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Now, I am by no means saying that this model is not superbly painted. And I am not saying that I could paint anywhere near the standard it is painted at. What I am probably saying is "What are the photographs not showing us for this model?" The model that won the UK 2011 Slayer Sword seems to be unremarkable when compared to the other Gold winning models at Games Day UK. What is it about this model that I'm just not seeing? Was the blending just mindblowingly amazing and the photos don't do it justice? Please, no hate. I'm just genuinely curious!




For my money, this model that was painted by the same painter, and won gold in 40k single miniature is better painted:

Better picture found here

Does look unremarkable from the photos. Maybe it looks very different in real life

Yeah, not converted, just straight out of the box. Not saying that it has to be converted to win, but it just seems a bit naff compared with the other entries. Really don't understand why this model was so popular with Golden Demon.

I've been wondering this ever since I heard it won.

What a joke. Seriously, there MUST be something the camera isn't showing.

What makes me even more annoyed is the fact the painter even states in one of the latest WD's that he only took a few days to paint it.
Jammy git ¬_¬

Other than the base, id assume it was just an eavy metal model actually.

FIFA dont run the GD now do they?

I've never read up on the judging methods or if that information is even available, but I have a feeling that sometimes winners are judged by how true they hold to the style and flavor of the GW universe. This can mean that a piece that's been totally scratchbuilt and luxuriously painted to an insane skill level may be passed over for something a little more traditional that showcases some aspect of GW's franchises in a new, accessible and artistic way.

Basically, since GW runs the competition, they can judge it any way they want. And it might not be in the best interest of the contest and company image if the awards become a constant battle of insane painters one-upping each other until there are only a few contestants in the world that even stand a chance of winning.

Edit: going to emphasize the word "accessible" up there because this is an important point. There are ridiculously good artists and builders out there, people with talent to produce mind-bogglingly detailed pieces from spare parts and putty. But you rarely see that kind of stuff featured on GW's website or magazines, because it isn't necessarily what a company that sells retail products to kids wants to showcase at every opportunity. When you're selling a product like models and miniatures, you want the average joe consumer to look at the promo materials and say "Hey, I could do that!" This sells more paints, more figures and pulls people from different skill levels into the hobby. Sucks for the passionate hobbyist, but like I said, it's their company.

Terraformer wrote: And it might not be in the best interest of the contest and company image if the awards become a constant battle of insane painters one-upping each other until there are only a few contestants in the world that even stand a chance of winning.

When it comes to the slayer sword, thats how i think it should be to be honest. The best of the best.

Really boring looking. There's nothing remarkable about it. No freehand to speak of, no conversions that are actually important... I don't know.

There was another controversial winner at the 2009 Baltimore Games Day. The winning entry is well painted. It is painted to a standard that is higher than most people. The conversion work is good. But again I just can't see why it won. But I am guessing that the camera doesn't do it justice again.

This is the winning entry:

Interesting points.

This also makes me consider that maybe, just MAYBE, GW pick winners based on what they want people to perceive.

This is a bog-standard and out-of-the-box Necromancer that, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't released that long ago.
Now, I'm not trying to start anything by saying this but...

What if the judges chose this model because of it's current relevance?
Storm of Magic was one of GW's latest big releases and this guy has been popping up in WD for months now.

Smells fishy to me.

Regardless, I personally believe that the judging should be done by a 3rd party and not by GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

InyokaMadoda wrote:There was another controversial winner at the 2009 Baltimore Games Day. The winning entry is well painted. It is painted to a standard that is higher than most people. The conversion work is good. But again I just can't see why it won. But I am guessing that the camera doesn't do it justice again.

This is the winning entry:

Now there, I have to disagree.
Looks like a lot of work went into that. It has a hell of a lot of character imo.
That's at least 100 times more deserving of the Sword than that Necromancer

I do agree that it should be about painting skill and not conversions, and so there should be absolutely no reason as to why a non-converted model shouldn't win. Conversions just often help to make a model stand out. But when you are talking about a painting contest, the BEST painted model should win. It's that simple to me. Now GW could justifiably say that model X doesn't fit in with our 'vision' of our IP so it can't win (There was some controversy in the past about a model that ended up being banned due to religious iconography, despite being amazingly well painted), but since all of the models that they judge to win golden demons must fit in with their IP, why did the necromancer win over the slaanesh model?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:Now there, I have to disagree.
Looks like a lot of work went into that. It has a hell of a lot of character imo.
That's at least 100 times more deserving of the Sword than that Necromancer

Character? Yes!
Lot's of work? Yes!
Best painted figures in the competition? Er..... really? It's a painting competition by GW's own reckoning, not a converting competition.

InyokaMadoda wrote:Character? Yes!
Lot's of work? Yes!
Best painted figures in the competition? Er..... really? It's a painting competition by GW's own reckoning, not a converting competition.

Well, fair point and I guess I haven't seen the other entires but still...
Is it always the same board of judges for every competition in every country by the way?

I read in a recent WD that Jervis Johnson spends a lot of time at GD's, and in one of the pictures, he was wearing a shirt with a German flag so...

No, I don't think it's the same board of judges even in the same country each year, let alone different countries. So you can allow for personal taste. But somehow that doesn't even cut it for me in these two cases. Surely, even if you don't like a particular model yourself, you should still be able to see WHY something won?

InyokaMadoda wrote:No, I don't think it's the same board of judges even in the same country each year, let alone different countries. So you can allow for personal taste. But somehow that doesn't even cut it for me in these two cases. Surely, even if you don't like a particular model yourself, you should still be able to see WHY something won?

My thinking exactly.
In that case, there must be certain judges that are biased towards certain aspects such as how a model is converted and painted.
Some judges might love sub-par painted (of course, sub-par in a competition like GD is still kick ass!) but might be superbly converted.
Some judges might be more inclined to lean their votes towards a vanilla model with a standard scheme (like the Necromancer).

Maybe they should have categories for converted and none-converted?
Traditional and UN-traditional?

I guess at that point it's like, what's the point?

There is no justifying the judging, or questioning it. I missed out on the slayer against this unit:



The winner announced from stage that he'd painted them in a day. My first case of nerdrage ever. "Memmmmmmrories..." [/Ren voice]

I've read various things over the years about Golden Demon contests being won by people who are at least acquainted with the judges, or that there's a certain 'in crowd' that tend to be looked upon more favourably.

Then there are other things, like it never hurts to enter a recently released figure over one older and less popular.

Ultimately you are dealing with judges who are human. I've judged small modelling competitions, nothing qualifies me to do that beyond attending the show with a club display stand. You don't get professional model show judges and a lot of it does come down to things of personal preference however much you try to be even handed.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:There is no justifying the judging, or questioning it. I missed out on the slayer against this unit:



The winner announced from stage that he'd painted them in a day. My first case of nerdrage ever. "Memmmmmmrories..." [/Ren voice]

When was that and where? Could you post a picture of your entry. It's hard to tell from the photo, but the painting on those minis looks to be bland at best. Nice use of foliage, but you must have been livid!

Howard A Treesong wrote:I've read various things over the years about Golden Demon contests being won by people who are at least acquainted with the judges, or that there's a certain 'in crowd' that tend to be looked upon more favourably.

Then there are other things, like it never hurts to enter a recently released figure over one older and less popular.

Ultimately you are dealing with judges who are human. I've judged small modelling competitions, nothing qualifies me to do that beyond attending the show with a club display stand. You don't get professional model show judges and a lot of it does come down to things of personal preference however much you try to be even handed.

I can see that bias is always a hard thing to eliminate and all judges will have their favourite styles, methods, models, painters, etc. That makes sense to me. But I still can't find any reason that the necromancer beat the slaanesh model!

Those treemen are from quite a few years ago, I think. I don't have a perfect memory of GD winners.

In general the standard in the last 10 years is much higher than the decade before that. It's worth looking at older winners to see the change in the qualities of painting.

I find it hard to believe any model painted in such a short time would truly be deserving of the slayer sword. Maybe the other categories, but the slayer sword should be top 10 cmon standard for me.

InyokaMadoda wrote:What is it about this model that I'm just not seeing?

The model's sales figure , if you get what i mean

LunaHound wrote:

InyokaMadoda wrote:What is it about this model that I'm just not seeing?

The model's sales figure , if you get what i mean

Ah, Luna, every word you say is like silk upon mine ears.

...It is possible -.-

LunaHound wrote:...It is possible -.-

I wasn't being sarcastic. xD
More often than not, you post exactly what I'm thinking.

I await every post you make with bated breath, because I know it'll touch me in ways I thought not possible.

Maybe it's the picture of that fluffy lil wolf-like-thing.

Who knows.

Should we all leave you two alone for a bit?

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:

LunaHound wrote:...It is possible -.-

I wasn't being sarcastic. xD
More often than not, you post exactly what I'm thinking.

I await every post you make with bated breath, because I know it'll touch me in ways I thought not possible.

Maybe it's the picture of that fluffy lil wolf-like-thing.

Who knows.

umm, can't post what I am thinking or I will be banned =o] But I agree, there is a 'old boys network' and they have a leg up even before the judging starts. I haven't seen the other models so I can't really comment, but being a new model and wanting to show it off makes sense to me. G dub is so transparent.

InyokaMadoda wrote:
When was that and where? Could you post a picture of your entry. It's hard to tell from the photo, but the painting on those minis looks to be bland at best. Nice use of foliage, but you must have been livid!
.

Baltimore '96.

Mine entry:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Baltimore '96.

Mine entry:

Wow, I remember seeing this chaos predator. I also remember thinking "that looks a lot nicer than the guys with the lichen hair..."

Thanks, Terraformer. 16 years of pain and frustration... gone!

lol

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Thanks, Terraformer. 16 years of pain and frustration... gone!

lol

Yes! Vindication r00lz!

That is the right word, right?

... *Shrugs*

Nice Chaos Predator. And considering where painting was in 96 - very nicely painted. Please don't take that as a back-handed compliment. Painting styles have changed and so to judge it by modern standards and ideas is unfair. I would have given you the Slayer Sword over the lichen chaps!

As for the necromancer being given the top spot to boost sales....The cynic in me wants to believe that, but I don't think that's the reason it won. I hope I'm not just being naive, but I can only imagine that the blending is really amazing and it is the fault of the camera not showing it.