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I have a friend who plays a very competitive and effective Tau list. From what I have read most people consider the Tau a joke but, I have seen my friend destroy entire necron and space marine armies without taking a single casualty. He runs a heavy crisis suit, fire warrior, and hammerhead list. I'm going up against him for the first time in a few weeks and would love some good solid tips so I could wipe the floor with his huge ego.

I have a pretty standard assortment of DE units and we allow for proxying so I'll post what I have and any new ideas for what I should take in battle be it units or for wargear would be appreciated.

Another side note: We are playing a 1500 point game.


1 Archon
5 incubi
3 raiders
20 kabilites
10 wychs
3 reavers
1 voidraven
1 venom


Thanks in advance

Sadly, if those are your only DE options for models, you are going to lose.

Get into CC as fast and hard as possible?

That is what I feared. But for future fights what would be a good idea for units or war gear that is effective.

Also If I needed some thing we are allowing proxies so kabilites could be wychs

Or I could talk to a friend and get more reavers

Any ideas are appreciated.

Mr.Pirate wrote: I have a friend who plays a very competitive and effective Tau list. From what I have read most people consider the Tau a joke but, I have seen my friend destroy entire necron and space marine armies without taking a single casualty. He runs a heavy crisis suit, fire warrior, and hammerhead list. I'm going up against him for the first time in a few weeks and would love some good solid tips so I could wipe the floor with his huge ego.

I have a pretty standard assortment of DE units and we allow for proxying so I'll post what I have and any new ideas for what I should take in battle be it units or for wargear would be appreciated.

Another side note: We are playing a 1500 point game.


1 Archon
5 incubi
3 raiders
20 kabilites
10 wychs
3 reavers
1 voidraven
1 venom


Thanks in advance

hope you can proxy 10 of your warriors as another squad of wyches
then divide your wyches into 3 units of 7

so 3 units of 7 wyches and hextrix in the 3 raiders

2 units of 5 warriors with a blaster one in a venom 1 on foot

proxy the voidraven as a Razorwing. Voidravens suck, you should NEVER take them.

Leave the Incubi and Archon at home

3 reavers cannot do much, hope your opponent doesnt know this and bothers to shoot at them while they turbo boost around.


so that is a pretty small list thus far. You need to add another venom for the second squad of warriors
a ravager or 2 to stun his tanks
haemonculus for pain tokens and flamers
Baron and hellions (going first is great and a big unit of fast stealthed light CC should attract some fire)


If I am playing tau I want to stun his tanks and get lots of wyches into CC on the first or second turn.

Mr.Pirate wrote: I have a friend who plays a very competitive and effective Tau list. From what I have read most people consider the Tau a joke but, I have seen my friend destroy entire necron and space marine armies without taking a single casualty.

I feel honored, Mr.Pirate! Also, I'm in your base, watching your advisors...

Poster above is the tau player who will be smited


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about this:

1 boat with 5 wychs 1 hextrix 1 sucubuss 1 haemonculas

1 boat with 6 wychs 1 hextrix 1 haemonculas

1 boat with 6 wychs 1 hextrix 1 haemonculas

2 venoms with 5 warriors

3 reavers

1 void raven for tank busting

Things to note from your list:
Wyches are effective in squads of 7 without a Haemi and squads of 9 with a Haemi. Always give them Haywire Grenades and a Hekatrix with an Agonizer. Give your Haemi a Liquifier. Give the Warriors a Blaster.

Target saturation is your friend. Keep units specialized, and have a target priority in mind before the game begins. Don't think like a marine player.

Here is my 1500 list:

HQ 60 - Haemonculous w/ Liquifier
Troops 218 - Wyches x 9 w/ Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix, Agonizer, Raider, FF, NS
Troops 125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Venom, SC x 2
Troops 125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Venom, SC x 2
Troops 125 - Warriors x 5 w/ Blaster, Venom, SC x 2
Fast 156 - Beastmasters x 3 w/ Razorwing Flock x 4, Khymera x 5
Elites 173 - Trueborn x 4 w/ Blaster x 4, Venom, SC x 2
Elites 173 - Trueborn x 4 w/ Blaster x 4, Venom, SC x 2
Heavy 115 - Ravager w/ FF
Heavy 115 - Ravager w/ FF
Heavy 115 - Ravager w/ FF

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like you have the models to run this list. 60 Splinter Cannon shots, 21 Dark Light weapons, and 2 assault squads (Beasts and Wyches) will tear a Tau list to shreds.

I plan on slowly acquiring more venoms and ravagers over time but, sadly at this point I have no where near the funds.

Don't have my book in front of me to count points, but I'd consider the following:

Archon +wwp
4 incubi
Venom (2 splinter cannons)

10 Wyches
Raider w/FF and DL

5 warriors w/blaster

5 warriors w/blaster

4 warriors w/blaster

3 trueborn w/blasters

3 trueborn w/blasters
3 Reavers w/Heat Lance

Raider proxied as a Ravager
Raider proxied as a Ravager
Razorwing Jetfighter


------
I'd reserve the ravagers, jetfighter, all warrior squads and the reavers.

When deploying I'd make sure that my archon and wyches were in as much cover as possible.

The goal of the archon is to simply get the portal placed in a good spot to give you options when your reserves arrive. Either close to one half of his army so they can start sweeping them away or close enough to objectives to grab them when you can. Either way, place it as quickly as possible.

The reavers should play duck and cover until it's time to contest. Hide them, pop out on each turn to get a shot off then use their special rule to jump back in cover. If you see a target of opportunity where you can hide in cover at the end of the movement, go ahead and use the bladevanes.

The incubi are there to try and hit something before it can get your archon. Personally, I've never had much luck keeping an archon alive after dropping a portal, so good luck.

For the wyches, take advantage of driving 12", and dropping them off to shoot and assault something. Haywire grenades are your friend. In a clutch, use them to speed bump some of his units in order to delay them while you move into position.

I also have the Jetfighter model, but I've only used it once so far. Worthless against marines (at least in the default config) so really consider your missile options with what you believe your opponent will bring.

The ravagers should try to down his hammerheads. The trueborns go for the crisis suits.

-----------

Okay, now long term goals: get more venoms. Also get a couple of ravagers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, I really prefer having a Haemi's instead of an Archon. However, with the models you have I just can't figure out how to get all of the units in place while still still having decent AT.

clively wrote: The trueborns go for the crisis suits..

Pro tip: don't do that. Drones exist for a reason.

Also, what are those juicy Kabalite squads going to do? Walk?

Shas'elMont'au wrote:

clively wrote: The trueborns go for the crisis suits..

Pro tip: don't do that. Drones exist for a reason.

I disagree. Odds are decent that 4 lances will hit and wound, Mathahammer says 3. And you've only two drones per crew to absorb the STR8 ID fun. Trublasters ain't too shabby for DE when hunting XV8s.

Shas'elMont'au wrote:Also, what are those juicy Kabalite squads going to do? Walk?

Exactly, Shas'elMont'au.

clively was right, but I'd skip the Archon. 3 haems with warriors in the 3 boats, each Liquifiers and WWP. One WWP at mid-table, one mid-rightflank, and the last on the left. That ought to 'corner' Shas'elMont'au's forces.

If tau go first all boats will get dropped, so go all Reserve and pray for dice god kindness.

If DE go first, bring the boats up, haems hop out with warrior ablatives, he dumps the WWP and they (8 splinter rifles and the blaster) gun up some XV8s. Every thing comes in from their.

I will not call that an auto win by any means. You're out gunned in models. With venoms and Ravs, DE out gun tau. Blasphemy, Shas'elMont'au, I know, but I've own and play both armies.

- - - - - - - - -
If WWP sounds bad, then give each raider a FF and NS *and* aethersails, and deploy on the very edge. Only the Railheads will have range. The Missile Pods will be short that first round. Your turn, zoom up and hope to survive enough pounding to close in h2h.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr.Pirate wrote: 1 Archon
5 incubi

Good for WWP

Mr.Pirate wrote: 3 raiders

Detailed as above if not using WWPs. For WWPs, FF and a disintegrator.

Mr.Pirate wrote: 20 kabilites

6, 7 & 7, for the raiders, a blaster in each.

Mr.Pirate wrote: 10 wychs

Two crews of 5. This is more than enough to handle *any* tau crew. 8 girls are too likely to wipe the enemy and get left open for counter shooting. HekAgonizer, of course. Haywires as mentioned above.

Mr.Pirate wrote: 3 reavers

Meh. Heat LAnce.

Mr.Pirate wrote: 1 voidraven

I've no input.

Mr.Pirate wrote: 1 venom

Four Trublasters.

I'll let you figure the points.


Without the venoms and ravs, it's gonna be tough. Heck, if your opponent is that good, it gonna be tough *with* 4 venoms, 3 ravs, 3 Trublasters crews and any girls you can fit in.

Brothererekose wrote:I disagree. Odds are decent that 4 lances will hit and wound, Mathahammer says 3. And you've only two drones per crew to absorb the STR8 ID fun. Trublasters ain't too shabby for DE when hunting XV8s.

Factor in not wounding (!) and cover (JSJ), and maybe one wound leaks through. Pray there are only two Drones in the squad. You're really better off shooting a Hammerhead or some other vehicle, because those Trueblasters are beyond ed come next turn.

Brothererekose wrote:You're out gunned in models. With venoms and Ravs, DE out gun tau. Blasphemy, Shas'elMont'au, I know, but I've own and play both armies.

Trust me, we're used to it.

Shas'elMont'au wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:I disagree. Odds are decent that 4 lances will hit and wound, Mathahammer says 3. And you've only two drones per crew to absorb the STR8 ID fun. Trublasters ain't too shabby for DE when hunting XV8s.

Factor in not wounding (!) and cover (JSJ), and maybe one wound leaks through. Pray there are only two Drones in the squad. You're really better off shooting a Hammerhead or some other vehicle, because those Trueblasters are beyond ed come next turn.

Like Fire Dragons, pretty much. That's a given.

Okay, lessee some Mathhammer here.

Shooting at a 3 Crisis Suit unit, with two drones, GDs or SDs, don't matter. 4 trublasters, BS4, ~ 3.5 hits. Let's triple the units involved, to get even numbers. 12 shots, of which 8 will hit. Out of those 8, ~6+ will wound. With Cover, and only 2 Drones, in the unit, that's 3 dead models, two drones and a suit.

Morale Check. If failed without Bonding, off the board they go.

Without Cover, that's 2 Shield Drones taking 3 wounds ... and 3 dead suits. Unless you give 'em Shield Gens?

'Course, it ain't 3 units shooting 12 blasters, it might only be 4 Trueborn. Still, I like the odds. 3.5 will hit. All should wound. With Cover, that's <2 dead models, prolly a Morale Check. And being a good DE player, there will be more fire power coming in.

No Cover? 2 Drones might live, but a suit dies. Maybe 2.

Shas'elMont'au wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:You're out gunned in models. With venoms and Ravs, DE out gun tau. Blasphemy, Shas'elMont'au, I know, but I've own and play both armies.

Trust me, we're used to it.

Soon. Soon the anime army player will be laughing and drinking in the sweet tears of GK players and their cries of "Broken!" Soon, we will revel in statements like, "I have 9 railguns," and more tears will flow.

Brothererekose wrote:
Okay, lessee some Mathhammer here.

Shooting at a 3 Crisis Suit unit, with two drones, GDs or SDs, don't matter. 4 trublasters, BS4, ~ 3.5 hits. Let's triple the units involved, to get even numbers. 12 shots, of which 8 will hit. Out of those 8, ~6+ will wound. With Cover, and only 2 Drones, in the unit, that's 3 dead models, two drones and a suit.

Morale Check. If failed without Bonding, off the board they go.

Without Cover, that's 2 Shield Drones taking 3 wounds ... and 3 dead suits. Unless you give 'em Shield Gens?

'Course, it ain't 3 units shooting 12 blasters, it might only be 4 Trueborn. Still, I like the odds. 3.5 will hit. All should wound. With Cover, that's <2 dead models, prolly a Morale Check. And being a good DE player, there will be more fire power coming in.

No Cover? 2 Drones might live, but a suit dies. Maybe 2.

Well... 4 shots, BS4, is 2.66 hits. 2.66 hits, at Str8 vs. T4, is 2.22 wounds. So, you have a ~1/5 chance of killing a suit, much less if those suits are in cover, or (Emperor help you) those suits have more than 2 Drones. Or if those 2 drones are Shield Drones.

Yeah, I'd take those chances, especially because it would allow me to destroy the offending Trublaster squad next turn. 2 Drones, maybe an XV8, in exchange for a Venom and a few Trublasters? Heck, saves me worrying about my Hammerheads.

And would you seriously commit that much of your army into killing 1 squad of XV8s? 'cause most armies worth their salt have 3, IMO.

All of your math hammering is being wrongly applied; that's not how DE play. What you have to consider is 60+ Splinter shots and 20+ Lance shots on one flank of your force @ 1500. At that rate, you can expect at least 31 wounds to leak through where 10-15 models will die (assuming cover and 3+ saves). Tau cannot sustain that level of casualty loss with assault units pouring in for 3 turns even with a 20% attrition rate loss on the DE side.

Now if Tau had a decent counter charge unit like Thunderwolf Calvary, Beastmasters, Blobs with power weapons, Furiouso dreadnoughts, etc, they would have a fighting chance. The problem is a strong mid-range shooting army with a decent assault unit that can act as a line breaker by turn 2 or 3 will table a Tau army.

Ashenshugar wrote:All of your math hammering is being wrongly applied; that's not how DE play. What you have to consider is 60+ Splinter shots and 20+ Lance shots on one flank of your force @ 1500. At that rate, you can expect at least 31 wounds to leak through where 10-15 models will die (assuming cover and 3+ saves). Tau cannot sustain that level of casualty loss with assault units pouring in for 3 turns even with a 20% attrition rate loss on the DE side.

So wait- the entire force is somehow crashing into one flank of the Tau army, whilst having lost no Darklight/Splinter shooting units whatsoever during the initial charge?!? The Tau player would need to be pretty thick for that to happen. Against Deathrains, Fireknives, and Hammerheads? And "assault units pouring in for three turns" is really just two squads. I think you're exaggerating something here. I can essentially guarantee that at least two venoms will have gone down, and their occupants annihilated, turn one. At which point you will have gotten to shoot a few splinter cannons at... oh wait, the vehicles they can't even harm. (JSJ!) And Disruptor Pods pretty much prevent Ravagers from easily killing Tau vehicles- 3 shots, (while stationary) 2 hits, <1 Penetrating hit, then 4+ cover save...

Ashenshugar wrote:Now if Tau had a decent counter charge unit like Thunderwolf Calvary, Beastmasters, Blobs with power weapons, Furiouso dreadnoughts, etc, they would have a fighting chance. The problem is a strong mid-range shooting army with a decent assault unit that can act as a line breaker by turn 2 or 3 will table a Tau army.

Hey, c'mon, we have Kroot...

Shas'elMont'au wrote:Well... 4 shots, BS4, is 2.66 hits. 2.66 hits, at Str8 vs. T4, is 2.22 wounds.

Okay so far, I think.

Shas'elMont'au wrote:So, you have a ~1/5 chance of killing a suit, much less if those suits are in cover, or (Emperor help you) those suits have more than 2 Drones. Or if those 2 drones are Shield Drones.

This is off. 2.22 wounds isn't a 1 outta 5 chance. It's likely either two saves or three. I figured on Shield Drones.

Shas'elMont'au wrote:Yeah, I'd take those chances, especially because it would allow me to destroy the offending Trublaster squad next turn. 2 Drones, maybe an XV8, in exchange for a Venom and a few Trublasters? Heck, saves me worrying about my Hammerheads.

And would you seriously commit that much of your army into killing 1 squad of XV8s? 'cause most armies worth their salt have 3, IMO.

I won't get into the pissing contest you & Ashenshugar might be starting (or did I start it?).

Anyway. Trublasters are only 108 points. 3 XV8s and frisbees are near 200 (fireknives), so not an accurate comparison. If you add another 3 Trublasters to the math, things even out, huh?


I'll step outta this now. Unless you're in the Los Angeles area and would like to see first hand how my DE would fare against your fishheads (Oop, no, you're in Maine. Crap.)

Cheers.

Brothererekose wrote:

Shas'elMont'au wrote:So, you have a ~1/5 chance of killing a suit, much less if those suits are in cover, or (Emperor help you) those suits have more than 2 Drones. Or if those 2 drones are Shield Drones.

This is off. 2.22 wounds isn't a 1 outta 5 chance. It's likely either two saves or three. I figured on Shield Drones.

Well, 2 wounds on the Drones and a 22% chance of a wound on an XV8. Yes, it's "pure" mathhammer, but we all play our games in a vacuum, right?