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What do you feel was the fate of the Primarch of XVIII legion?

The fluff has been contradictory on this topic. Overall, I feel the weight of evidence is in favour of him escaping the Drop Site Massacre, given that he objected to Papa Smurf splitting the legions in to chapters, and according to the wiki, hid his artifacts about 1000 years after the hersey.

However, the HH books have made this cloudy (much to my personal chagrin), having Vulkan . I certainly hope that isn't the new end to the Vulkan story, as he is a personal favorite, and under represented in the fluff as is.

Hopefully, they'll give us a dedicated Salamanders HH book that delves in to this, but until then, there is only speculation. (And forum polls.)

In my opinion he was blasted to atoms.

2 things:
1. In the canon, Vulkan survived Istvaan 5. He came back, had his disagreements with Guilliman, and left a quest for the Salamanders.
2. HH is a different canon, not a retcon.

so which cannon should be followed for official history/fluff ?

Angron ripped his head off during the drop site massacres. Most of the eye-witnesses were slaughtered by the world eaters, and the few surviving records expunged by the inquisition. It are fact.

sumi808 wrote:so which cannon should be followed for official history/fluff ?

There isn't one.

GreatGunz wrote:Angron ripped his head off during the drop site massacres. Most of the eye-witnesses were slaughtered by the world eaters, and the few surviving records expunged by the inquisition. It are fact.

Source? Or just a funny idea?

I think that logically Vulkan should be dead, but primarchs are never truly dead in GW fluff, so I'd say he escaped and disappeared thereafter.

Well, I may have fudged some of the particulars. It's the moral of the story that's important though.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

GreatGunz wrote:Angron ripped his head off during the drop site massacres. Most of the eye-witnesses were slaughtered by the world eaters, and the few surviving records expunged by the inquisition. It are fact.

Source? Or just a funny idea?

I think that logically Vulkan should be dead, but primarchs are never truly dead in GW fluff, so I'd say he escaped and disappeared thereafter.

I'm pretty sure that Horus, Ferrus and Sanguinius are dead. You can't come back from having no warp presence or head

Vulkan, I think he survived. He was supposed to have been one of the Primarchs that initially rejected the splitting of the Legions although I can't find the source of this, it's supposed to be in the Fists IA article but can't see it there.

As said before, Black Library doesn't necessarily (try to) comply with "official" GW fluff. They have creative licence to do things differently if they like, approach "the setting" from their own angle, and they do so regularly.

And even if they "involuntarily" write something against "canon", they produce stuff with far too great volume with far too many authors, freelance editors, very little permanent staff (that is actually into writing) and in too little time to truly check ever little titbit against what is already out there. If objections are raised, they more likely just ret-con their own ret-con in a later book or story.

IIRC that's from the BT codex.

..But of course his objection could, perhaps, have been in the form of his writings prior to any disappearance.

Considering how busy they were, the Primarchs did seem to spend a lot of time writing, prophesying and the like. Guess they had to do something during those long warp journeys eh ?

At the recent BL Library :Live they said they will be/are going to deal with what happened to Vulkan.....

I'd say he survived Isstvan and left post-heresy.
My reasoning: According to the Salamanders, Vulkan left behind various prophecies to cover things in the Salamander's future. He also created a galactic scavenger hunt by hiding a bunch of his gadgets and I believe he also left some clues behind for them to follow. Unless he did all this while the Great Crusade was going on (possible, but difficult to do undetected, and what would have been his motivation to do so?) then these are all things he would have had to do post-Isstvan.

Plus, there's no way he got offed by some artillery fired by a bunch of mooks. Primarchs are bulletproof (literally seen in Deliverance Lost) and should only be killable by proper noun Big Bads. Other Primarchs, above average Greater Daemons, Chaos Gods, The Emperor, maybe something like a Imperator Titan or by having the planet they're on dumped into the sun.

Yeah, I know, Dorn. That bit of fluff needs to change.

Couldn't it have been the big guns that the Lion gave to Perturabo though?

Those were some Big guns

Very big guns (weren't they basically capital ship weapons on giant track beds?), and they have two non-mook characters behind their use. Plus bonus tragic grimdark points for one of them being a loyalist. Yeah, if that had been the case, that would make for an acceptable death. Though it would be an almost completely off-camera death, so that bites.

A couple problems though. One of the guns was fired once in that DA book and the shockwave and thermal blast was strong enough to toss people around for at least a few km (hard to tell from the book, but they were firing at the spaceport in the distance), and in the description of Vulkan and the artillery barrage there is no indication of that much carnage from the weaponry.
Other issue is that the guns were designed to crack fortresses, and Perturabo's plan would have been to use them on Terra. Risking their loss by using them against targets where they would be such overkill is not particularly likely.

daveNYC wrote:Very big guns (weren't they basically capital ship weapons on giant track beds?), and they have two non-mook characters behind their use. Plus bonus tragic grimdark points for one of them being a loyalist. Yeah, if that had been the case, that would make for an acceptable death. Though it would be an almost completely off-camera death, so that bites.

A couple problems though. One of the guns was fired once in that DA book and the shockwave and thermal blast was strong enough to toss people around for at least a few km (hard to tell from the book, but they were firing at the spaceport in the distance), and in the description of Vulkan and the artillery barrage there is no indication of that much carnage from the weaponry.
Other issue is that the guns were designed to crack fortresses, and Perturabo's plan would have been to use them on Terra. Risking their loss by using them against targets where they would be such overkill is not particularly likely.

Did Perturabo and the Iron Warriors particularly care about much at this time?

daveNYC wrote:Very big guns (weren't they basically capital ship weapons on giant track beds?), and they have two non-mook characters behind their use. Plus bonus tragic grimdark points for one of them being a loyalist. Yeah, if that had been the case, that would make for an acceptable death. Though it would be an almost completely off-camera death, so that bites.

A couple problems though. One of the guns was fired once in that DA book and the shockwave and thermal blast was strong enough to toss people around for at least a few km (hard to tell from the book, but they were firing at the spaceport in the distance), and in the description of Vulkan and the artillery barrage there is no indication of that much carnage from the weaponry.
Other issue is that the guns were designed to crack fortresses, and Perturabo's plan would have been to use them on Terra. Risking their loss by using them against targets where they would be such overkill is not particularly likely.

1. I think Vulkan survives Istvaan.
2. I agree with the above. Those "big" guns were meant for the siege of Terra, I don't think Perturabo deployed them on Istvaan.

OverwatchCNC wrote:
2. I agree with the above. Those "big" guns were meant for the siege of Terra, I don't think Perturabo deployed them on Istvaan.

Fair do's

Will check the First Heretic and Promethean Son to be sure, maybe Fulgrim?

They were bitter and cynical, but they were also professionals. It's not likely that they'd risk a valuable irreplaceable resource in a battle for which it isn't well suited. Especially since Perturabo really wants to crack the Emperor's fortress to show up Dorn.

daveNYC wrote:They were bitter and cynical, but they were also professionals. It's not likely that they'd risk a valuable irreplaceable resource in a battle for which it isn't well suited. Especially since Perturabo really wants to crack the Emperor's fortress to show up Dorn.

Shooting into your allies is professional?

Anyway, we digress.

He's with Leman Russ, pulling Russ' santa sleigh across the universe chasing the Tyranids. He and Leman Russ are the reason why the Tyranids are running away into the Milky Way galaxy.

One would imagine that if he had survived Isstvan V, the Emperor would have told Garro to fetch him while getting Loken.

wait I thought loken died in galaxy of flames ? Wasnt he with that emperors children dude when horus nuked them on istavaan 3 ?

my recall may be wrong though - so please correct me if ive made a mistake

Abaddon beat him down, then a building fell on him, then a titan stepped on him. So, he's provisionally dead. This being 40k though, he could come back. In which case the mighty warriors of chaos will simply have to kill him again. Such is life.

yeah I think your assessment is right - cause I was just reading the grey knights background on lexicanum and its said that garro rescues him and loken becomes one of the founders of the grey knights

I hate how they got GW and Black library writing fluff parallel and opposing

They got to sort their Please don't try and bypass the swear filter, thanks.

GreatGunz wrote:Abaddon beat him down, then a building fell on him, then a titan stepped on him. So, he's provisionally dead. .

Alas. Some imperials just won't stay dead. Any word on how he survived? Or how he got off of Istvaan?

I see.

Durza wrote:One would imagine that if he had survived Isstvan V, the Emperor would have told Garro to fetch him while getting Loken.

One would imagine, the Emperor didn't send anyone to fetch anything after he sent Russ and we know how that worked...
Plus it was Malcador who got him the task to assemble a group.
Like Red said, we will have to wait for the story to advance, because actually there are only hints.

GreatGunz wrote:Alas. Some imperials just won't stay dead. Any word on how he survived? Or how he got off of Istvaan?

Good that the traitors are dead or pretty much irrelevant in M41.
Again, untold story is untold.

I suggest picking up the Garro audiobooks by the way gg, they are excellent.

And yes, I was very pleased to hear about Loken.