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I run a hybrid Eldar army that is half foot half mech.

Of course I have Eldrad/avatar, fire dragons, some cc unit, dire avengers, and bikes. There usually 2-3 wave serpents. Lastly I run 2 prisms and scatter walkers.

LAtely i switched to 2 prisms and a night spinner.

The spinner doesn't have as much killings power, but it provides support in a different way. First its indirect fire for campers. Also its good in new cron night fight. I surprisingly found its ability to immobilize vehicles and parking lots very helpful. Lastly its anoher tank that can be used to contest in end game. I also like that it doesn't need to be baby sat with guide like walkers. It's terrain effects are just a plus.


Any opinions? Has any one tried them in competitive tournament play?

Well, I used it at several occasions - just pickup games, no RTTs. Frankly, I'm rather disappointed. No killing power. They can pin a unit but that's only the case when your opponent rolls bad. I'd stay away from Night Spinners.

I have found them to be random. Some games its random bad, some random good.
Example, sometimes you get a nice hit with some nice rends and it works well. You also get a vehicle to immobilize itself at a key moment. Very luck dependent results, but it can do very good things with the right luck.

On the bad side, sometimes it just doesn't do enough and nothing is effected by the movement. Such is the whims of luck.

I like the chaos it causes on the opponents plans though, and I use one in every list.

You know I would disagree with the last two posters in my experience spinners have done great. I like them for two reasons first off entangling units in difficult and dangerous terrain cannot be underestimated it can really screw up units setting up for assaults and if it happens to catch a few vehicles who are parked together even better. That being said it should be a fast attack slot. Additionally night spinner and doom w ork together very well. Target hard to hu rt models like termies or fnp ba and refill everything that isn't a rend. I'm all for it

It really depends; if you use boards which feature lots of area terrain, then their uses are diminished since enemies are moving through difficult terrain anyway. Simiarly against gunlines, where units don't tend to move at all.

There's also the fact that relying on dangerous terrain is a terrible way of trying to kill models; a 1/6 chance that a model will die is not reliable, similarly so when trying to immobilise vehicles.

Rending is easier to rely on due to Doom, but it's still only 1/6.

S6 is decent, as is the fact it's a large blast, twin-linked as standard, and barrage, but it comes down to what you want to do with it; if you're facing fast armies then it could be good to slow them down, and against units in cover, they can be just as good as Prisms due to the large blast, and the unit getting a save regardless (due to AP- of the spinner, and cover saves against the prism, provided it ignored their armour to start with).

Try and see is what i'd say.

Ive had good luck with the spinner at local tourneys. Its not a guaranteed knock out, but has proven really worthwhile when it does.
This is a writeup I made on the nightspinner a little while ago. If you have already read this, please just skip the rest of this comment.


Overall Usage
The nightspinner is aking to a blue card in 'Magic: The Gathering". It's there to cause annoyances and hindrances to your opponents plans. While it can kill, its main goal is to slow down or immobilize enemy forces.

The nightspinner does not do one thing so well it makes it an auto-take. Instead it does a number of small things so well that I suggest it as auto-take for today's mech'dar lists. This counts even moreso with scarab farms and draigowing growing in popularity.


Accurate Indirect Fire
The nightspinner comes base as twin-linked. This means that there is a 55% of you getting a HIT on the scatter dice, and it has a BS 4 to scatter back on target. When shooting at a large target, such as a squad of scarabs or a land raider, this gives you an estimated 90% of hitting.
(to determine this I wrote a simulator program that would run weapon strikes on targets)

This is an excellent tool to take down scarab farms. The indirect fire means that the scarbs are not getting cover unless they are in area terrain, and the STR 6 instant kills them. You can fire indirectly during night fight, but roll and extra d6 for scatter. As you have a 55% of getting a HIT, that's a perfectly acceptable way to keep the scarabs under control.

The real key here is that the nightspinner cannot be shot back at unless your opponent has indirect fire as well. You can use this tool to your hearts content without having to worry about pesky psy-dreads tearing it apart. Not that its a big deal anyway, as the psy-dreads will be focusing on the dragon's fortuned serpents barreling at them.


Difficult Terrain
Another benefit of the nightspinner is the ability to put a difficult terrain check on whatever is hit by the template. This means that every model that moves after being hit takes non-savable wound on a 1 when they move. This means that the cryptek can die when they move, as you can't just allocate it off. It can also pick off the PK nob, the melta gun in a grey hunter squad, etc...

One common argument is to say 'well, just move one of the models and then you just have to make one test'. Thats true, and that means the unit in question has effectively lost 6" of movement that turn (as they can still run/fleet). This by itself is tremendously useful when your shooting at scarabs or twolves. I would gladly have them lower their movement by over 50%!

You can also use this to slow down draigowing movement. That death star is not quite so effective when its barely moving, and the rest of your army can just move to whereever its needs to be.

In a similar effect, it has a double dip whammy on scarab farms. 2 spinners can keep a scarab farm under control by insta-killing scarabs coming out, and slowing the entire farm down so they can't get far onto the board. And when they try to move, the scarabs take more wounds....

Finally, as its an accurate 5" template, its very feasible to hit 2 vehicles (3 if they are really clustered) in a parking lot. Since each one of those vehicles gets immobilized on a 1, it can be a nice thing to throw on some rhinos/chimeras, etc... Basically by immobilizing the tank, the troops inside will have to get out of it in order to score if they are not sitting on an objective.

If there are no other targets, hit the deathstar of the enemy. 1/6 chance that the LR/stormchicken will become useless for the delivery of DCA/termies. Given that a LC has a 4.66% of destroying that same LR, the 16.66% of immobolization is not all together bad. Its sure as hell not a squad of fire dragons good, but it has an indirect range of 72" Don't forget it rends to, so if your roll a 6 to damage your hitting AV 13-15. (albeit at AP -)


Pinning
Don't forget that its also pinning. When your shooting at targets like draigowing, you have a chance (a small one, but a chance nonetheless) to cause them to be pinned for a turn. When your talking about a 600+ point deathstar unit, its a huge negative blow when it happens.


Rending for Fun and Profit
The final benifit of the nightspinner is that its rending. If you drop the accurate template on 6 MEQ, one of them will rend. Unless they are in area terrain, they will lose at least one person.
This then kicks off the pinning test.


Summary
To paraphrase Alton Brown, I hope that this post gives you a little understanding for the often-overviewed tank known as the nightspinner. Its one of those things that just does not look good on paper until you start playing with them.
Today I don't run fire prisms. I use nightspinners. Any serious mech'dar player does the same IMHO.

Yeah... I fething HATE playing against nightspinners!

The nightspinner does a little more damage against infantry than a fire prism's dispersed beam and since it's normally hiding behind terrain it doesn't really need the expensive defensive vehicle upgrades that a fire prism likes to get, but the prism as almost as good for infantry and reliably better against tanks and monstrous creatures. Take the one you think looks cooler.

Labmouse hit all the major bullet points except one...

Doom + Nightspinner = Lots of dead rended things

BlueDagger wrote:Labmouse hit all the major bullet points except one...

Doom + Nightspinner = Lots of dead rended things

Yepper ive played against spinners a few times and they are pretty neat. They really like immobilizing my land raiders :(

racta wrote:I like the chaos it causes on the opponents plans though, and I use one in every list.

This has to be one of the most comprehensive opinions on the night spinner.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess everything has been covered. I knew a lot about the spinners going into this, I'll just have to try them for flavor now.

Nice, my opinion is valued!

Avatar720, i just want to add that one boltgun shot on a marine has a 1/6 chance to kill another marine. So 1/6 chance to die from dangerous terrain isn't as bad as it sounds.
Apples to oranges, but it does put 1/6 in perspective.

I have always seen the nightspinner as a budget pain in the ass for you opponent. If they ignore it, then it can freely harass whatever it wants. If they commit to going after it, it leaves my serpents and prisms free to do their job. Not bad for 115 points.

Multiple times I have popped a transport and really wanted a nice blast to clean up the leftovers.

I have been using the 2 Prism+Falcon combination, but I think the 2 Prism+Nightspinner is just as valid(and less points)
I think I might get one just to try it out.

They are annoying as hell if you are a horde player (green tide/nids etc)

My wife likes them My Orks ...not so much

racta wrote:Nice, my opinion is valued!

Avatar720, i just want to add that one boltgun shot on a marine has a 1/6 chance to kill another marine. So 1/6 chance to die from dangerous terrain isn't as bad as it sounds.
Apples to oranges, but it does put 1/6 in perspective.

3s to hit and 4s to wound with a 3+ save is 0.111, not 0.167, so unless i've miscalculated, 1 bolter shot from a marine has less chance of killing.

Also, paying 115pts to kill 1 marine in 6 is not good value, so it is as bad as it sounds.

That said, this is just the dangerous terrain aspect.

Never count on the slowing/dangerous terrain as how the Nightspinner does isn't job or you will always be let down. It's job is to be a self sustained death machine. Unlike a Fire Prism it doesn't require a 2nd one to be accurate and it will rarely grant cover unlike a prism.

If a player gets out of their rhino what do they do? Angle the marines away from your prisms. With a Nightspinner, you don't care because the cover is taken from the hole... which is nicely over their head right over their head.

Yes, Prisms are better vs heavy vehicles, however if you haven't seen what a prism has the potential to do to a parkinglot for of AV10 side armor, it's a sight to behold. Yes, the vehicle under the hole is dmged on a 4+, but all the other vehicles not under the hole but under the blast are also dmged on a 6. PLUS each of those vehicles may get immobilized when they try to move.

Personal single shot bests:
- 3 Packs of 30 boyz hit
- 10 man unit of BA FNP marines reduced to 1 after wounds and dangerous terrain
- 2 DE Ravagers wrecked, and 2 more skimmers immobilized
- 5 Chimera hit, 2 immobed, 2 Shaken, 1 Wrecked

BlueDagger wrote:Never count on the slowing/dangerous terrain as how the Nightspinner does isn't job or you will always be let down. It's job is to be a self sustained death machine. Unlike a Fire Prism it doesn't require a 2nd one to be accurate and it will rarely grant cover unlike a prism.

Personal single shot bests:
- 3 Packs of 30 boyz hit
- 10 man unit of BA FNP marines reduced to 1 after wounds and dangerous terrain
- 2 DE Ravagers wrecked, and 2 more skimmers immobilized
- 5 Chimera hit, 2 immobed, 2 Shaken, 1 Wrecked

I like the idea of being self-sustained. It doesn't need another prism/spinner to work in pairs and it also doesn't need guide/doom to be effective. This being said, do you think it out weighs a squad of scatter walkers? I listed some of the pros/cons in the first post.

Also, I love your single best shots section. I think that's where the money is. Mine only consists of two immobilized razorbacks.

Also, can opponents use dozer blades or equivalent to mitigate the terrain effects?

Yes, dozer blade type mechanics work against the effect.

Scatter Walkers:
- Move 6" and fire (can run D6 instead)
- AV10
- No Holofields
- 32" Range
- BS3
- 24 shots S6 AP6
- Cover Saves likely

Night Spinner:
- Move 12" and fire (Can move 13-24" instead for 4+ cover)
- AV12
- Holodfields
- Min 12" max 72" Range Barrage
- BS3 Twin Linked
- Large Blast S6 AP- Rending (Monofiliment rule)
- Cover Save unlikely

The armor difference + holos and speed alone make it a no brainer to me. Then again if I need S6 direct fire I have 5-6 TL Wave Serpents for that.

Nightspinners are awesome, i always run one. As mentioned above barrage, large blast str 6 with possible rending is awesome. no reason not to take one. vs hordes the difficult and dangerous come into their own, orks die in droves and if they move well 1/6 of 30 is 5, not bad for after you"ve killed stuff or havent, remember it only has to HIT to cause that secondary effect. you never need more than 2 prisms and i dont like falcons so nightspinner is a definite reccomend from me.