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So im starting Chaos Daemons sometime in the future and this is the list I am planing on taking. (it has been edited and refined based on suggestions I have recieved below )

1996pts New List

GUO w Cloud of Flies, Instrument of Chaos
2x Heralds of Tzeench w bolt, and Icons on chariots

2x3 Flamers of Tzeench

3x 9 Pink horrors w bolt
1x 9 Pink horrors w bolt and Changling

1x 4 Screamers of Tzeench
1x 3 Screamers of Tzeench

1x Daemon Princes of Nurgle w Breath of Chaos wings, noxios touch, and iron hide and Cloud of flies
2x Daemon Princes of Tzeench w Bolt and daemonic gaze (to take advantage of the MCs can fire two weapons and it can glance Armor 11 and mess up meq)


The only list I really forsee a problem with is a crap ton of GK interceptors (duh)
My Templates, of which I have 3, are surprising multi-role with the 50 percent chance to glance any vehicles touched by the template, I have 6 independently targeting bolts, and 100 warpfire shots. not to mention flamers. And for cc I plan on using my GUO and Nurgle DPs for a counter-charge role

The problem with this list is it does not really know what it is. It shoots worse than a shooty army, assaults worse than an assaulty army and might as well concede to a gunline. It has units that want to be aggressive (GUO, Princes, flamers) designed for a counter-charge/precision strike role married to units that put out mediocre shooting. That said, here is what I would do....

GUO have Noxious Touch, there is really no point puttign UM on them.

4x Icons are way too many. At 2000 points 2x is plenty, I run 1x most of the time and that is more than enough. Remember, often you do not want to DS where the icons are anyway from a tactical perspective.

10x PB is too many for a do nothing unit, make it a 5 or 7 to be loyal to the fluff, 1 icon here is not a bad idea for a non-preferred wave.

1x SG is asking to be owned at this point level, since you are going Tzeetch/Nurgle make it another DP IMO.

DP loadout - lose Breath, it is a waste on an already killy model. Also, you need Cloud of Flies, it is one of the best 6 (Edit: 5 point, oops) point upgrades in the game.

I would add The Changeling, 5 points of possible mischief and if you are running large Horror squads run 9x Horrors for the sacred number and then you can use the 10th in the box for a conversion to a herald.

Speaking of heralds, throw them both on Chariots and give them Master of Sorcery, not We Are Legion, so they can shoot both Bolt and Gaze.

This covers most the big items, the problem with this list overall is it lacks any real hitting power (I know 3x Greater Daemon variants and all) but Tyranids lose all the time with the equivalent in Monstrous Creatures.

I would throw a large brick of crushers into this army to Anchor it (make it an 8x Crushers w/ Full command). then drop the GUO use the last Crusher from the 3 boxes you had to buy to make a Herald of Khorne and throw him with them for more saturation.

calypso2ts wrote:The problem with this list is it does not really know what it is. It shoots worse than a shooty army, assaults worse than an assaulty army and might as well concede to a gunline. It has units that want to be aggressive (GUO, Princes, flamers) designed for a counter-charge/precision strike role married to units that put out mediocre shooting. That said, here is what I would do....

GUO have Noxious Touch, there is really no point puttign UM on them.

4x Icons are way too many. At 2000 points 2x is plenty, I run 1x most of the time and that is more than enough. Remember, often you do not want to DS where the icons are anyway from a tactical perspective.

10x PB is too many for a do nothing unit, make it a 5 or 7 to be loyal to the fluff, 1 icon here is not a bad idea for a non-preferred wave.

1x SG is asking to be owned at this point level, since you are going Tzeetch/Nurgle make it another DP IMO.

DP loadout - lose Breath, it is a waste on an already killy model. Also, you need Cloud of Flies, it is one of the best 6 (Edit: 5 point, oops) point upgrades in the game.

I would add The Changeling, 5 points of possible mischief and if you are running large Horror squads run 9x Horrors for the sacred number and then you can use the 10th in the box for a conversion to a herald.

Speaking of heralds, throw them both on Chariots and give them Master of Sorcery, not We Are Legion, so they can shoot both Bolt and Gaze.

This covers most the big items, the problem with this list overall is it lacks any real hitting power (I know 3x Greater Daemon variants and all) but Tyranids lose all the time with the equivalent in Monstrous Creatures.

I would throw a large brick of crushers into this army to Anchor it (make it an 8x Crushers w/ Full command). then drop the GUO use the last Crusher from the 3 boxes you had to buy to make a Herald of Khorne and throw him with them for more saturation.

To be honest, I am not sure how my list is confused. Its all shooty, with very little focus paid to assault... which is what I wanted. The breath of chaos was essential in my strategy to remove threats that have cover saves and vehicle suppression. The bolts are, obviously, anti tank/mc I wanted the GUO and daemon princes for threat to keep people away from my pink horrors, or to smash them back when they do. I was definitly on the fence about the soul grinder, so thank you for confirming my dilemma and solving it!

I will definitly throw away my plague bearers and resurect them with only 7 pbs, drop all the pink horror squads down to 9 w bolt, and change the soul grinder out for a daemon prince of tzeench w bolt?

I want to avoid Khorne for the time being, and when I get Khorne... I wanna run nurgle... because its imperative to have khorne in the poop XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So the revised 2000 pt list is

Greater Unclean One: Goh Bahst the Reviler
w Breath Of chaos and Aura of decay

2x Herald of Tzeench
Oxicah and Hacixo
Bolt, Master of Sorcery

2x 3 Flamers of Tzeench

x2 7 Plague Bearers w Icon

3x 9 pink horrors w Bolt and

2x Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Ophileam the defiler :wings, noxious touch, iron hide
Kag'rop, Fiend of Helghast: wings Noxious touch, Iron hide

Daemon Prince of Tzeench
Payhrast'ki, Riddler of Fates: Bolt of Change

I understand the concept of how this list is supposed to work, I just do not see it panning out the way you outline it. Also, a Slow and Purposeful MC will never be able to breath anything worth shooting.

I would play a few games with this list to get a feel for it before investing in all these models. I think you are going to find it plays much differently than you hoped.

calypso2ts wrote:I understand the concept of how this list is supposed to work, I just do not see it panning out the way you outline it. Also, a Slow and Purposeful MC will never be able to breath anything worth shooting.

I would play a few games with this list to get a feel for it before investing in all these models. I think you are going to find it plays much differently than you hoped.

Well the DP's were my main "breathers," And its just an auxillary tactic to take care of pesky storm ravens with 3+ or 4+ cover saves. And I will have very little qualms about dropping 2-4 MCs infront of someone and saying" Have fun" while throwing 3-6 bolts at their transports, and then breathing a few of the goodies that would spill out. But your correct, I have NEVER played daemons, and it will be a total hoot to get them on the board

I've been playing daemons for awhile now, albeit always trying to keep a 4 god list running at 2k. Things I have learned with many of the daemon models.

Flamers- 1 shot wonders at best unless crushers or letters are around. They will absolutely destroy most squads and are decent vehicle harass, but are a very high priority target once they have done flaming to a squad. I normally run them in groups of 5 so when you deepstrike in you can get 3 templates on the initial attack. Again you need something more threatening than a prince standing near them so they won't get shot to hell. you may want to try bigger groups of them if you don't want them to be a drop shoot and then die model.

GUO- He's a cheap MC for the codex, other than that he's not terribly worth it. Thirsters are T6 as well and have a 3+ save and mobility also normal marines hit them on 5's in melee. LoC have mobility as well as a 3++ save protecting them from most MC's banes IE las melta and plas. Never actually ran a keeper, but I can imagine I10 is nice. GUO is slow, is I2 so at least gets to swing before a power fist. His FNP is great except for the fact that most armies shooting at him will be using AP1 or 2 weapons thus nullifying any benefit from that. He's also extremely hard to get into melee without ideal DS landings. If you take one just give it cloud and noxious, leave off everything else not worth it to point spend on the model.

DP's- I hate these personally. For the points of those 2 decked out nurgle princes with a mighty 4 wounds at T6 you could field almost 2x 6 man squads of crushers which is 24 wounds. The only type of prince I ran was tzeentch since 4++ is about the only way to make them remotely survivable. T6 is nice, but remember most guns shooting at them will be Str 8. Wings is also to me not that great of an option for DP's just run them as Tzeentch with bolt and either boon or breath if you really want to, but base tzeentch with bolt is good. Also always give them an instrument, they have an annoying habit of wiffing in melee.

Plague's- I love these guys. Our tournaments are always Capture point heavy so having the T5 squad that you have to kill to the last man to get off a point is amazing. They are good for tying up unwanted melees and allowing your more melee oriented models to get in and slaughter the squads. Downside for them is with your list they won't really work. Yes they will tie up some unit in melee, but you have nothing but a prince or the GUO that can go in there and help them actually win the melee. It would be as effective to just ditch them for more pinks. Also always put instruments on plagues they love to just tie combats.

I've learned mostly on daemons that number of wounds seems to be better than flashy. Minus running weaver which is a whole nother ball game, you want as many wounds as you can get on the field without losing effectiveness. I do use Fateweaver (Yes I know I'm a horrible person and call me what you like). This is what my list looks like it won me a tourney where I had to deal with a drago wing(ended with Gk's being tabled, me having a squad of plagues and 1 herald left).

333 Fateweaver
110 Herald of slaanesh w/ chariot, Unholy might, Pavane, Musk
110 Herald of slaanesh w/ chariot, Unholy might, Pavane, Musk
280 6x Bloodcrushers w/ Fury, Icon, Insturment
280 6x Bloodcrushers w/ Fury, Icon, Insturment
180 10x plaguebearers w/ icon, instrument
155 10x plaguebearers w/ insturment
265 15x Bloodletters w/ icon
175 10x Seekers w/ insturment
64 4x Screamers
48 3x Screamers

I will never recommend seekers without fate or run them in squads of 15 to let them actually make a combat. You can see how much I use greater daemons, the screamers are great since they tie up dreadnaughts with a nice 4++ save and may actually do something to them to boot. Your army right now will probably drop dead in melee minus the princes may take a few squads with them.

icefire78 wrote:I've been playing daemons for awhile now, albeit always trying to keep a 4 god list running at 2k. Things I have learned with many of the daemon models.

Flamers- 1 shot wonders at best unless crushers or letters are around. They will absolutely destroy most squads and are decent vehicle harass, but are a very high priority target once they have done flaming to a squad. I normally run them in groups of 5 so when you deepstrike in you can get 3 templates on the initial attack. Again you need something more threatening than a prince standing near them so they won't get shot to hell. you may want to try bigger groups of them if you don't want them to be a drop shoot and then die model.

GUO- He's a cheap MC for the codex, other than that he's not terribly worth it. Thirsters are T6 as well and have a 3+ save and mobility also normal marines hit them on 5's in melee. LoC have mobility as well as a 3++ save protecting them from most MC's banes IE las melta and plas. Never actually ran a keeper, but I can imagine I10 is nice. GUO is slow, is I2 so at least gets to swing before a power fist. His FNP is great except for the fact that most armies shooting at him will be using AP1 or 2 weapons thus nullifying any benefit from that. He's also extremely hard to get into melee without ideal DS landings. If you take one just give it cloud and noxious, leave off everything else not worth it to point spend on the model.

DP's- I hate these personally. For the points of those 2 decked out nurgle princes with a mighty 4 wounds at T6 you could field almost 2x 6 man squads of crushers which is 24 wounds. The only type of prince I ran was tzeentch since 4++ is about the only way to make them remotely survivable. T6 is nice, but remember most guns shooting at them will be Str 8. Wings is also to me not that great of an option for DP's just run them as Tzeentch with bolt and either boon or breath if you really want to, but base tzeentch with bolt is good. Also always give them an instrument, they have an annoying habit of wiffing in melee.

Plague's- I love these guys. Our tournaments are always Capture point heavy so having the T5 squad that you have to kill to the last man to get off a point is amazing. They are good for tying up unwanted melees and allowing your more melee oriented models to get in and slaughter the squads. Downside for them is with your list they won't really work. Yes they will tie up some unit in melee, but you have nothing but a prince or the GUO that can go in there and help them actually win the melee. It would be as effective to just ditch them for more pinks. Also always put instruments on plagues they love to just tie combats.

I've learned mostly on daemons that number of wounds seems to be better than flashy. Minus running weaver which is a whole nother ball game, you want as many wounds as you can get on the field without losing effectiveness. I do use Fateweaver (Yes I know I'm a horrible person and call me what you like). This is what my list looks like it won me a tourney where I had to deal with a drago wing(ended with Gk's being tabled, me having a squad of plagues and 1 herald left).

333 Fateweaver
110 Herald of slaanesh w/ chariot, Unholy might, Pavane, Musk
110 Herald of slaanesh w/ chariot, Unholy might, Pavane, Musk
280 6x Bloodcrushers w/ Fury, Icon, Insturment
280 6x Bloodcrushers w/ Fury, Icon, Insturment
180 10x plaguebearers w/ icon, instrument
155 10x plaguebearers w/ insturment
265 15x Bloodletters w/ icon
175 10x Seekers w/ insturment
64 4x Screamers
48 3x Screamers

I will never recommend seekers without fate or run them in squads of 15 to let them actually make a combat. You can see how much I use greater daemons, the screamers are great since they tie up dreadnaughts with a nice 4++ save and may actually do something to them to boot. Your army right now will probably drop dead in melee minus the princes may take a few squads with them.

Thanks for the c&c I actually just played my list, against (for fun) 30 foot slogging khorn berserkers, 6 in a land raider w abbadon, kharn the betrayer, 5 raptors w meltagun srg w power weapon and plasma pistol, and a khornate DP w wings.

The only reason the game was a (lucky for me and almost a loss) draw, was because I had no idea how to properly deploy given my list, my list ( for what I wanted it to do) was not optimally constructed, and my opponent had an illegal list... there is a REASON you shouldnt be able to take 3 hqs w CSM O.O

But on the whole, I was suprised at the amount of shooting my list had, the effectiveness of it, and the potential counter assaults (when properly directed) are disgusting.

I made some adjustments to my list based on my experience today, it looks like this

GUO w flies
2x Herald of Tzeench w we are legion, master of sorcery and bolt
2x3 Flamers of Tzeench
2x 15 Pink horrors w bolt and Icon
10 Pink Horrors w bolt and changling
DP of Nurgle w Noxious touch Iron Hide, Breath of chaos,boon of mutation and wings
2x DP of Tzeench w Bolt, boon, and soul devourer

2x Daemon Prince of Nurgle w Wings, noxious touch, iron hide

Soul Devourer is terrible - it only ID when they fail a LD test and almost any multi wound model will be Ld 10. Further, Boon has a 6" range and you have a 24" bolt, a Tzeetch Prince is primarily a shootin platform, you do not want to be close enough to get rapid fired, that 4++ and T5 will not stand up well at all. It takes about 36 Bolter shots to put down a DP (or 2 squads firing with no special weapons or 1 squad firing pistols, and charging with a fist).

I see 5 Princes listed, I assume the last 2 are typos. Kitting your prince out to be way over 200 points is a really bad idea. Also, you should have Cloud of Flies on a Nurgle Prince as mandatory. I would lose Breath and Boon on them, add in Cloud of Flies.

Also, an all foot list with almost no shooting is one a Daemon army should obliterate.

calypso2ts wrote:Soul Devourer is terrible - it only ID when they fail a LD test and almost any multi wound model will be Ld 10. Further, Boon has a 6" range and you have a 24" bolt, a Tzeetch Prince is primarily a shootin platform, you do not want to be close enough to get rapid fired, that 4++ and T5 will not stand up well at all. It takes about 36 Bolter shots to put down a DP (or 2 squads firing with no special weapons or 1 squad firing pistols, and charging with a fist).

I see 5 Princes listed, I assume the last 2 are typos. Kitting your prince out to be way over 200 points is a really bad idea. Also, you should have Cloud of Flies on a Nurgle Prince as mandatory. I would lose Breath and Boon on them, add in Cloud of Flies.

Also, an all foot list with almost no shooting is one a Daemon army should obliterate.

Boon is there for model sniping, and if my opponent has 2 squads of marines who can just rapid fire my dp, then I am doing something REALLY wrong. The 5 princes indeed where typos,

Heavy Support will look like
1x Nurgle DP w Wings, Iron Hide, touch, cloud of flies
2x DP of Tzeench w Bolt, boon and soul syphon ( For MC's and the odd nob if I get biker nob'd or something(for pfist sniping, and the odd SC instasquig)

Soul Devourer is still terrible....adding an ability for one list (nob bikers) is a good way to lose to other armies.

Same with boon, it puts ranged shooting platform princes within 6" of the enemy so they can get destroyed.

calypso2ts wrote:Soul Devourer is still terrible....adding an ability for one list (nob bikers) is a good way to lose to other armies.

Same with boon, it puts ranged shooting platform princes within 6" of the enemy so they can get destroyed.

With soul devourer begin cheap, its worth it to me to have the utility (ten points is cheap) Boon, is not the primary weapon, but it again, adds versatility to the unit. You cant stop people from getting within 6 inches of your models in 40k. ESPECIALLY if your opponent is blood angels, or fast knights, space wolves thunder cav etc. So having the ability to instasquig say, mephiston, a thunderwolf lord w eternal warrior, swarmlord etc, before they walk their way through your army is pretty handy, that and 60 points wouldn't augment my army enough for me to really consider dropping it.

SO while this may be a point of agreeing to disagree, what are your criticisms of the rest of the army?

10 points here, 50 points there is how you fill a list with frills and lose your killing power.

calypso2ts wrote:10 points here, 50 points there is how you fill a list with frills and lose your killing power.

Ya well ten points is only ten points. Especially when I had literally nothing I could spend my last points up on. SO I used 10 points to give each DP the ability to cause ID

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:10 points here, 50 points there is how you fill a list with frills and lose your killing power.

Ya well ten points is only ten points. Especially when I had literally nothing I could spend my last points up on. SO I used 10 points to give each DP the ability to cause ID

You also have 4x DP's which is illegal. Calypso has basically hit the nail on the head buddy, your being stubborn and refusing to take advice from one of the more experienced Daemon players here.

That being said, as for your list:
- I know why your taking boon, but Breath of Chaos is far better. Boon is pretty craptacular.
- 9 man horror squads is a bit overkill, i'd recommend cutting them down. Then again you don't have weaver so maybe....
- Soul Devourer is terribad no matter how you look at it. Also you have to cause an unsaved wound. Its only decent against TWC, but then if your DP is against a squad of those, your prolly going to die anyway.
- Icon's are not needed, many daemon players run 0-1
- GUO is incredibly slow

Overall your list lacks mobility and, most of all, killing power or resilience. You have 2 semi-hard to kill units (GUO, DP of Nurgle), and 5 mobile units. You only have 1 thing in your whole list anyone would fear in CC. Your GUO people can easily run from, and this list would have a hard time against a lot of metabuilds. I recommend following Calypso's advice.

Zid wrote:

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:10 points here, 50 points there is how you fill a list with frills and lose your killing power.

Ya well ten points is only ten points. Especially when I had literally nothing I could spend my last points up on. SO I used 10 points to give each DP the ability to cause ID

You also have 4x DP's which is illegal. Calypso has basically hit the nail on the head buddy, your being stubborn and refusing to take advice from one of the more experienced Daemon players here.

That being said, as for your list:
- I know why your taking boon, but Breath of Chaos is far better. Boon is pretty craptacular.
- 9 man horror squads is a bit overkill, i'd recommend cutting them down. Then again you don't have weaver so maybe....
- Soul Devourer is terribad no matter how you look at it. Also you have to cause an unsaved wound. Its only decent against TWC, but then if your DP is against a squad of those, your prolly going to die anyway.
- Icon's are not needed, many daemon players run 0-1
- GUO is incredibly slow

Overall your list lacks mobility and, most of all, killing power or resilience. You have 2 semi-hard to kill units (GUO, DP of Nurgle), and 5 mobile units. You only have 1 thing in your whole list anyone would fear in CC. Your GUO people can easily run from, and this list would have a hard time against a lot of metabuilds. I recommend following Calypso's advice.

You didnt read my revision did you? I only have 3 heavy support. I found that when all was said and done I had 20 points left over, and had nowhere to put them, so I figure, I may aswell give my DPs something extra, so I went with soulstealer (because I couldnt use anything else). Now you telling me Boon < Breath is something I will take into consideration, as I can easily find the points to shift that stuff around and get breath instead.

And its precisely because they are surprisingly survivable, being able to save 1/2 of any kind of wound, that I am taking larger squads of pink horrors. Now as far as the slow GUO, IF my opponent is taking the time to move away from, shoot at, or assault into it, those are choices I plan on taking advantage of.

Yes, I am stubborn, because I want to use builds that noone else does, because its not internet certified, but to say that I have ignored advice out of hand is untrue. From my first list on this thread, to the second list, and into my revision, I DID use calypso2ts advice, just not all of it. I didnt ask for you guys to BUILD me a list, I asked for comments and criticism, which was given, and which I utilized in the reconstruction of my list. /end


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So new list # 4

GUO w Cloud of Flies, Noxious touch
2x Herald of tzeench w Bolt, Master of Sorcery, we are legion

2x 3 flamers

3x9 Horrors w bolt
1x9 horrors w bolt and changling

6 Screamers of tzeench

2x Nurgle Daemon Prince w Iron Hide, Flight, Noxious touch, cloud of flies

Tzeench Daemon Prince w Bolt and Daemonic Gaze

Its 2000 points right on the button

I have only recently started playing daemons myself, but I think this list will struggle to be competitive.

While I love the concept of wings on my DPs, the cost is too much to be competitive. Also, I find that DPs are simply not that resilient. They look mean and scary, but most people just shoot everything they have at them to force you to make a ton of saves and they fall over. Granted, I do not run Nurgle daemons, so they may prove to be a bit tougher.

Despite the 4+ save of horrors, they will die VERY quickly. They are toughness 3 and while your 9 horrors may make half their saves, they will still be taking 15-20 saves a round from bolter fire or its equivalent.

I am not sure how you plan on splitting your waves up, but I would expect your opponents to simply ignore your plague bearers while they deal with the scarier stuff first. Flamers and horrors will die very fast. Leaving you with very little shooty and a slow moving C&C list that your opponent will probably then proceed to attack piece meal.

Now, given that you don't want a cookie cutter list, I would recommend the following:

1. Shave down the points of your DPs. Your are dropping roughly 200 points a piece on those Nurgle princes and I think you will be disappointed in what they end up doing compared to the points you are paying out for.

2. Shave down your horror squads to free up more points.

3. Mount your Heralds on Discs, or preferably chariots. This increases their toughness, adds wounds, etc. It makes them highly mobile shooting platforms your opponent will need to deal with.

4. Think about changing your 2 DPs of Tzeentch to bolt and gaze. Combined with 3 above would give your 4 bolt / gaze platforms with 4+ saves, multi-wounds, etc. While I LOVE boon of mutation and breath, more times than not your going to find yourself wishing you could touch something a little bit further away.

5. Bring back one squad of plague bearers so you at least have one resilient troops choice to hold an objective.

Lastly, keep in mind this is your list and your army. You are going to get TONS of internet advice crapping over your lists. The only way to find out if it will really work is to play the game. Some things work, some don't. But, the beauty of it is you can play this game however you want to. I try out new things all the time as I really do not like the idea of playing the same list over and over and over again. Take everything I have said with a grain of salt. You asked for opinions, I gave you one. Calypso gave you another. The only thing I can say with absolute certainty is that there is absolutely zero chance you will ever post an army list on the internets and have a 100% response of how great it is. That is just the way the internets is.

Green is Best! wrote:I have only recently started playing daemons myself, but I think this list will struggle to be competitive.

While I love the concept of wings on my DPs, the cost is too much to be competitive. Also, I find that DPs are simply not that resilient. They look mean and scary, but most people just shoot everything they have at them to force you to make a ton of saves and they fall over. Granted, I do not run Nurgle daemons, so they may prove to be a bit tougher.

Despite the 4+ save of horrors, they will die VERY quickly. They are toughness 3 and while your 9 horrors may make half their saves, they will still be taking 15-20 saves a round from bolter fire or its equivalent.

I am not sure how you plan on splitting your waves up, but I would expect your opponents to simply ignore your plague bearers while they deal with the scarier stuff first. Flamers and horrors will die very fast. Leaving you with very little shooty and a slow moving C&C list that your opponent will probably then proceed to attack piece meal.

Now, given that you don't want a cookie cutter list, I would recommend the following:

1. Shave down the points of your DPs. Your are dropping roughly 200 points a piece on those Nurgle princes and I think you will be disappointed in what they end up doing compared to the points you are paying out for.

2. Shave down your horror squads to free up more points.

3. Mount your Heralds on Discs, or preferably chariots. This increases their toughness, adds wounds, etc. It makes them highly mobile shooting platforms your opponent will need to deal with.

4. Think about changing your 2 DPs of Tzeentch to bolt and gaze. Combined with 3 above would give your 4 bolt / gaze platforms with 4+ saves, multi-wounds, etc. While I LOVE boon of mutation and breath, more times than not your going to find yourself wishing you could touch something a little bit further away.

5. Bring back one squad of plague bearers so you at least have one resilient troops choice to hold an objective.

Lastly, keep in mind this is your list and your army. You are going to get TONS of internet advice crapping over your lists. The only way to find out if it will really work is to play the game. Some things work, some don't. But, the beauty of it is you can play this game however you want to. I try out new things all the time as I really do not like the idea of playing the same list over and over and over again. Take everything I have said with a grain of salt. You asked for opinions, I gave you one. Calypso gave you another. The only thing I can say with absolute certainty is that there is absolutely zero chance you will ever post an army list on the internets and have a 100% response of how great it is. That is just the way the internets is.

Well I played a game again today, and I found the Nurgly Princes to be incredibly nasty to kill from anything short of AT.

I will definitly think about putting heralds on disks as that allows me much more target saturation (none to easy to simply wipe out at that) and I definitly think it would have helped today. I found myself wishing my Nurgle Princes had breath, but DSing a GUO and 2 DPs of nurgle allowed my Pink Horrors to maul what my opponent had on the ground as he was busy during the one round of shooting he had trying to kill my nurgle princes. Between my tzeench prince, my heralds, and my pink horrors, I was not short of vehicle suppression. I by no means expected accolades from the webz, but being called stubborn and told that i was ignoring advice was untrue and i felt compelled to state that. thank you for your constructive criticism and your advice much appreciated and will certainly be taken into consideration

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:
Yes, I am stubborn, because I want to use builds that noone else does, because its not internet certified, but to say that I have ignored advice out of hand is untrue. From my first list on this thread, to the second list, and into my revision, I DID use calypso2ts advice, just not all of it. I didnt ask for you guys to BUILD me a list, I asked for comments and criticism, which was given, and which I utilized in the reconstruction of my list. /end


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So new list # 4

GUO w Cloud of Flies, Noxious touch
2x Herald of tzeench w Bolt, Master of Sorcery, we are legion

2x 3 flamers

3x9 Horrors w bolt
1x9 horrors w bolt and changling

6 Screamers of tzeench

2x Nurgle Daemon Prince w Iron Hide, Flight, Noxious touch, cloud of flies

Tzeench Daemon Prince w Bolt and Daemonic Gaze

Its 2000 points right on the button

OK I guess the better question would be, then, is: what are you trying to do? If your trying to be competative, play competitive lists and build from those games.

GUO's aren't that hard to kill. Heralds of T evenon chariots are pretty easily mowed down in 1 round of CC. Screamers aren't that effective as they target AV 14, which you rarely run into nowadays, and normally you'll need 6's to hit. Blocks of horrors are OK, but they don't live long normally anyway. Your nurgle prince build is pretty much perfect, as is your foot prince.

Daemons are a very hard army to build correctly, just tossing stuff down won't work, and every unit in the army (much like nids) needs to back up one another. Thats why I ask if your trying for competitive loadouts or just building an army.

Zid wrote:

OK I guess the better question would be, then, is: what are you trying to do? If your trying to be competative, play competitive lists and build from those games.

GUO's aren't that hard to kill. Heralds of T evenon chariots are pretty easily mowed down in 1 round of CC. Screamers aren't that effective as they target AV 14, which you rarely run into nowadays, and normally you'll need 6's to hit. Blocks of horrors are OK, but they don't live long normally anyway. Your nurgle prince build is pretty much perfect, as is your foot prince.

Daemons are a very hard army to build correctly, just tossing stuff down won't work, and every unit in the army (much like nids) needs to back up one another. Thats why I ask if your trying for competitive loadouts or just building an army.

GUO's job really is suicide and drawing fire for a turn or two, if he isnt shot and whipped in assault. Hes in my 2nd wave preferably. Screamers are for armor hunting, but also for the lovely threat they provide to the thrice cursed psyfleman dread, lets see you shoot down 7 tiny little turbo boosting jetbikes that you wont be able to draw line of site

The chariot herolds are on jet bikes and as such, will most likely not be ANYwhere close enough for my opponent to assault. Also, they will allow me to quickly put my army where I want it.
I know what people have said about the Nurgle Prince and points cost, but for the time being I want to see if he gels as well with this list, as he has so far ( have had 2 more games since my last, the 2nd was much more mechd up list then the previous one. The nurgle prince w breath did an incredible job of eating the assault squads that came my way)

** The list in my post has been edited to its current state**

This army is great, though I do suggest something. In games you don't involve GUO, put in Fateweaver. His Oracle of Eternity rule is excellent and is usually what keeps my Tzeetch army alive. And having multiple Chaos Icons is good, as with putting some in each daemonic assault wave makes sure that your troops don't mishap second turn of them popping out of the warp.

Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim wrote:This army is great, though I do suggest something. In games you don't involve GUO, put in Fateweaver. His Oracle of Eternity rule is excellent and is usually what keeps my Tzeetch army alive. And having multiple Chaos Icons is good, as with putting some in each daemonic assault wave makes sure that your troops don't mishap second turn of them popping out of the warp.

Thanks. I dont want fate weaver simply to avoid doing what EVERYONE else does. PLUS its more points I dont want to spend XD Trying to shave off almost over 100 points from my army and the GUO to make room for fateweaver is not what I would prefer. But, I do plan on getting some friendly games in with my list. If I ever took it to a tourny I would DEFINITLY drop off the points and the GUO to make room for fateweaver just to ensure I have the proper amount of abuse in my list as possible XD ( I MIGHT even give my original list a shot in some locals

I only have 2 icons because I will be sending my heralds in each wave, so no matter what I have an Icon. ALL I need to do is turboboost around for a 3+ cover save, and when my army starts to arrive they have that sweet sweet no scattery goodness Then I can open up with the daemonic fire and BOOM my opponent is