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Hello, I have thinking about some new rules for The Avatar of The Bloody-handed God. I think that the Avatar has the pathetic Wailing doom/meltagun. S:8 Ap :1 Assult 1. That does not make sense. How can the mighty weapon ( The Wailing Doom ) shoot a beam that has the exact same rules as a relugar meltagun. This is how I think it should be.

The Avatar cost 240 points. (Maybe higher or lower depending on your comments)

No changes to his stat line and no changing on special rules, Exept I am going to add some special rules.

The Avatars Wailing Doom: (Is not a melta gun, but) Range: Template S: 7 Ap :4 Assult 1, Melta. ( A template has the range of 8 inch and within the half of the range the melta special rule works against vehicles.) By the way, just because the wailing doom has a template as range does not mean it works as a powerful flamer. Imagine The Avatar is taking his sword and making a powerful smash on the ground and anything inside the template takes damage. Note that the Wailing Doom also ignores cover.

Avatars adding special rules: Khaines Wrath. This ability can only be used in combat instead of the Avatars close combat attacks. All models (including friendly models) within D6 inches of the Avatar takes a: S:5 Ap: 5.

The Avatar is DAEMON and should technically have the eternal warrior special rule since he is a daemon.

Love the Avatar but he definitely needs an overhaul:

Definte do's:
1. As a daemon, Eternal Warrior is a no brainer and it wouldn't increase his cost too much as he's T6 anyway.
2. If you've ever played the DoW video game you'll find it easier to see how GW intents the Wailing Doom to work at range. Personally, I'd like to see it become a BS10 multi-melta to make up for the big lack of speed (EDIT: or worse, similar to JotWW *evil grin*)
3. I'd also like to see his inspiring special ability provide him and his army with a Preferred Enemy bubble rather than a Fearless bubble.

Nifty adages that are not really needed:
1. Maybe also make the Wailing Doom S8/AP1 in assault to be consistent.
2. Going back to DoW for inspiration, an ability that exchanges normal attacks for a singular attack to all those in base contact could be fun.
3. As he's so slow an ability to monstrously 'stride' constantly at 6" instead of run at D6 like everyone else. No fleet though...
4. If not an increase in his speed as above (#3) then an increase in his durability. After all the guy is made completely of metal. Maybe 2+ and/or 3++, etc.

How about Khaine's Wrath being a S5 AP5 big blast on himself instead of close combat attacks.

Brother Haraldus. I think it is funnier if you could roll a D6 to determind how powerful The Avatar will be when using Khaines Wrath. Sometimes the Wrath has a longer radius duo to the Avatars rage. And if you are using a Large Blast instead of rolling a D6, the radius will always be 2,5 inches. It makes Khaines Wrath almost useless and no need to cost 240 points.

Looks good to me. At first i had the feeling that this would become an Avatar of Draigo, but things seems to have worked out pretty well!

@silentspy22 Just you and your bias ^^

If you're gonna tack on almost 100 additional points then I think he should get some more stuff to compensate. Alternatively, he could be like 185 points with your additions and he'd still be very powerful.

The problem with your suggestions IMHO is that you've added a lot of points to his cost, but not made him any tougher against Krak missiles, meaning the Avatar is left either too fragile or reliant on Fortune.

Personally, in my Eldar Codex in my signature, I've given the Avatar FNP, Fleet & Eternal Warrior, meaning he's significantly less reliant on Fortune and significantly more durable outside of combat.
On top of this, I improved the wailing doom to either provide a more versatile shooting attack or an additional attack, as well as letting him re-roll all to-wound and to-hit rolls.
For 225pts.

I would give him a 2+ save. He is a living metal statue of an immortal god, yet Hive Tyrant's are more armoured than him in some cases?

Greyish wrote:
4. If not an increase in his speed as above (#3) then an increase in his durability. After all the guy is made completely of metal. Maybe 2+ and/or 3++, etc.

I really hate how 3++ is becoming the standard save for everything these days. I would definitely be against this. 4++ is fine, but 3++ is just way too much. Especially with Eldrad hiding in the corner.

Fafnir wrote:

Greyish wrote:
4. If not an increase in his speed as above (#3) then an increase in his durability. After all the guy is made completely of metal. Maybe 2+ and/or 3++, etc.

I really hate how 3++ is becoming the standard save for everything these days. I would definitely be against this. 4++ is fine, but 3++ is just way too much. Especially with Eldrad hiding in the corner.

I see a kind-of "Walking God" as the place were you couldn't go wrong putting that 3++ save

jgehunter wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Greyish wrote:
4. If not an increase in his speed as above (#3) then an increase in his durability. After all the guy is made completely of metal. Maybe 2+ and/or 3++, etc.

I really hate how 3++ is becoming the standard save for everything these days. I would definitely be against this. 4++ is fine, but 3++ is just way too much. Especially with Eldrad hiding in the corner.

I see a kind-of "Walking God" as the place were you couldn't go wrong putting that 3++ save

Personally, I see a kind-of "game balance" as the place where you could barely go right putting that 3++ (potentially re-rollable) monstrous creature.

I've used in a number of games with friends the second edition avatar.
WS BS S T W I .. A LD Sv
10 10.. 8 8 .7 10 5 10 2+/4++

Then it was str 8 ap1 melta and ignored invul saves. Works great, and it's worth the 300 points he costs.

Fafnir wrote:

Greyish wrote:
4. If not an increase in his speed as above (#3) then an increase in his durability. After all the guy is made completely of metal. Maybe 2+ and/or 3++, etc.

I really hate how 3++ is becoming the standard save for everything these days. I would definitely be against this. 4++ is fine, but 3++ is just way too much. Especially with Eldrad hiding in the corner.

As I said above it - 'nifty... but not really needed'. If at all, what would you change to ensure he has a better chance of getting into combat?

I've only fought the Avatar a few times, but in my experience, any trouble he had getting into combat never had anything to do with durability (especially with Farseer support). The problem is mobility.

Fleet wouldn't be an entirely bad idea.

I think his points have gone up significantly for what amounts to a buff albeit a minor one.

I do like the blast radius thing though, reminds me of the DoW ability he has.
Perhaps reduce it to str4 as VS IG/Tau/DE etc it could be quite powerful (wounding on 2s).

I defently agree with you all. At first, when I made up with the rules of Avatar I did not think that you would like to play against him since me and most of my friends thought The Avatar would be cheap. But here is his new rules

Cost 250 points (maybe higher depending on your comment)

Statline: WS10 BS 5 S 7 T6 I 6 A 5 LD 10 Sv 3+/4++

The Wailing doom: Range: Template Str: 7 Ap: 3 Assult 1/Melta. Within the half of the range of the template you get the extra D6 for armor penetration.

The wailing doom makes a huge area of explosions and thats why the range is a template. (He is smashing his sword on the ground)

Khaines Wrath: Instead of using The Avatars CC attacks, he can make another special attack. All models ( Friend or Foe ) within D6 inches of the Avatar takes a Str: 4 Ap 5.

Inspiring: Every Eldar model within 12 inches of the Avatar gain Preferd Enemy and Fearless special rule.

Avatar also have the eternal warrior special rule because he is a Daemon.

The Avatar also have Feel No Pain special rule

Immune to melta and flamers, Heavy flamers.

Monsterus creature.

what do you think of this

Well, here are my suggested rules for an Avatar, taken from my Eldar Codex:

Really, the only major improvements I'm seeing are God of War and FNP, which don't justify the 65 point increase in cost. Likewise, it doesn't solve his mobility issues.

If you're going to put the Avatar up in the 200+ point range, you're going to need to make him more than a glorified beatstick, especially when said beatstick is so easy to avoid. Taking the statline from the official codex and giving him more support functions would certainly be a good start.

With the pace of the game as it is now, the Avatar either needs an increase to its mobility, or a change in focus.

He's gained an additional attack or additional ranged attacks, re-roll wounds, re-roll hits, eternal warrior, feel no pain and improved weapon immunity. Personally, I feel the FNP is deceptively effective on this guy:
With FNP, any missiles that hit him only have a 20% to wound, without Fortune. This means, that the only weapons effective (IMHO) against him in a standard Space Marine army are Lascannons and Plasma Guns (I believe a Demolisher Cannon and Assault Cannon are too situational) which are pretty fair. In a standard net-list Space Wolf army, this would typically only be 3 Razorbacks, or in an IG army probably only Vendettas, which can be neutralised by the rest of the Eldar army.
This suggests to me he should be able to run up the board with relative impunity, let alone if he had a Wraith/vehicle/cover shield or fortune.

I reckon he's going to be in a similar boat to the swarmlord; expensive but powerful and quite slow. However, even at 220pts I think the Avatar is powerful enough to just be able to be included without dedicated support; relied upon to either threaten the enemy enough to take their fire (saving your vehicles), buff your forces and then mash many things in assault.

Every avatar i have ran, does get into combat and is a beat stick. If you are playing eldar and can't control where your opponent is going, You might be doing something wrong at some point. The fearless bubble should just make them stubborn, Just because your god is standing at your side doesn't mean you still won't run away. and should give them furious charge. With the thinking that the god of war him self is telling you to charge in, thats enough to get the blood going for a charge.

The issues i have with him is the toughness 6, and the 3+ armor. if he was toughness 7 and a 2+/4++ save i would be happy. Assault cannons tear through the avatar. 3 to hit and 4 to wound is a little on the sorry side of things. The bubble of death around him, Random inches with a modifier would be cool. d6 inches plus one inch for each wound lost. Think of the hulk, The avatar gets mad and gets more and more angry.

Just giving this model fleet would be a 50 point increase. and would probally would make him more cheese then he is. The wailing doom should act as a force weapon. I think if you are wounded by a sword made of molten metal with an avatar behind it, you'd be dead. i know most models are ID by the avatar, but thunder calve? living though an avatar strike... Just my thinking with this, Other than that i like the rules. Just need to give the avatar more bang for the points. with your codex he is 45ish points away from some of the most powerful characters in the game and yet couldn't kill them in 1v1

Maybe allow him to be teleported from orbit, ie, deep strike? And possibly assault?