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I'am currently writing some fanfic about my Dark Eldar Archon who has been resurected (see Path of the Renegade book) but had nearly all of her kabal destroyed. She now has to rebuild it piece by piece. But I'am not actually sure how for her to get back on top. Shes a good charismatic leader and all but lost a lot of reputation after she lead most of her Kabal into a slaughter (I lost an apocalypse game to my mate so this was the forfeit stroywise). So I'am not sure how you rebuild a Kabal in ten easy steps exactly? Any ideas?

Basically dark eldar become Archons through extreme skill in the art of war and manipulating other to do their will. They play dark and dirty to get what they want.

starwolf117 wrote:Basically dark eldar become Archons through extreme skill in the art of war and manipulating other to do their will. They play dark and dirty to get what they want.

But how would she convince people to follow her and get resources in the first place?

i like this idea

as per your question i would have thought that it would be more on the lines of kill the current leader and any other challengers

for example to gain more warriors, ships, weapons ect she would have to kill there leader to earn there respect

Totalwar1402 wrote:
But how would she convince people to follow her and get resources in the first place?

By giving them what they want.

scotta29 wrote:i like this idea

as per your question i would have thought that it would be more on the lines of kill the current leader and any other challengers

for example to gain more warriors, ships, weapons ect she would have to kill there leader to earn there respect

Well, she could go Kill Bill on the other Archons as she does literally just have some rags and a sickle she stole from a wrack. But I was leaning more to building it from the ground up fairly slowly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:
But how would she convince people to follow her and get resources in the first place?

By giving them what they want.

But surely every Dark Eldar thinks they're a good leader and wouldn't defer to somebody without status; especially not a disgraced Archon with nothing but her own wits. If you're suggesting what I first read into that comment then I'am pretty sure, Cleopatra not withstanding, that there are limits to doing that.

You research should some Medieval/Victorian/Elizabethan European history. The way I picture the Dark Eldar society is one of dirty politics, infighting, and backstabbing. To get to the top, you make friends, gather influence, kill your enemies, and then kill your friends.

If you've ever read the 'dex, you can find the Vect's rise to power section. What you see there is basically that you rise to power through 1-way trades, trickery and back-stabbing, and by earning respect through this.

acekevin8412 wrote:You should some Medieval/Victorian/Elizabethan European history. The way I picture the Dark Eldar society is one of dirty politics, infighting, and backstabbing. To get to the top, you make friends, gather influence, kill your enemies, and then kill your friends.

So you're saying I should progress from

The Beggars Opera

to

The Cataline

lol

Perhaps a charismatic individual arises with a particularly dark vision, some kind of powerful inner drive, one who is excessively ruthless, efficient and thorough.

He lies low for a while, biding his time and consolidating his power base. His ruthless violence marks him as an individual to be feared in single combat, and grudgingly respected. As he gains a name for himself, other Eldar are attracted by his charisma, or share his vision. Some simply see him as a means to get the power and wealth that they don't have the cunning or intellect to achieve alone. They feign loyalty in order to reach this position, but ultimately will betray their lord. Others still are coerced, threatened or tricked into supporting him, and as his power base grows, minor factions will ally with him to avoid being the attention of his wrath. Coups, assassinations and hostile takeovers take other players off the board and allow the Archon-to-be to fill the power vacuum.

This is a dangerous point for the budding Cabal, not yet a major player, they have local influence but could still be easily stamped out by one of the major houses. Maybe they form a mutually beneficial relationship with a Wych cult or a local gang or Hellions or Reavers to augment their forces.

If they manage to avoid being squashed by one of the main houses for long enough, eventually they may have enough stability and security to finally become a house of their own, raising elite Trueborn warriors and making alliances with powerful groups of Incubi and Haemonculi. At this point they are bound to be noticed by one of the larger Cabals or even one of the major houses, and their fate could go one of three ways. Firstly, they are destroyed utterly. Secondly, they are powerful, devious and prepared enough to best their attackers and in victory they win the holdings of their would-be destroyers. And thirdly but very rarely, they may come to some kind of accord with one of the main houses. Maybe an individual like Vect or someone of similar stature sees promise in the young Archon and his Cabal and decides to sponsor or support him. But the young Archon should be wary, for having someone like this as your friend is even more dangerous than having them as your enemy.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

starwolf117 wrote:Basically dark eldar become Archons through extreme skill in the art of war and manipulating other to do their will. They play dark and dirty to get what they want.

But how would she convince people to follow her and get resources in the first place?

If I might make a suggestion. If she has her followers still loyal to her, she has a spring board from which to begin. First she needs to target an arrogant (especially so for a dark eldar) and powerful Archon. One who has allowed himself to become lax as a result of his long stint in power. This archon she must prostrate herself before and supplicate. "sucking up" as it where until he allowes her into his good graces as a vassal Kabal. How exactly it develops is up to you. But like asdrubael did to the other archons before he arose to power, so should your archon do to the pompus fellow. And when the time is right, BOOM, strike hard, strike fast, and strike cleanly. Completely remove his power base in one stroke, and then establish yourself on his throne, immediately establishing your loyal followers into positions of immense power within the Kabal. And like that *snap* the Kabal is now yours.

The simple answer is that she has to make other Dark Eldar want to give her what she wants.

Now the complex part is HOW exactly she goes about this. And there are a lot of potential paths that she could use some or all of to get her goals:

To keep this whole thing kinda on the same level, I'll throw up this real basic situation; your girl needs a Raider to hit the clubs in (whether she hits them to party, or hits them with a Dark Lance is her prerogative )

It could be as simple as a trade. There is a guy who makes/sells Raiders, or a factory of slave labor that produces them, they all want something be it a deal with the Haemonculi covens, some rival wiped out, or just a bunch of slaves/pain. She hands that over, bam she has the keys.

She could simply TAKE it. Not an easy thing to assault a factory, but she could bump off a guy watching another Kabal's raider and take off with one. Real simple, though that'll make her enemies, which could be good for your story.

She could use her cunning. Maybe offer to help out on a raid, or pledge herself to some gang leader/other Archon/whatever and once she is on board the Raider, she either steals it, or kills the crew or turns them to her side by making a better offer.

Another possibility is the Dark Eldar hunger for pain. If she's good enough to stand on her own in the arenas, and cause some spectacular and painful deaths, well, she's gonna get adulation and applause. It's an easy step for some Archon or noble wanting a private display to offer up payment, in the form of a new ride, if she were to comply.

That's all real basic, and not all of the options, but I hope it helps.

the simplest answer is: Bribery, backstabbing, cunning, skill, intelligence, deviousness and most importantly be utterly devious ^_^

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:

starwolf117 wrote:Basically dark eldar become Archons through extreme skill in the art of war and manipulating other to do their will. They play dark and dirty to get what they want.

But how would she convince people to follow her and get resources in the first place?

If I might make a suggestion. If she has her followers still loyal to her, she has a spring board from which to begin. First she needs to target an arrogant (especially so for a dark eldar) and powerful Archon. One who has allowed himself to become lax as a result of his long stint in power. This archon she must prostrate herself before and supplicate. "sucking up" as it where until he allowes her into his good graces as a vassal Kabal. How exactly it develops is up to you. But like asdrubael did to the other archons before he arose to power, so should your archon do to the pompus fellow. And when the time is right, BOOM, strike hard, strike fast, and strike cleanly. Completely remove his power base in one stroke, and then establish yourself on his throne, immediately establishing your loyal followers into positions of immense power within the Kabal. And like that *snap* the Kabal is now yours.

Well thats the thing. Those that weren't killed in the disastrous raid were massacred on Commoragh by rival kabals who wanted vengence for various insults and wanted to utterly sweep through her turf. Because of that, she is a known quality in Commoragh and those Kabals have a major interest in keeping her down. Any sub-Dracon or minor Kabal that sided with her would be at risk of making themselves a target of far larger players. Not only that, but submitting to another Archon would risk her being handed over to this clique of Kabals. She also, has something of an established reputation, to put it mildly , in regards to pretending to be harmless and submitting to those who betrayed her. They aren't making that mistake again.

Some good ideas in the posts above. I'am sure there'l be plenty of out of work Kabalites/ambitious individuals who'd be willing to gamble on Helstai (Archons name) returning to power. For a price and one requiring careful tact or else they'll betray her.

Dark Eldar society runs on the raids they carry out. Often there will be plenty groups that will sponsor a raid in order to get some of the loot. That is if your Archon can be convincing that the raid will be a sucess. Using this any Dark Eldar can begin to slowly build up a power base. Also your Archon may be aware of information that she aquired while she was formerly in power. This info could be used for blackmail, bribery etc. It might also be the location of some very juicy targets to raid and pillage.

Totalwar1402 wrote: She also, has something of an established reputation, to put it mildly , in regards to pretending to be harmless and submitting to those who betrayed her. They aren't making that mistake again.

Some good ideas in the posts above. I'am sure there'l be plenty of out of work Kabalites/ambitious individuals who'd be willing to gamble on Helstai (Archons name) returning to power. For a price and one requiring careful tact or else they'll betray her.

Someone who is already known for appearing harmless and being a snake will have to work really hard to get back up - as you say, no one in his right mind would take her into his kabal. This former Archon may well have to make deals outside Comorragh to build up some power. If she had a reputation for leading good raids she could possibly gather a small force of down-on-their-luck warriors hoping to strike it rich. Take these and make some deals with aliens, such as mercenary work for anyone offering to pay. Steal everything that isn't bolted down, take as many slaves as she can, kill and terrorize, recruit alien mercenaries - but don't doublecross any employers unless they really had it coming. She might need to make a lot of these gigs, after all. And look out for the guy who is only waiting to take over her new start of a Kabal, ofc... Maybe even encourage some not-too-bright upstart by giving him the idea. Then execute him painfully in public when he makes his move to build up some rep.

Murder.

I always think of the Dark Eldar working like the Necromongers in the Chronicles of Riddick.

You keep what you kill.

Dark eldar work through a system of carrot and stick

The carrot is ultimate wealth and power. The stick is torture, dismemberment, soul destruction and if you're lucky death. Basically your charcter will be saying to those she needs to ally with her "If you follow me you be able to become one of the most warriors in commoragh, if you don't I will use this sickle to peel away your skin." Followed by her killing one of the best fighters just to show she can.

Dark eldar will follow other dark eldar because the rewards outweigh the risks, if they think they are following the biggest badass around it doesn't matter if they start out low. It's why all the gangs work for the Baron and how Vect gained his power. There was plenty of thievery, backstabbing and lying, but others will go along with it because they're either too afraid to do anything about it or because they're impressed with your gumption. In dark eldar society, if you can't keep what you steal, kill and lie for you will be dead.

So not like the necromongers at all, you only keep what you kill because no-one is willing to risk trying to fight you for it.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

starwolf117 wrote:Basically dark eldar become Archons through extreme skill in the art of war and manipulating other to do their will. They play dark and dirty to get what they want.

But how would she convince people to follow her and get resources in the first place?

Threats, favours, and goods. For example, "let me borrow your ship for three weeks and I will give you 5% of the slaves I capture on my raid," or assassinates a ship's owner and anyone else in the inheritance or whatever DE do with someone's stuff when they die until they sell it for almost nothing out of fear, or "I know that you want (inset name here)'s job, give me a little money to start up my enterprise and I will deal with him for you if you catch my drift." If one side doesn't meet their end of the bargain they have a new enemy that might want them dead and might sacrifice everything to do it.

I guess the best way to describe the DE's methods, would be the "Borgia" method

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Borgia

If I were writing the story, I might have your Archon join some other Kabal and work her way up the ranks. When she assassinates the current Archon she could then reveal to her Kabal who she is and thereby regain her reputation as a cunning leader. The process could take as long or short as you want.

To answer your initial question, I think it's too expensive and difficult to build a Kabal from the ground up. Especially if you haven't any wherewithal to do it. I don't think brand new Kabals spring up very often. When they do it's probably from somebody's remarkable wealth. I think joining an existing Kabal is much more feasible for a character who is bereft of her once substantial assets. This would give her access to resources. That access would grow as she outperforms her superiors.

Right this the idea I got so far...

Helstai knows some old webway links and targets from her time as Archon. She picks up a fairly easy one and gets several hundred thugs with splinter rifles to follow her. After a bit of training she goes on the raid.

By good fortune a rival Kabal also sent a frigate onto an armed raid on this world. Striking multiple targets and leaving the actual ship itself fairly bereft of armed crew.

Helstai, being ambitious, ambushes one of these raiding parties as they are loading slaves. Stealing their raiders she flies up to the ship under the guise that this particular force has taken too heavy casualties from the Tau and needs to return. The enemy Archon is overconfident and eager to proove her ruthlessness in her new command. She actually intends to punish the insolent commander who has refused her orders and that arrogant pride means she ignores details like how every raider is undamaged.

Her troops storm the ship before the Dracon can react with a proper defence. Helstai hacks the Dracon's head off in single combat. Just as this happens the raiding force arrives in the hanger bays but Helstai seals them inside and tells them they can either join her or she vents them into space. Perhaps venting one compartment out as an example and putting it on speaker so that the rest can hear what happens.

End result, shes one ship up and has just bloodied the nose of a rival kabal. She can then use the ship and its forces to complete the raid and ravage the Tau world; returning to Commoragh with a fair number of slaves and greater reputation for winning through ruthless deception over a far larger and better equiped force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Archonate wrote:If I were writing the story, I might have your Archon join some other Kabal and work her way up the ranks. When she assassinates the current Archon she could then reveal to her Kabal who she is and thereby regain her reputation as a cunning leader. The process could take as long or short as you want.

To answer your initial question, I think it's too expensive and difficult to build a Kabal from the ground up. Especially if you haven't any wherewithal to do it. I don't think brand new Kabals spring up very often. When they do it's probably from somebody's remarkable wealth. I think joining an existing Kabal is much more feasible for a character who is bereft of her once substantial assets. This would give her access to resources. That access would grow as she outperforms her superiors.

I think I mentioned it before. She kind of has a reputation for not being trusted and being almost psychotically ambitious; even for a Dark Eldar. You don't leave a trail of bodies like that before people start to get the message. Only a serious fool would think they could control somebody like that.

Not only that but she has a large number of Kabals which had a hand in her downfall that if they found out who she was would want her dead. I suppose I could have her change her face, wear a helmet, go undercover etc. But I don't think the character would do that. She thinks her name and face carry weight; it would also imply cowardice to cower before her enemies. The character has a massive ego, but most of the time has the talent to back this arrogance up; although it did get her killed quite horrifically.

Steal something to fly around in, or make a friend, enter into another eldar's service and then steal something of value or similar value acquiring process.

kill some space pirates or a rogue trader. All sorts of whacky raiding or extorting or trickery to be gotten out in the wild black yonder.

Or she could find a reasonable suitor. She was an archon and clearly possessed of character and ability. Do eldar marry? They have noble houses and I'm sure her recent failure is only momentary diversion for a court constantly at each others throats.

Probably what I would do.

Lucre wrote:

Or she could find a reasonable suitor. She was an archon and clearly possessed of character and ability. Do eldar marry? They have noble houses and I'm sure her recent failure is only momentary diversion for a court constantly at each others throats.

.

I have no idea. Personally I think marriage is too against what Dark Eldar are about. Maybe alliances that involve sex, even arragned inheritence through concieved off-spring, but the idea of any Archon; male or female being told they can only stay with one person would be a kind of hell for them. In fact you could even argue that its unhealthy for them given the nature of their souls.

Shes not really in court at the minute; once shes dealt with the various kabals who took her down and became 'respectable' again she can get back to horse-trading.

I try to give her a relationship with her daughter since I can easily imagine an Archon having a protege type relationship with their own flesh and blood. Generally she does care about her in her own way and is even willing to take risks to ensure her safety. She won't admit this of course, since that compromises her whole ruthless persona about being an archon. Think mafia style family relations where the threat of hoorific violence lies behind the smiles.

Oh the most important aspect of a Eldars (DE) rise to power is slaves, they are the commodity which keeps Comorragh going, and which keeps the Eldar youthful. The more you take on a raid, the more status and wealth will come your way.

First, there is no such thing as loyalty in the Dark Eldar society.

Trickery, deceit, threats, buying off the 'help' and outright displays of power by killing your rivals are the only way to win anything resembling respect.

An Archon holds onto power by knowing their enemies, keeping them close, and playing them against each other.

Lying, trickery, backstabbing, but if all else failed they could act like R.J in Over the Hedge.

If it's anything like the Druchii, Kill the one above you and take their place.

clively wrote:First, there is no such thing as loyalty in the ORK society.

Trickery, deceit, threats, buying off the 'help' and outright displays of power by killing your rivals are the only way to win anything resembling respect.

A WARBOSS holds onto power by knowing their enemies, keeping them close, and playing them against each other.

I fixed that for ya.

I know this is how DE used to be portrayed, but having read the new codex, I don't get this vibe from them anymore. Commorragh is more dangerous than ever, but that's why individuals are best served by being loyal to whatever Gang/Coven/Aerie/Sect/Kabal they belong to. If your family dislikes you, they might not be inclined to turn your remains over to the homunculus for resurrection. There is a time for a little manipulation, but it's all very subtle. Outwardly, they appear always loyal. Their cruelty is inflicted primarily upon other races, secondarily upon rival Kabals and such. Something like the Houses of Necromunda only on a larger scale. To overtly betray the group that sustains you is the fast track to a horrible death.

The backstabbing begins with ambitious aristocrats coveting positions of power, and retaliation for failed attempts to arrest that power. But most DE just want their tasty soul fix.