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Pretty much after witnessing a ridiculous amount of 6s being rolled with a distinct lack of any other number on a single die I point out that the die is likely biased. Stonewall of objection later, I continue to keep tally of 6s and it comes out to right about half of it's rolls were 6s through out the game which he used in every roll he made. I was told to write it off as luck. The guy called it his lucky die and it is distinct from the others being used. At what point does a statistical anomaly (or luck) stop being such and start being "cheating." I am reluctant to say cheating because I doubt that was the intention, but he absolutely refused to not use the die and I can't find a word to fit.

Get a bucket of water, and gently drop the die into it, and record results over 100 drops. That should better indicate any bias.

Or just politely ask him to not use his 'lucky dice', or to share it.

If he refuses, chances are it's loaded.

Same as @Ascalam. If it is fair, he can share.

Most tournaments these days REQUIRE one single pool of dice be used for BOTH players.

In a friendly though I wouldnt be too bothered with it.... No one asks to borrow my dice anyways.... they are loaded to roll 1's =[

Does this same player use his "lucky die" when rolling for low numbers - such as moral checks? If the "lucky die" is always forgotten for moral checks, then you know there is a problem.

I've been had my dice questioned in the past. Most recently, I rolled 4+ hits on all 11 dice. My opponent then took the same dice and managed to only roll 3 4+ saves with the same 11 dice. Luck can be funny some times.

As above. If you're suspicious about a die, ask to use it.

It shouldn't matter what dice you use. As such, since he refused to change dice, something that shouldn't matter, I would consider him cheating at that point. It's no the rolls that make him a cheater, it's the refusal to switch dice.

Sometimes, people deliberately "tweak" their dice. it can done, im told.

Sometimes, dice are just funny. Cut a dice in half, and there can be air bubbles etc that can unintentionally make a dice roll above, or below average. in this case, the dice is entirely, and unintentionally "(un)lucky". Is it wrong to use it? I dunno - it wasnt deliberately modified - it just happens to roll well.

And then there are my dice. 4 dice, that i use for warmachine. they are the veteran survivors of my pack of dice that i got a few years back when i bought Mongoose' Starship Troopers game. Its a running gag that i give my dice the "for the motherland" speech each night, which is why they roll consistently well. its something i will not deny either And these dice are jammy. And no, i dont mean high-rolling jammy-good. but yes, they'll roll well, typically. Until i need them to roll low (eg fire or corrosion damage during the maintenance phase), in which case my low rolls are above average.

If they rolled high all the time - fair enough. but they dont. they'll roll low as well. Ironically, these "lucky" dice suck at playing 40k!

And oddly enough, i was a bit curious about this whole phenomenon, and if it was an unfair advantage. So i did a test. at a tournament, i recorded all my dice rolls based on the fact the avarage of 2d6 is a 7, and the average for 3d6 is 10-11. Despite all my high rolling, my average came out to be exactly 10.5. i think the "high rolling" is just a feature of warmachine, where typically the average dice rolls (ie a 7) tends to come up more often, and with the boosting mechanic, and maths, you can push luck in your favour to get the numbers you need. So no, im not concerned about my dice any more. but 40k. single dice rolls can be notoriously random. you cant predict them as easily, or as much.

if he's always rolling 6s, it could be his "jammy" dice. maybe. i dunno.

Milisim wrote:Most tournaments these days REQUIRE one single pool of dice be used for BOTH players.

Umm. Not around here. Where are you talking about?

If the tournament you are going to does not require this, time to bring it up to the TO.

Does anyone have an example of a US tournament that does this?

Never heard of a tourny with a shared dice pool. Shouds lame. I dont want some grubby neckbeards sweaty stinky dice. Plus I have an odd tick, i roll a certain colored dice depending on the action. Lasguns are always blue dice, orders/ leadership green, lascannons red, autocannons green, missile launchers white, damage results are red, (red makes it more likely to explode...) and no one accuses me of cheating.

Milisim wrote:Most tournaments these days REQUIRE one single pool of dice be used for BOTH players.[

I've been attending 40K tourneys for 15 years, and have never seen this requirement.

If you think your opponent is using loaded dice, bring it up with a judge. But really, 99% of the time it's about the player and not the dice. It's very rare that you play a perfect game and lose because your opponent, who's doing all the wrong things, gets lucky with his dice. Good players put themselves in position to have luck and put the odds in their favor.

Note that I once lost a tournament game as described above, hence me saying 99% and not 100%. But that was the only game in those 15 years that I'd put in that category.

Tournaments where i play have no such restriction, but they do fronw heavily on using dice that aren't standard markings.

For example the dice where the 6 and the one are both odd (and similar) symbols. Yes, they look awesome. Yes, they are really easy to cheat with if your opponent doesn't know which symbol is which at a glance

Ascalam wrote:Tournaments where i play have no such restriction, but they do fronw heavily on using dice that aren't standard markings.

For example the dice where the 6 and the one are both odd (and similar) symbols. Yes, they look awesome. Yes, they are really easy to cheat with if your opponent doesn't know which symbol is which at a glance

I can't quite understand those dice. They make be fronw a lot. They seem to be common with d20s.

"Roll your attack...You got a 1."
"No, a 20."

OP: Either his dice are crooked or they aren't. There is no point where he beats the odds so much that he begins to break the rules. Don't call someone's luck "cheating" unless you're dead serious. That's a pretty heavy accusation, especially if it came from someone I didn't know.

Deadnight wrote:Sometimes, dice are just funny. Cut a dice in half, and there can be air bubbles etc that can unintentionally make a dice roll above, or below average. in this case, the dice is entirely, and unintentionally "(un)lucky". Is it wrong to use it? I dunno - it wasnt deliberately modified - it just happens to roll well.

Even if it's a factory-defect that 'just happens to roll well', if the player is aware that this specific D6 is skewed and uses that to an advantage, then it is cheating.

If it is a marked die so that your opponent can easily identify his "lucky die", then I would consider that a red flag.
If your opponent doesn't use that "luck die" on every roll (including psychic and morale tests) that's another red flag.
And if your opponent doesn't allow you to use that "kucjy die" on every single roll that you ask to use it, then I would immediately pack up my army without saying another word.

People have all sorts of odd hang-ups about what constitutes "cheating" and "lucky dice." Whether or not they're losing the game seems to affect this to a great extent...

I think that asking to use the die yourself is certainly fair. I've got dice I consier "lucky," and I'd totally let my opponent use them. On the other hand, if someone politely asked me not to use my "lucky dice" I would also put them away. If it's a friendly game, don't play them any further. If it's competitive play, then call a TO into the equation if you really think there's an issue.

Milisim wrote:
....No one asks to borrow my dice anyways.... they are loaded to roll 1's =[

You sure you haven't swiped my dice when I wasn't looking mate?! Mine have that exact same problem!

I've had opponents ask me if I accidently loaded the wrong end of my dice by mistake they're so bad.

I think he shops at the same dice store as I do

They filter off the good dice and sell them online for huge sums, leaving the low-rollers for general consumption

My opponents refuse to use to use the same dice I just wounded with, to roll saves... they say "the dice will know"...

However, the same people will say (and HAVE said) that my my dice roll so many 6s...

I chalk it up to emotion combined with relativity, combined with recognition (my 6s are fleur de lys'... I bought them from chessex custom made, so it is very obvious when I get a 6...) People tend to forget that I've rolled more quadruple 1s with these things than my previous set, lol...

In fact, I rolled 6 ones in a row last night trying to wound a squad of banshees with str 5 or higher...*sigh*

It's no longer luck the moment you develop preference for it. The moment you are selecting one specific die for a specific roll, luck has gone out the window.

Ascalam wrote:I think he shops at the same dice store as I do

They filter off the good dice and sell them online for huge sums, leaving the low-rollers for general consumption

Idk if youre joking here or not (it wouldnt surprise me if there was a website that does this) so for my concern we'll say youre serious. If you were going online to a website that sold these "Lucky" dice would that be considered cheating?

I was joking, but i HAVE seen lucky dice up on Ebay etc (and loaded ones too ).

Using a dice that doesn't roll evenly would be cheating.

So would painting 6 spots on every space of a blank dice. I played a guy a while back who had done this. wasn't impressed.

Painting alternating 5's and 6's was his 'clever' improvement to this next tourney

Ascalam wrote:I was joking, but i HAVE seen lucky dice up on Ebay etc (and loaded ones too ).

Using a dice that doesn't roll evenly would be cheating.

So would painting 6 spots on every space of a blank dice. I played a guy a while back who had done this. wasn't impressed.

Painting alternating 5's and 6's was his 'clever' improvement to this next tourney

I figured you were joking but i could see some WAAC players paying high for these "lucky" dice. I dont get why people cheat, Id rather play fair and loss than cheat and win.

Every time i say something like that i get :

'That's because you're not a competitive player!'

Some of my best games are ones where i lost. Some of my worst were ones where I just OWNED the other guy.

A lot depends on the other player's attitude

pretre wrote:Does anyone have an example of a US tournament that does this?

If I recall, the ATC did this.

Ascalam wrote:Tournaments where i play have no such restriction, but they do fronw heavily on using dice that aren't standard markings.

For example the dice where the 6 and the one are both odd (and similar) symbols. Yes, they look awesome. Yes, they are really easy to cheat with if your opponent doesn't know which symbol is which at a glance

I actually use custom dice like this, as does one other person in my FLGS (I use blue/white dice with a wolf head symbol for the six, he uses black and green with a gold necron symbol for the six). What I find is that it's common courtesy to show your opponent before the game starts - just show them a die or two, show the custom facing, and then show the opposite side so they know that the symbol is the six or one.

Although I gotta say, I've never seen someone use dice where both the one AND the six are weird symbols. I mean, unless they're significantly different, I'd get confused even if they were my dice.

Ascalam wrote:Every time i say something like that i get :

'That's because you're not a competitive player!'

Some of my best games are ones where i lost. Some of my worst were ones where I just OWNED the other guy.

A lot depends on the other player's attitude

Same here. I play with really competitive players all the time and we usually have really good games. I hate it when i straight up rick roll their armies off the board

Sometimes, dice are very weird. I once had a dice roll nearly only 6s, never failing a roll. My opoonent took it and rolled a save for his terminator chaplain. He rolled a one. That particular die rolled only gak when he used it, and was phenomenal when i had it......