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InyokaMadoda wrote:Nice Chaos Predator. And considering where painting was in 96 - very nicely painted. Please don't take that as a back-handed compliment. Painting styles have changed and so to judge it by modern standards and ideas is unfair. I would have given you the Slayer Sword over the lichen chaps!

As for the necromancer being given the top spot to boost sales....The cynic in me wants to believe that, but I don't think that's the reason it won. I hope I'm not just being naive, but I can only imagine that the blending is really amazing and it is the fault of the camera not showing it.

"If you wanna play blind man, than you can go walk with the shepard but my eyes are wide open"

It's fairly obvious even when the camera work isn't at it's best when a model is painted superbly. These models I just don't see it.

The necromancer may have gotten it because GW were so happy to see a finecast model which hasn't been horrifically miscast

Plastic :'P

LunaHound wrote:Plastic :'P

Really? *does not play WHFB and assumed it was FC*

Then I don't know why it won - as was mentioned the other mini painted by the same guy looks a lot better.

LunaHound wrote:Plastic :'P

SEE?

My God. Just one word and a face... Lifechanging stuff, I swear.

I am not worthy.

EDIT: Although, that'd odd...

It's not FC but plastic. Huh.
That seems strange to me. IMO those single plastics like the Necromancer and the Cairn Wraith are superb.
They should do all of their characters in plastic instead of FC.

Now there's a can of worms.

White balance + Depth of field of the photograph probably obscures true colour temperature and some details that you'd not see when you're actually picking up the model and looking at it, plus the medium on which it's painted (white dwarf magazine) probably doesn't do it justice either, nor would it be if it was a photograph on the screen. I'd imagine it's somethin you'd need to see for yourself to be 100% sure that it's deserving or not (in your own opinion)

Even if the painting is perfect, blending is perfect, its still boring to look at. No creativity or originality whats so ever in it.

Well, it is a custom base, with lots of little details crammed onto a 20mm base without it being cluttered.

Slightly OT, but I remember that Pred from way back when. I don't remember what publication I saw it in but it actually remains inspirational today. Nice work stands the test of time.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Well, it is a custom base, with lots of little details crammed onto a 20mm base without it being cluttered.

If that's not cluttered, I don't know what is.

Clearly the base fell into the bits box and became an exquisite example of outsider art.
The dark tones, the pale flesh and the skulls; all a metaphor for the struggle of life and death, the grass on the base a statement of the futility of the struggle of life in the WFHB world as it fights for equality with death (represented by the skull). The necromancer seemingly having control (the skull in his hand) over both life and death, yet ultimately ruled by both and in control of none as shown by the skulls hanging from the staff; a reminder there is no escape of the certainty of death.

Enough gak for now.

Knights-Abhorrent wrote:

LunaHound wrote:...It is possible -.-

I wasn't being sarcastic. xD
More often than not, you post exactly what I'm thinking.

Also this, saves me time sometimes.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:There is no justifying the judging, or questioning it. I missed out on the slayer against this unit:



The winner announced from stage that he'd painted them in a day. My first case of nerdrage ever. "Memmmmmmrories..." [/Ren voice]

Those look pretty cool to me, but I can't really see the paint job all that well, so I don't know for sure.

I'm amazed nobody has mentioned yet it is a contest.
The necromancer was competing against other models which the judges deemed less deserving of the Slayer Sword.

Let's have a look at the other constestants and maybe this discussion will go somewhere. Bashing gets old, especially when it's not relevant. (What ? Decisions are subjective ? Judges are human ? No fething way.)

Right now just with the winner's picture, obviously at a glance it doesn't stand out. The simplest possibility I can think of is that its merit is sheer technical excellence on the painting job, to which the picture can't truly make justice. I don't have the level to judge, and odds are you don't either if you need flashy colour schemes or conversion to evaluate the quality of a model.

Hyd wrote:I'm amazed nobody has mentioned yet it is a contest.
The necromancer was competing against other models which the judges deemed less deserving of the Slayer Sword.

Let's have a look at the other constestants and maybe this discussion will go somewhere. Bashing gets old, especially when it's not relevant. (What ? Decisions are subjective ? Judges are human ? No fething way.)

Right now just with the winner's picture, obviously at a glance it doesn't stand out. The simplest possibility I can think of is that its merit is sheer technical excellence on the painting job, to which the picture can't truly make justice. I don't have the level to judge, and odds are you don't either if you need flashy colour schemes or conversion to evaluate the quality of a model.

You're making quite a few assumptions there, buddy.

My earlier post was based on the fact I had seen other models from the contest.
Who said anything about flashy colour schemes or having a better eye for judgment?

There's a bit of bashing going on here, but you're making an assumption that nobody has seen the other models in the competition. OH BUT WAIT.
There's one posted on the first page, albeit painted by the same guy, but that only makes the point that it was better than the other.

all that's going on here is a discussion about opinion. Opinion is what the judges seemingly base their votes on.
Also, we've covered several times that picture most likely doesn't do it justice and several pros and cons as to why it most likely one have been debated.
Now, I'm all for hearing your opinion but maybe you could do it without so many unfounded assumptions?

Theres an awful lot of bashing going on here to be fair. Also lots lots of assumptions on that side of the fence too.

It seems more likely that its technical excellence not showing well on camera than a great GW conspiracy to advertise a single model. What would be the point? If they wanted to move figures, a more expensive model or unit would have won.

It does look like a disappointing model and theres certainly been better winners in the past, but it must have more merit in person than on here compared to other entries.

Skippy wrote:Theres an awful lot of bashing going on here to be fair. Also lots lots of assumptions on that side of the fence too.

It seems more likely that its technical excellence not showing well on camera than a great GW conspiracy to advertise a single model. What would be the point? If they wanted to move figures, a more expensive model or unit would have won.

It does look like a disappointing model and theres certainly been better winners in the past, but it must have more merit in person than on here compared to other entries.

This. I strongly expect that the quality of the blending and detail isn't showing on camera. Bear in mind also that the quality of the entrants varies from year to year, and the judges vary as well. Paint judging does have a strong element of subjectivity, and the judges are human, and as such their judgments aren't always going to agree with those of any given spectator to the competition.

BTW, Slave to Dorkness- that Pred still looks great. For my money those Dryads look excellent as well, but not being able to see the details close up, I can't honestly say that I can legitimately judge which is better.

Skippy wrote:
It seems more likely that its technical excellence not showing well on camera than a great GW conspiracy to advertise a single model. What would be the point? If they wanted to move figures, a more expensive model or unit would have won..

The reason it's eyebrow raising to those of us who follow the competitions is that it's the UK Golden Deamons, we expect some pretty fantastic stuff to come out of there. It's a bit of a surprise to see relatively unremarkable model win the grand prize. But I don't think there's any kind of overt conspiracy. Conspiracy implies that there are people out there actively cheating the system in some way. Well you can't cheat the system if you *are* the system. It's more of an example of the attitude of the company responsible for the contest. It's an attitude of leaning towards, and encouraging imagery that promotes accessibility to the hobby while showcasing their own products and storylines.

Certainly the majority of Slayer Swords have been won and continue to be won by "inaccessible" models.

I've lost track; how many folks in the thread were able to see the model in person and can give an opinion on whether the photos let it down significantly?

i didn't pay much attention to it when i was there. it certainly didn't catch my eye like some of the others did. that being said the guy that won the slayer sword did win seven awards that year, 4 golds, 2 bronze, and the sword. needless to say we got fairly bored of hearing his name when listening to he winners

Any photos of the other entries for comparison? It's hard to decide how good his entry is when the only comparison is his other entry.

Look at the silver medal model for this golden demon. It is just a model out of the box that's not painted to an incredible standard.

http://demonwinner.free.fr/australia/2011Sydney/golden_demon_winner.php?categorie=4

Helps if you just link the picture instead.



The base model.

I can do that @_@

and its 2011? omg

I may look into entering it this year too.

I think if you zoom in on the face of the necromancer it is extremely detailed.

manoknok wrote:I think if you zoom in on the face of the necromancer it is extremely detailed.

This could be why the model won. I know that a lot of these winners lool way better in person. I went to the GD Baltimore in 2008. I was blown away by all the entries. The slayer sword and golden demon winners looked way better in person than these crappy internet pictures.

Hello,
I think I agree with a few here who see the bias toward models that are newer and "fresh". They seem to give the awards to the most current sets of models out there lately, I believe to sell more of them.

Regards,
Carl

Having discussed similar topics to a local manager who used to help judge Golden Daemons, it's not too surprising.

From what I recall, he said they don't just sit there and pick out the model that necessarily looks "the best". Too many people go and see the model that pops out the most and ignorantly exclaim it's the best and most deserving. Instead, they go back and forth between the models they see as contending and go over every aspect of their modeling/paint job.

It's not just how many techniques are used, or how well they are done, but both. Sure some other models might have so extensive freehand that looks great... but what else? It's not so much about what literally looks the best, but how well the painting actually is, since there is, in fact, a difference.

I've seen him do the same methods of going over models in painting contests here so I would say that is likely how they tend to go over things. Whether or not the model in discussion was worthy, I cannot say. But hopefully that little insight on how judging apparently works will be of some help.

Edit: I also remember reading on either the GW site or in a WD that the unit posted that won the Slayer Sword was largely in part to its consistency.

Buttlerthepug wrote:Having discussed similar topics to a local manager who used to help judge Golden Daemons, it's not too surprising.

From what I recall, he said they don't just sit there and pick out the model that necessarily looks "the best". Too many people go and see the model that pops out the most and ignorantly exclaim it's the best and most deserving. Instead, they go back and forth between the models they see as contending and go over every aspect of their modeling/paint job.

It's not just how many techniques are used, or how well they are done, but both. Sure some other models might have so extensive freehand that looks great... but what else? It's not so much about what literally looks the best, but how well the painting actually is, since there is, in fact, a difference.

I've seen him do the same methods of going over models in painting contests here so I would say that is likely how they tend to go over things. Whether or not the model in discussion was worthy, I cannot say. But hopefully that little insight on how judging apparently works will be of some help.

Edit: I also remember reading on either the GW site or in a WD that the unit posted that won the Slayer Sword was largely in part to its consistency.

That's a really useful way of looking at it actually. When I origninally posted, in no way did I suggest that it is not worthy of winning the slayer sword - I just couldn't see the reason behind it from the photograph. It makes sense that the 'best painted' miniature is not necessarily the flashiest, but the one that has the most appropriate paint job to the miniature. Which can of course mean flashy if it's appropriate. For example, an ork boy painted carrying an ork banner that was a perfect picture of a ladies face should not win even if the painting of the banner is 'perfect' as the chosen imagery is not appropriate for the subject (and yes I'm ignoring the whole looting thing here for simplicities sake), or similarly a tyranid warrior where every armour plate is painted in freehand imagery of people should not win. Just because the painting is technically brilliant it isn't appropriate. That said, the silver award for the inquisitive grots is quite surprising. It does make the whole idea of entering the competitions a lot more accessible though!