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In the following scenarios, which one will make the troops having to take dangerous terrain test?
- Tactical squad jumping out of Drop Pod into difficult terrain
- Wych squad jumping out of open-topped transport into difficult terrain
- Tactical squad jumping out of Razorback into difficult terrain

#1. The Tac squad counts as deep striking, and DSing into difficult terrain means dangerous terrain tests.

Only the first one. Tactical squads jumping out of a Drop Pod must have just arrived with the drop pod, which means they must have been deep striking. And, models deep striking into difficult terrain means they take a dangerous terrain test.

For the others, unless the transport just deep struck, there's no need to take a terrain test when you disembark into difficult terrain.

- Not entirely sure. My gut is no, but I know some other rulings over time have said that 'units arriving via deepstrike, even embarked, still count as units arriving via deepstrike for most rules.
- Nope. Must make a difficult terrain test if moving.
- Nope. Must make a difficult terrain test if moving.

pretre wrote:- Not entirely sure. My gut is no, but I know some other rulings over time have said that 'units arriving via deepstrike, even embarked, still count as units arriving via deepstrike for most rules.

The main rulebook FAQ says:

Q: Does a unit being transported by a vehicle that has
arrived by Deep Stike that turn also count as having
arrived by Deep Strike? (p95)
A: Yes.

Grakmar wrote:

pretre wrote:- Not entirely sure. My gut is no, but I know some other rulings over time have said that 'units arriving via deepstrike, even embarked, still count as units arriving via deepstrike for most rules.

The main rulebook FAQ says:

Q: Does a unit being transported by a vehicle that has
arrived by Deep Stike that turn also count as having
arrived by Deep Strike? (p95)
A: Yes.

It's worth noting though that only models "arriving" by DS treat difficult as dangerous, which to me means the act of placing the model and rolling scatter. The vehicle's DS is completely resolved before the models inside have a chance to do anything. Subsequent actions (such as disembarking from a transport, running in the shooting phase, or assaulting for a few rare units) then occur after the unit has arrived, and thus wouldn't trigger dangerous terrain.

The FAQ answer above seems like more of a clarification that units arriving in a DSing transport cannot assault that turn.

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:It's worth noting though that only models "arriving" by DS treat difficult as dangerous, which to me means the act of placing the model and rolling scatter. Subsequent actions (such as disembarking from a transport, running in the shooting phase, or assaulting for a few rare units) occur after the unit has arrived, and thus wouldn't trigger dangerous terrain.

I would say that would only matter if you were able to not disembark on the turn the Drop Pod arrived. Since you are forced to disembark on the turn you arrive, it is still part of the Deep Strike.

Actually, based on that FAQ answer, I think it is clear that the transported unit arrived by DS and hence treats all difficult as dangerous.

1: Any models that deploy into terrain need a dangerous test.
2: They may disembark and then roll for their movement normally.
3: Same as 2.

juraigamer wrote:1: Any models that deploy into terrain need a dangerous test.
2: They may disembark and then roll for their movement normally. (If the transport did not move, because normal restrictions still apply.)
3: Same as 2.

Added the underlined for clarity.

Thanks god Drop Pod has a gun. Otherwise, it will blow up on a failed dangerous terrain test and kill a bunch of guys inside. They pop out and get killed some more. :(

pretre wrote:Actually, based on that FAQ answer, I think it is clear that the transported unit arrived by DS and hence treats all difficult as dangerous.

"Arrived", past tense. DSers only treat difficult as dangerous while "arriving", present tense. Once they have "arrived" terrain goes back to normal. Passengers disembark after the vehicle arrives (and them along with it). The vehicle is what is DSing (this should be obvious as many times the units being transported do not have the ability to DS), the passengers just "count as having arrived by deep strike" (past tense) meaning they are no longer "arriving" and no longer treat difficult as dangerous.

Models arriving from Deep Strike don't care about any terrain except impassable.
I don't see the distinction you're making BNO.

rigeld2 wrote:Models arriving from Deep Strike don't care about any terrain except impassable.
I don't see the distinction you're making BNO.

Had to wait till I got home from work to dig out the actual quote. From the DS rules on page 95:

Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain
as dangerous terrain.

So it's just while you are arriving that this triggers. Once you have arrived (past tense) you are no longer arriving (present tense) and so the rule above does not trigger. The passengers are not actually DSing (again this should be obvious from the fact that many of the units being transported do not have the ability to DS), they're just in a transport which is, and once the transport has arrived (past tense) they count as having arrived by DS (past tense), so there is never an opportunity for them to trigger the rule quoted above. Just like if a transport moves in the movement phase, the passengers themselves are not actually moving, they just count as moving.

"count as" must means the same as "are".
Therefore units in a moving vehicle have moved, just count as moving.
If the models disembarking are Deep Striking, they are also arriving by Deep Strike.

The tense game you're playing doesn't work.

rigeld2 wrote:"count as" must means the same as "are".
Therefore units in a moving vehicle have moved, just count as moving.
If the models disembarking are Deep Striking, they are also arriving by Deep Strike.

The tense game you're playing doesn't work.

So you're saying that models in a transport that moves are themselves also moving? If so, how far are they moving? If Orikan is in effect do they need to roll for difficult terrain (as he affects "all enemy units that move")? If the Orikan/Writhing Worldscape combo is in effect do they need to take Dangerous terrain tests? If they're moving then they should.

And you're saying that models that disembark from a DSing transport that has already arrived, are themselves still arriving via Deep Strike even if the unit does not have the ability to deep strike? If they disembark into Warp Quake range do they auto-mishap? If they're "still arriving via Deep Strike" as you contend then it should trigger. Does it make any sense at all that a BA Land Raider could safely DS just outside of the WQ zone, then the Death Company inside hop out and find themselves misplaced and deployed via deep strike (which they can't do on their own) across the table? I know it's a game and I know not everything makes perfect sense, but that makes absolutely no sense.

So to sum up my position:
Step 1)Transport (with unit inside) Deep Strikes.
Step 2)Unit disembarks. Since this must happen after the resolution of step 1 (otherwise you don't know where to disembark from) things that trigger off of arriving/deploying via Deep Strike do not go off.

So you're saying that models in a transport that moves are themselves also moving?

If a unit in a moving transport wishs to shoot, they count as moving dont they?

Models disembark from a drop pod. The faq is clear that these models count as arriving as deepstrike. Models entering, leaving, or moving through dangerous terrain make a dangerous terrain check. Since difficult terrain is dangerous for models that are arriving by deepstriking, and disembarking into dangerous terrain means the model has entered dangerous terrain, the drop podding unit must test for terrain.

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:And you're saying that models that disembark from a DSing transport that has already arrived, are themselves still arriving via Deep Strike even if the unit does not have the ability to deep strike?

That's what the Deep Strike rules say.

leohart wrote:In the following scenarios, which one will make the troops having to take dangerous terrain test?
- Tactical squad jumping out of Drop Pod into difficult terrain
- Wych squad jumping out of open-topped transport into difficult terrain
- Tactical squad jumping out of Razorback into difficult terrain

And just to clarify about points #2 & #3, disembarking is a form of non-normal movement so if the models were disembarking into actual dangerous terrain they would have to take a dangerous terrain test (as backed up by GW's rulebook FAQ), but they don't have to test if just disembarking into difficult terrain.

And yes, units that disembark from a transport that has arrived via deep strike that same turn also count as having arrived via deep strike and therefore must take dangerous terrain tests.

DevianID wrote:Models disembark from a drop pod. The faq is clear that these models count as arriving as deepstrike. Models entering, leaving, or moving through dangerous terrain make a dangerous terrain check. Since difficult terrain is dangerous for models that are arriving by deepstriking, and disembarking into dangerous terrain means the model has entered dangerous terrain, the drop podding unit must test for terrain.

I'll admit I'm not 100% sure on how drop pods work, but looking at the way the entry for them is worded in the SM book("a unit that Deep Strikes via Drop Pod") yeah I'd have to agree for drop pods.

insaniak wrote:

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:And you're saying that models that disembark from a DSing transport that has already arrived, are themselves still arriving via Deep Strike even if the unit does not have the ability to deep strike?

That's what the Deep Strike rules say.

yakface wrote:And yes, units that disembark from a transport that has arrived via deep strike that same turn also count as having arrived via deep strike and therefore must take dangerous terrain tests.

I seem outnumbered (which likely means I'm wrong) so I'll concede this round.

I'm curious how you'd play the Warp Quake scenario I proposed. Following your logic, if the transport lands safely and then the unit disembarks into the WQ danger-zone, it should trigger for the unit (since they're still in the process of arriving from reserve via DS). If they get delayed and don't have the ability to DS what happens as they were declared as DSing? If they have the ability to arrive via outflank but not DS can they choose to do that (like BA scouts disembarking from a LR)? I wouldn't think so as a unit that can DS and get delayed doesn't get to pick another arrival method (like if a land speeder storm got delayed). How is the driver of the vehicle ever going to explain that to his commanding officer? "Well, we landed safely and everything looked good, the guys opened the doors and jumped out, then all of the sudden they vanished and appeared back at camp..."

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:I'm curious how you'd play the Warp Quake scenario I proposed. Following your logic, if the transport lands safely and then the unit disembarks into the WQ danger-zone, it should trigger for the unit (since they're still in the process of arriving from reserve via DS). If they get delayed and don't have the ability to DS what happens as they were declared as DSing? If they have the ability to arrive via outflank but not DS can they choose to do that (like BA scouts disembarking from a LR)? I wouldn't think so as a unit that can DS and get delayed doesn't get to pick another arrival method (like if a land speeder storm got delayed). How is the driver of the vehicle ever going to explain that to his commanding officer? "Well, we landed safely and everything looked good, the guys opened the doors and jumped out, then all of the sudden they vanished and appeared back at camp..."

Yep. The situation you describe is definitely a big grey area in the rules, but the FAQ is pretty darn clear that models disembarking from a vehicle that arrived via deep strike count as having arrived via deep strike themselves.

We've patched that rules 'hole' in the INAT, but that is basically a 'house rule' to cover the grey area. We've said that if a unit ends up deploying into a Warp Quake zone then the entire package (Drop Pod and deployed unit) end up suffering the mishap.


The key here is not to think of the Drop Pod landing and the unit disembarking as some order of operations, but rather an overall action that the unit (drop pod included) is making. I mean, conceptually Warp Quake's explanation doesn't make a lot of sense in general of how it affects things like Drop Pods so I don't think you can get too caught up in how it all makes sense.

But the point is: If the unit ends up Deep Striking within range of Warp Quake, then it gets affected. Drop Pods essentially allow these units to Deep Strike, so its all part-and-parcel together.


This concept is also backed up by Coteaz's ruling in GW's FAQ which allows them to fire at both the Drop Pod AND the unit deploying from it (as both are arriving via Deep Strike).