.

Nungunz wrote:Yeah, if they actually were twin-linked multilasers I would totally be all over them. Alas they are not.

now that is the kind of inspired thinking that will get you promoted to general!!! Twin linked multilasers sound awesome, they would rule!

Hey, twin-linked assault cannons exist. Why not make a laser version!

Unless I'm mistaken you get 9 twin linked bolters with ap6, not bad i guess, but not phenomenal.

What's the range? 36"?

BronzeJon wrote:Unless I'm mistaken you get 9 twin linked bolters with ap6, not bad i guess, but not phenomenal.

What's the range? 36"?

Yes, with three shots.

So, aside from the demoralizing effect to the player.. Im not too surprized to see everyone here has the same thoughs on the Stubbers as i do, not as much use as heavy bolters, which have not much use either in most situations.

Raxmei wrote:Against T3
Heavy bolter wounds on 2+
1/2 of shots hit, 5/6 of hits wound = 5/12 of shots result in wounds
Stubber wounds on 3+
3/4 of shots hit, 2/3 of hits wound = 1/2 of shots wound
T4
H Bolters wound on 3+
1/2 of shots hit, 2/3 of hits wound = 1/3 of shot wound (=8/24)
Stubbers woound on 4+
3/4 of shots hit, 1/2 of hits wound = 3/8 of shots wound (=9/24)

Stubbers do in fact turn out to score slightly more wounds against common infantry, though 4+ and 5+ armor saves in the absence of cover will more than negate the advantage and shooting vehicles with a heavy stubber is more futile than it is with a heavy bolter. I'm not a big fan of either one so my answer is whichever model looks cooler.

? Am I missing something here?
Why are the stubbers hitting 3/4 and the HB are hitting 1/2?... no one else seems to have noticed/cares so I think I'm missing something here

DKoK stubbers are twin linked.

derrr 3/4 is 75%, also known as 50% added to 50%
That makes it crystal clear

It would be pretty silly to make you pay the same points for something with worse strength and ap and nothing to its advantage, yes. Like I said, they do have an advantage against some things and whether those circumstances predominate is a judgement call that you have to make for yourself.

A digression, the pdf update for Krieg siege regiments adds the combined squad special rule to Krieg heavy weapon squads and the Krieg FAQ clarifies that it does mean you can combine infantry and heavy weapon squads. This is potentially useful since it lets you mitigate the major weaknesses of heavy weapon squads.