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hi gang,

I live in an apartment building and I'm having a tough time finding a good place to prime my models. the underground garage for my building is fairly crowded and shared space for all tenants. I've done some priming down there before, but I'm always nervous that another tenant is going to walk in on me and freak out or that overspray may drift onto a parked car. I end up rushing, not leaving enough time between coats and doing an overall low-quality job of it :( ventilation's a bit lacking, as well. the sidewalk in front of my building is always lined with parked cars, so the overspray problem is an even bigger issue there, what with the breeze and all. sadly, I don't have access to the building roof. the building doesn't have any sort of yard or garden area.

short of packing everything up and driving somewhere, I'm a bit stumped. any suggestions from my fellow apartment dwellers?

Where do people usually go to smoke? That's a consideration.

Also, behind your FLGS is another option.

Absolutionis wrote:Where do people usually go to smoke? That's a consideration.

Also, behind your FLGS is another option.

Agreed, or you could put lots of newspaper down, put on a DIY mask and open all of the windows and then spray your models?

If you have a large cardboard box you can tape up the bottom so no paint gets through and then you can sit your models in the bottom of the box and spray without having to worry too much about overspray. I do that all the time in the breezeway outside my apartment. Or if its too cold out the bathroom works as long as you keep the fan on and be aware of how much time you spend in there.

Do you have access to your building's roof?

Read the first post azazel (no).

My suggestion, make a ghetto diy fume box type thing and do it indoors. What you need is a window, a largish cardboard box, a box window fan, and you're set to go. Ideally, you want the box to fit around the fan, and then you put the fan in the window (pushing the air OUTSIDE!!! cant stress this enough). You turn the fan on full blast, and then you put your models in the box and spray to your hearts content. Overspray may dirty you fan and the inside of the box, but it won't harm the apartment, and it should suck most of the fumes right out. If you're finding that you're still getting fumes in your apartment, purchase a second fan and place it inside several feet behind you blowing air towards the window/fan, this creates like a funnel/jetstream effect and keeps the fumes from spreading past the window area.

Honesly, I'd just suggest using a brush primer. If you're going to have to go somewhere special to prime or make a spray box in your appartment, you'll probably find it to be much less time consuming.

I have my own enclosed porch and backyard, and I still opt for brush priming (with gesso) many of my figures.

When I spray primer I use my DIY Paint box, I purchased for $15 a 20" box fan and a $2.50 20" x 20" x 1" air filter. put the filter on the back of the fan (where the air is sucked in) and then used an old box to make the other 4 sides. Turn the fan on high it sucks all the over-spray onto the filter. Just aim it at a window to get rid of all the fumes and your are golden. When not using the cardboard folds up and sits with the filter, almost no space under the bed and I use the fan to cool off in the summer unless spraying.

I would agree with going to your FLGS. However, I live in a apartment complex, and lucky enough each unit has its own balcony. I have a home made prime box that I use. It also folds down flat and fits under the couch when i am not using it. I usually try and prime when most people are our and about as well so that i do not bother them with fumes.

How about a spray box and your shower room. I would guess in an apartment it must have good ventilation? Just cover up with dust sheets to prevent overspray.

varl wrote:short of packing everything up and driving somewhere

Is driving somewhere really such a horrible option? Prime less often, and do more at once, nearby at a park somewhere, if the area right around your building doesn't work. Or like others have said, perhaps in the parking lot / out back behind the local gaming store....


I would never prime indoors. It smells enough just bringing the primed models back inside.

Take a battleforce box for instance, tip it up on it's thin edge, the spray into it and onto the models. The box catches any over shoot. Just make sure to have a window open nearby!

Pizza boxes are the best for this. You take one flap and set all your pieces on it, then set the top flap up against the wall so all of your directional spray goes against the backing instead of the wall. Best to do it outside, breezeway is a good spot. Though only do this if it's in an open breezeway. If it's one of those enclosed, long hallways, might not be a good idea. Primer smell can be pretty strong and nasty, if absolutely necessary, I'd just do it all outside somewhere safe. It can "sort" of depend also on what kind of primer you use. Army Painter, thick and concentrated, not too much in the way of vapors and spray hanging about. Tamiya, very fine and wide, I get a cloud forming around with it.

It does suck living in an apartment without much available spaces to spray. I strongly suggest not doing it anywhere inside the apartment, even the bathroom with the vents on. I attempted once, bathroom vents suck in a not so effective way.

I've been using a pretty unremarkable cardboard box (about 18'x12"x8")and just scoot out to the parking lot for a moment to spray and bring it back inside to dry in my bathroom. So far so good.

Out the window is also an option. bit awkward tho!

Or of course theres brush on primer like vallejos surface primer

When I was living in a large apartment building i just took a cardboard box out into the alley. Just make sure nobody has any open windows near where you are painting.

You might also check with your landlord. They might have an area where they'd prefer you to do it, that way even if somebody does complain you can tell them you already got permission from the landlord to do it.

I would strongly advise against doing it inside in case they end up smelling the fumes from the hallway and investigating further.

Dont have showered for a while, your a gamer so your probably good here...joke.

Crank the A/C to dehumidify the house, close door to bathroom with shower.

Wait until cool to reduce the chance of fuzz. Spray on a piece of cardboard in the shower/tube. Leave there to dry, turn on fan to remove paint smell/fumes. Spray tiles with cleaner as normal to clean any overspray or mist.

brush-on primer is something I'd never heard of until now. you still get a good, even base coat without brush strokes from it? that might be the ticket for me. I do like the idea of a spray box with fans and such, but I don't think my windows open wide enough for that.

thanks for all the great ideas!

The vallejo polyurethane primer actually shrinks as it dries so it becomes very smooth and doesnt hide detail. Its designed to either be airbrushed or brushed on and also happens to be extremely tough.

Might take a few goes to get the best technique down for applying it quickly, but ive found it quite forgiving.

Im sure theres other brands of brush on primer too, vallejo is just the only one ive used.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Priming_With_Acrylic_Gesso

Go check that out. I haven't had a chance to buy at test it yet, but since it's on Dakka, it's probably as good as advertised.

Im pretty sure vallejo surface primer is more durable than gesso. Hopefully someone who has experience with both could give their opinion.

varl wrote:brush-on primer is something I'd never heard of until now. you still get a good, even base coat without brush strokes from it? that might be the ticket for me.

It's the ticket for you if you like wasting a ton of time for no reason. We are talking about a primer here, you just need to get it on properly so you can do the real work which is painting. Why spend all that time putting primer on? Surely it is easier and faster to take your models outside, somewhere, where you can throw down a box and spray them? Even if you lived in the city from Bladerunner there'd be spots to spray prime, and I don't think you live there.

varl wrote:brush-on primer is something I'd never heard of until now. you still get a good, even base coat without brush strokes from it? that might be the ticket for me.

As for brush on primer, it doesn't matter if you get a few brush strokes, they won't show up post-painting. People think that primer needs to be a thick opaque layer,and that's just not true. Unless you're dealing with a primer/bascoat combo it just has to be thick enough to provide tooth for the paint.

Skippy wrote:Im pretty sure vallejo surface primer is more durable than gesso. Hopefully someone who has experience with both could give their opinion.

Vallejo may be slightly more durable than gesso, but that's kind of missing the point. Primer is not inteded to be the protective layer for paint. That's what varnish/clearcoat is for. Primer is intended to adhere to the model and provide good "tooth" for the paint to stick to.

Gesso does this very well as do other brush-on primers. Gesso also shrinks as it dries so you can apply it a bit messily and not worry about lost detail.

Joe Mama wrote: It's the ticket for you if you like wasting a ton of time for no reason. We are talking about a primer here, you just need to get it on properly so you can do the real work which is painting. Why spend all that time putting primer on? Surely it is easier and faster to take your models outside, somewhere, where you can throw down a box and spray them?.

Sorry, but you're wrong here. As someone who has sprayed and gessoed hundreds of models, I can assure you that brush on primer does not take much more time than spray on primer. Also, Brush on primer dries faster and can be painted quicker than spray on primer. Spray primer is only faster if you're doing larger lots of figures and if you have somewhere to easily spray. If spraying locatin is a hassle (or the temp or humidity arent' right) then you're much better off just priming with a brush.

Here's an excellent article on Gesso as primer. It's a reprint of the article that got me hooked on gesso a few years ago.
http://thescreamingalpha.com/?p=640
Did I mention that Gesso is dirt cheap and available at any artists supply or craft store?

Eilif wrote:Sorry, but you're wrong here. As someone who has sprayed and gessoed hundreds of models, I can assure you that brush on primer does not take much more time than spray on primer.

OH! COOL! You can assure me! WOW! How about you do something useful and break down the time each method takes. For let's say, 10 models? I'd like your somewhat useful estimates rather than your useless assurances and vague "not much more time" statements.

Also, Brush on primer dries faster and can be painted quicker than spray on primer.

Dries faster than what? How long does it take to dry? How long does your primer take to dry? Are you claiming spray primers all take the same amount of time to dry? Facts are our friends!

Joe Mama wrote:

varl wrote:brush-on primer is something I'd never heard of until now. you still get a good, even base coat without brush strokes from it? that might be the ticket for me.

It's the ticket for you if you like wasting a ton of time for no reason. We are talking about a primer here, you just need to get it on properly so you can do the real work which is painting. Why spend all that time putting primer on? Surely it is easier and faster to take your models outside, somewhere, where you can throw down a box and spray them? Even if you lived in the city from Bladerunner there'd be spots to spray prime, and I don't think you live there.

I don't live in a city and have a yard to spray prime.

My problem is finding the time to prime when the weather is friendly enough to allow it. Between a humidity that ranges from 50-90%, and temps that change from 70 to 50 to 90+ in a few days time, on top of a wife and kid, scheduling time to spray prime is pointless.

Joe Mama wrote:

Eilif wrote:Sorry, but you're wrong here. As someone who has sprayed and gessoed hundreds of models, I can assure you that brush on primer does not take much more time than spray on primer.

OH! COOL! You can assure me! WOW! How about you do something useful and break down the time each method takes. For let's say, 10 models? I'd like your somewhat useful estimates rather than your useless assurances and vague "not much more time" statements.

Also, Brush on primer dries faster and can be painted quicker than spray on primer.

Dries faster than what? How long does it take to dry? How long does your primer take to dry? Are you claiming spray primers all take the same amount of time to dry? Facts are our friends!

Gesso can be painted over nearly as soon as any other layer of miniature paint. Spray primer cant take anywhere form 20 minutes to 45 minutes to be handleable, depending on the brand, and even then it's often best to wait even longer especially when not using acrylic spray paints.

Eilif, are you too busy to properly reply, or are you intentionally witholding information from the community for some strange reason?

brush on primer does not take much more time than spray on primer

That was you. Expand on what you mean by "not much more time." Perhaps some numbers? Granted I have never painted on primer, but I have applied basecoat with a brush and it takes far far longer than spray priming, per model. Easily 10 times as long.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:My problem is finding the time to prime when the weather is friendly enough to allow it. Between a humidity that ranges from 50-90%, and temps that change from 70 to 50 to 90+ in a few days time, on top of a wife and kid, scheduling time to spray prime is pointless.

So your actual problem is that you are extremely busy, and your minor secondary problem is that the weather isn't always perfect in the rare moments you aren't busy. Er... ok. I suppose paint on primer is useful to you, although it will take you longer to prime your models, by that I mean you will spend more time on the activity than you would if you used spray primer. Unless my common sense notion that spray is faster than a brush is wrong.

Joe Mama wrote:It's the ticket for you if you like wasting a ton of time for no reason. We are talking about a primer here, you just need to get it on properly so you can do the real work which is painting. Why spend all that time putting primer on? Surely it is easier and faster to take your models outside, somewhere, where you can throw down a box and spray them? Even if you lived in the city from Bladerunner there'd be spots to spray prime, and I don't think you live there.

Joe Mama wrote:

Eilif wrote:Sorry, but you're wrong here. As someone who has sprayed and gessoed hundreds of models, I can assure you that brush on primer does not take much more time than spray on primer.

OH! COOL! You can assure me! WOW! How about you do something useful and break down the time each method takes. For let's say, 10 models? I'd like your somewhat useful estimates rather than your useless assurances and vague "not much more time" statements.

Also, Brush on primer dries faster and can be painted quicker than spray on primer.

Dries faster than what? How long does it take to dry? How long does your primer take to dry? Are you claiming spray primers all take the same amount of time to dry? Facts are our friends!

Joe Mama wrote:Eilif, are you too busy to properly reply, or are you intentionally witholding information from the community for some strange reason?

I understand that most communication has both a verbal and non-verbal part, and that on the internet we are bereft of the non-verbal part, often imparting our own personal views on the subject as the subtext which we are not receiving. User names which are themselves thinnly veiled insults often paint the poster in an unfairly negative light.

Dispite this your posts seem hostile and inflamatory, and seem to be pulling the thread off topic. Please try and keep your posts as nuetral in tone and as on topic as possible.

As for priming, I haven't used brush on primers yet, and while researching among local gamers I found about equal numbers of brush primers, spray primers, and don't-bother-to-prime'rs. I personally spray, as I have the room and tend to do at least a dozen models at a time. Brushing is a viable option, produces good results, and can be done in enclosed spaces.

Also, if we're going to be comparing times, we'll also need to factor in minumum travel time for the OP to get to an area where he can safely and legally use spray primer. I know that in most areas of California, use of spray paint on public property is a $6000 fine.

Joe Mama wrote:

OH! COOL! You can assure me! WOW! How about you do something useful and break down the time each method takes. For let's say, 10 models? I'd like your somewhat useful estimates rather than your useless assurances and vague "not much more time" statements.

Theres absolutely no need to take such a hostile tone with anyone.

It is never on topic to psychoanalyze a poster by quoting their posts and then making wild claims about their feelings, which even you admit we are bereft of, since the internet has no non-verbal component. So it is best to not derail the thread with such nonsense that you yourself even said you could not discern. Also, no sense coming dangerously close to making personal attacks during your off topic psychoanalysis.


Now onto your on topic remarks. If we are comparing times, which I would very much like to do, then yes, after we find out how long each method takes, then whoever needs to drive somewhere would need to take that time into account as well. I don't know the laws of my state let alone Californias, but you are right, he needs to be aware of those if he is going to spray on some random property somewhere.