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 vaklor4 wrote:
...Oh really? Ouch, okay yeah fiends are still bad.

And I'd say Wrath and Rapture is worth if you want the minis now, since they'll probably delay the solo-boxes for the 4 new models.

I don't see how they're bad. They may not be ZOMG OP. They're still a fairly small model. With 3 of them that's 12 wounds. Or you can just take them individually and hide behind cover and charge. Especially since they have some useful utility.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Is Wrath and Rapture worth getting?

Five - You play both ìn 40k and AoS
Four - You play (or want to play) one in both games
Three - You play one Of the gods in both games, or are just after new sculpt.
Two - You have a tonne of the current daemons but want the character for your army.
One - You dislike the new sculpts, or are in the wrong army thread.

I am getting two boxes and selling the duplicate characters to a fellow Chaos player for cheap.

 incarna wrote:

Out of curiosity, at about $1.10-per-point, are Beasts of Nurge the most costly-per-point unit in 40k?

Try smasha gun. In US dollars 1.48$ per point.

Luckily for orks combining trukk gives you at least 4 mek guns(1 of each type) for price of less than 2 and some simple converting. But if you are strict on pure official models...Smasha guns are pretty darn awful in terms of dollars per points.

 Souleater wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Is Wrath and Rapture worth getting?

Five - You play both ìn 40k and AoS
Four - You play (or want to play) one in both games
Three - You play one Of the gods in both games, or are just after new sculpt.
Two - You have a tonne of the current daemons but want the character for your army.
One - You dislike the new sculpts, or are in the wrong army thread.

I am getting two boxes and selling the duplicate characters to a fellow Chaos player for cheap.

You also get 2 books I believe one of which has rules, and the other lore, I'm trying to find someone to split the set with despite only wanting the fiends and herald

Three books I think.

So humour me on this one: why is everybody loving Slaanesh all of a sudden? I hear they got a few point drops in CA, but surely they're not suddenly the best thing ever?

I blame Fifty Shades of Grey.

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
So humour me on this one: why is everybody loving Slaanesh all of a sudden? I hear they got a few point drops in CA, but surely they're not suddenly the best thing ever?

They now have the cheapest daemon options, by a mile. Overall they are now the best chance at a Daemon swarm you can get. Its not so much that they are the best now, they just improved from being the worst to being on par with the rest.

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
So humour me on this one: why is everybody loving Slaanesh all of a sudden? I hear they got a few point drops in CA, but surely they're not suddenly the best thing ever?

They went from one of the worst mono builds in the entire game (possibly worse than GK) to actually playerble. The point drops where substantial at an armywide level like nearly everything got 20% cheaper, some things like seeker chariots got 30% cheaper.

Yeh I suppose that's fair enough. I won't be expanding on my 30 daemonettes in a hurry though I dont think.

I’m working on getting two more SC Slaanesh boxes, one wrath and rapture box, and 5 daemonette boxes; it’ll give me 30 seekers, 90 daemonettes, 3 exalted chariots, 3 hellflayers, 3 seemed chariots, and two heralds on chariots when combined with what I already have. Plus Daemon Princes and KoSs, of course. My Slaanesh army has 9 chariots, 86 daemonettes, 2 KoS, 1 DP, and rounds out with 10 Seekers. Plus full commands. 9CP. I could get more in, but I want that swarm of chariots! And that’s just a touch under 2k.

Indeed. Now I feel like my army went from "just bad with Zarakynel being fun and bad" to "really good, but Zarakynel actively holds it back."

I hope the Character customization rules let me make an Exalted Keeper of Secrets that's fluffy for my army without forcing me to use that overpriced EKOS from FW.

"Character customization rules"?

It is pretty baffling that Herself stayed 666pts. Three Codex KoS and a DP is only about ten points more.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
"Character customization rules"?

It is pretty baffling that Herself stayed 666pts. Three Codex KoS and a DP is only about ten points more.

Yeah, or just four Codex KoS. It's ridiculous.

And there's OPEN PLAY character customization rules in Chapter Approved - you can look up details online, though no one has leaked them. My local group, however, has basically decided that they're allowed even in matched play games, unless some things are REALLY egregious. Mind you, this is the same group that offered to let me play Zarakynel at her original price, so they're just very nice all around.

We'll see what happens and I really wish the CA2018 was out already so I could read them for myself.

Why don't you just use the FW KoS as a regular KoS? I know she's a bit bigger, but...seems like just a cool centerpiece option? Just use her with normal KoS rules and normal KoS points. I can't see anybody other than the worst rules lawyers/fun police having an issue with it.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Why don't you just use the FW KoS as a regular KoS? I know she's a bit bigger, but...seems like just a cool centerpiece option? Just use her with normal KoS rules and normal KoS points. I can't see anybody other than the worst rules lawyers/fun police having an issue with it.

Character wise, it's because my Legion's commander, Czumneth Ereshkigal, is an Exalted Keeper of Secrets, not a regular one.

Game-wise, it's because Keepers of Secrets are 12-wound 5++ save models with no other protections. While they may be competitively priced for tournament games where fluff doesn't matter, they suffer a bit from it in narrative play. My Daemon Prince, supposedly one of my EKoS's lieutenants, would be dramatically tougher than she is because of the Character rule. It's unfortunate when your Exalted Keeper of Secrets, the Architect of Misery, the Burner of a Thousand Worlds (whatever whatever, those aren't all actually her titles) dies to a mediocre round of shooting from a single Taurox Prime. That's narratively silly.

EDIT:
To put in perspective: I try to write all my games into my fluff where and when I can. And it just sucks to write:
"Lo, but did doom come to the world, for Czumneth Ereshkigal, the Architect of Misery (which actually is her real title) stepped forth from the warp portal... and then a few boltguns trivially gunned her down because she's about as durable as wet paper." Every Game. And even if you do run 4 Keepers of Secrets, it's guaranteed to happen, because it gets them Slay the Warlord. And then if you don't make her the warlord, you have to explain why she is delegating command to some little gak despite being a Daemon of vanity and ambition and personally showing up.

And in my play group, we take the fluff fairly seriously, so even if I do all of those things, they'll still shoot at her just to score narrative points (which I appreciate).

Because until recently even a regular KoS was a severe drag on your list for what you could expect shler to do on the table.

I probably will run Her as a regular KoS next time I play.

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
So humour me on this one: why is everybody loving Slaanesh all of a sudden? I hear they got a few point drops in CA, but surely they're not suddenly the best thing ever?

I know others have responded but I wanted to throw my thoughts out as well.

I played Slaanesh demons since the index (with Heldrakes for fun ) and I really loved it. The speed is just amazing to get in so quickly.

The codex was nothing like I hoped for Slaanesh. The psychic powers and how the locus worked kind of bummed me out (I was hoping for generic demon bonus instead of god focused).

Slaanesh didn't have any cool tricks coming out of the codex like Bloodletter bombs and they sure as hell did not have the support options like Nurgle has. So it was pretty depressing.

The extra points here are just so massive to make a very fast CC demon army. And when I looked at how many extra points I had, I felt like I had a real amount of stuff that could get through the firepower I see (at least, of current army firepower...)

Nurgle and Khorne are probably still better overall but now I can fit in enough to actually survive getting there and have enough support. Where before I only had one herald for the str buff (which nettes so very much need).

We'll see what happens but a real Slaanesh demon horde with Fiends and Seekers looks decent.

My hopes on the Harp chick have diminished with the rule tidbits they have thrown out but overall, I am very happy with what I am seeing from Slaanesh.

What are the rules for the harp herald? I haven't had a chance to see them and don't know where to look (without waiting until it comes out officially).

A 6 point deamonette swarm will die in droves. That has good potential synergy with Typhus and some plague zombies.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
What are the rules for the harp herald? I haven't had a chance to see them and don't know where to look (without waiting until it comes out officially).

They are not out yet. The last couple tidbits are about it being able to help summoning and having a sonic weapon.

Today's post on Warhammer community mentions a bit more:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/11/11th-dec-bringing-daemons-to-life-designing-the-new-wrath-and-rapture-miniaturesgw-homepage-post-3/

Now, obviously this could turn out to be a very good model and exactly what Slaanesh needs but I thought it would be more of a buff unit.

In my experience, if your enemy is shooting at your Daemonettes - enough to make them die "in swarms" - then something has already gone catastrophically wrong elsewhere.

You can't just run at it, shouting like a brainless ninny. That's what Khorne is for.

Emeraldw wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
What are the rules for the harp herald? I haven't had a chance to see them and don't know where to look (without waiting until it comes out officially).

They are not out yet. The last couple tidbits are about it being able to help summoning and having a sonic weapon.

Today's post on Warhammer community mentions a bit more:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/11/11th-dec-bringing-daemons-to-life-designing-the-new-wrath-and-rapture-miniaturesgw-homepage-post-3/

Now, obviously this could turn out to be a very good model and exactly what Slaanesh needs but I thought it would be more of a buff unit.

I am taking that explanation for her powers with a grain of salt. She is a character that will be used in both games, and summoning is big in AOS. Especially with Slaanesh using depravity points. So that could be a nod to AoS and have nothing to do with 40k. Kind of like how in 40k we don't have Exalted KOS.

But we shall see! Tomorrow is supposed to detail what the models do.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

Emeraldw wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
What are the rules for the harp herald? I haven't had a chance to see them and don't know where to look (without waiting until it comes out officially).

They are not out yet. The last couple tidbits are about it being able to help summoning and having a sonic weapon.

Today's post on Warhammer community mentions a bit more:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/11/11th-dec-bringing-daemons-to-life-designing-the-new-wrath-and-rapture-miniaturesgw-homepage-post-3/

Now, obviously this could turn out to be a very good model and exactly what Slaanesh needs but I thought it would be more of a buff unit.

I am taking that explanation for her powers with a grain of salt. She is a character that will be used in both games, and summoning is big in AOS. Especially with Slaanesh using depravity points. So that could be a nod to AoS and have nothing to do with 40k. Kind of like how in 40k we don't have Exalted KOS.

But we shall see!

Your right, I should have clarified that all this is probably for AoS. That said, I would expect some level of similarity across the two systems.

tneva82 wrote:

 incarna wrote:

Out of curiosity, at about $1.10-per-point, are Beasts of Nurge the most costly-per-point unit in 40k?

Try smasha gun. In US dollars 1.48$ per point.

Luckily for orks combining trukk gives you at least 4 mek guns(1 of each type) for price of less than 2 and some simple converting. But if you are strict on pure official models...Smasha guns are pretty darn awful in terms of dollars per points.

Kroot Hounds. 1.54$ per point. It is still half the price when the models were in metal and came in a 2 pack!

I kind of wish forge world would drop the big character daemons and just make them generic exalted daemons instead, anyone else think this ?

 Rydria wrote:
I kind of wish forge world would drop the big character daemons and just make them generic exalted daemons instead, anyone else think this ?

Eh, nah. I doubt i'd ever play more than one of them. So beyond the special character rule, I dont see why you gotta generic 'em.

So, I made a list for some Undivided jazz.

Mind taking a look and offering critique?

 Rydria wrote:
Been thinking of trying this with the new buffs any opinions/suggested changes that don't involve going off theme ?

I was thinking on maybe dropping a seeker each and adding in an icon to each squad, so I can potentially get the first turn charge with the icon re-roll to hit buffs from the stratagems. (it isn't an optimal list it does require some tweaks) though I do like the idea of having 170 models on the table

Spoiler:

Brigade 1986
HQ 300
Winged Daemon prince – 180 (Claws)
Herald – 60
Herald – 60

Troops 720
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60
Daemonettes x10 = 60

Elites 126
Fiend x1 = 42
Fiend x1 = 42
Fiend x1 = 42

Fast attack 690
Seekers x20 (Instruments of chaos) = 310
Seekers x20 (Instruments of chaos) = 310
Hellflayer = 70

Heavy Support 230
Seeker Chariot = 50
Seeker Chariot = 50
Seeker Chariot = 50

This is insane. You have 120 daemonettes? I'd love to play against this list some day. The daemonettes would ruin bloodletters.

I was considering the opposite list, "Royal court" style with six Keepers of Secrets and two Daemon Princes, with 3x30 Daemonettes in a BN besides.

6 KoS = 990 (2 Supreme Command)
2 Daemon Princes with wings and swords = 360 (Battalion HQs)
3x 30 Daemonettes with banners and instruments =615 (Battalion Troops)

1965. Flavor to taste.

EDIT:
Worth mentioning my local playgroup uses Rule of 3 only for organized matched play events.