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I used to be all about the Fire Prisms. Don't get me wrong I like War Walkers too, but as far as Heavy Support Choice Tanks in the Eldar Codex right now it used to be Prisms to me... Then after playing many games, I realized, 'man this S.O.B.'s don't hit that much'. I then pulled out my Falcons that had long been collecting dust and began to run those. I found that in my hands at least, I was much more consistent with them and for contesting objectives, they are hard to kill. I was just in a 2500pt tourney 4 round, and took 2 Falcons and 1 squad of War Walkers with Scatter Lasers. I ended in 6th place out of 24, but the highest ranked Eldar player, and believe it or not there were 4 of us at the tourney (they came out of the wood works for this one). I had Eldrad and a squad of 5 naked DA, the falcon had Pulse Laser, Brightlance and Shuri Cannon. My other Falcon was the same with same loadout and 5 DA naked. I had 2 more DA naked in WS with BL and 2 WS with Shuri Cannons with Fire Dragons Exarch with FP and Crack shot (6man), squad of 10 Harlies with troope master and shadowseer, a Seer council on bikes 1 FS with Doom and Fortune and 5 Warlocks -2 with speer, 3 with WB. Any way, I won 3 of the 4 games and lost big to a choas marine player. I beat Necrons in my first game, Eldar in the Second and Vanilla Marines in the last game. My Falcons, did a lot of the heavy shooting for high AV vehicles the whole tourney. I had practiced the 2 weeks prior to the tourney with both Fire Prisms and Falcons and in the games with the Falcons, they seemed to outshine. Just wonder what other peoples opinions were. I have changed my opinion on my Falcons... What about you guys and gals out there?

It really depends on your list composition.

In general, the fire prisms are better, but you have to take 2-3 for that to actually matter. Otherwise I would say go war walker and a falcon or two, especially if you have some small 6 man or less squads rolling around.

Lots get two nightspinners, no tanks and rely on 3+ squads fire dragons popping tanks. I like falcons cuz you can stash a 5man sqd plus warlock to hold objectives. Prisms are really only effective in high pt games when you bring 2-3

I've been running double Falcons in pretty much all my tournament lists for ages since I've found them significantly more helpful in basically every way. With Holos they are incredibly durable and protect your scoring units, which in itself is important since it means you don't have to buy too many of them (since Eldar troops are terrible).

In terms of damage output they generally do better than Prisms as well. Against vehicles 3 BS4 S8 shots (which can be Guided) gives you a solid long range gunboat which is better than a Prism (unless you link, which is 230pts for 1 shot), and against infantry and light vehicles the Dakka version with 2 S8 and 7 S6 shots does pretty well as well.

The thing is that Prisms aren't actually that impressive in terms of damage output, the Pie Plate is useful but the Nightspinner is better at pure anti infantry, and while 115pts for a skimmer is pretty nice, its basically just 115pts for a Lascannon (effectively BS3 since its a blast) isn't really a good buy. You are paying a premium for its flexibility and its ability to link, neither of which are actually particularly useful (everyone is mech, so you fire the S9 shot most of the time, and linking is usually worse than firing two shots and is easy to block).

That's the load out I use for my Falcons and it works wonders! My opponents tell me I'm crazy because with Stones and Holos it's 200 points, but they're essential to my army. They Dakka very well and they can bring tanks down no problem. The lance helps a lot vs NewCrons too.

Comparing even just the firepower and durability, I like the Falcon better. The Prism is 1 weapon destroyed result away from being a tankshock machine. The Falcon on the other hand has 3 excellent guns in this configuration AND it's got scoring troops inside. And there's even room for a Farseer to be protected and cast powers from there.

My Prisms have whiffed waaaay more times than my Falcons. If the cannon didn't look so awesome I'd regret buying them.

Falcons are tough to justify. Real expensive and no more survivable than the other tanks (in fact, less!)

But if I had to choose, I'd probably go with Prisms if the army is pretty mobile already. If its fairly stagnant, Falcons make more sense as their defenders will probably be tougher.

The two cant really be directly compared.

Yes, a fully pimped out falcon will be better than a fire prism. But instead of two heavily upgraded falcons I will quite happily take 3 prisms and add a few more points to some of my other squads.

Or better yet, I will take two prisms and a unit of warwalkers (my personal favorite heavy slot mix). Or upgrade your waveserpents/ infantry.


Model to model, sure take the falcon if you have no worry about points. For the points cost and the limit of 3 heavy slots avoid falcons like the plague.

Fire dragons are your real tank busters, all the heavy slot choices do better on other targets.

Falcons are neither great transports nor great shooters, they can do both jobs to some extent tho so they are flexible. However you pay for this flexibilty in having a high point cost. And to make them a scoring unit remember to add the extra 60 points for the DA. To make a falcon a big bad tough shooty scoring machine we have to sink 250+ points into the thing. Unless one is playing a VERY high point game there are always better places to put those points.


Sliggoth



Sliggoth

there compleatly different tanks.

Falcons with holo fields hold objectives. with BS3 they arnt a good shooting unit, and generally do pretty bad with 3 str8 shots.

Fire Prisms arnt scoring, and have a 60" range which is where there survivability comes from. Fire Prisms need to be run in pairs, and running them with anything less is bad. They are great at taking out stormravens and large armor 12 tanks with a twin linked str10 ap1 small blast. They are also great at taking out marine squads in the open with a str6 ap3 blast.

Smitty0305 wrote:there compleatly different tanks.

Falcons with holo fields hold objectives. with BS3 they arnt a good shooting unit, and generally do pretty bad with 3 str8 shots.

Fire Prisms arnt scoring, and have a 60" range which is where there survivability comes from. Fire Prisms need to be run in pairs, and running them with anything less is bad. They are great at taking out stormravens and large armor 12 tanks with a twin linked str10 ap1 small blast. They are also great at taking out marine squads in the open with a str6 ap3 blast.

This is exactly the reason I run two Prisms and War Walkers instead of Falcons. Yes, the Falcons can score with Avengers - but as with anything, I think whatever fits your play style best is what you should use. In my variant of Mechdar, If my opponent is shooting at my Prisms, they aren't shooting at my Dragons. If they are trying to take down the Dragons, my Prisms can take care of what the Dragons were trying to take care of with a STR10, AP1 shot @ 60 inches.

I used to run prisms all the time in 2's or threes. I too love the war walkers, but their fragility is annoying, unless you have juicier targets after the first time 24 shots from war walkers comes the opponents way they are usually wrecking a squad or 2 a turn. I usually try to protect them behind Falcons or other tanks. I have just not been impressed with fire prisms performances, esp twin linked. I have run both in tourneys and in my hands falcons work better for me, but to others may be not. Most of us except for a few exceptions (badsheep to name one) generally take at least one farseer with their army, so guiding a Falcon with a brightlance and 2 pulse shots against a vehicle vs 1 pie plate shot at s 9, yes please. esp with the new crons and their 13 fields.

Fire Prisms never cut it for me even with twin-linking. Therefore, I stay away from them.
Falcons are overpriced for what they can do.
Therefore, I mostly go for Serpents and WW's.
So for me its neither nor.

I agree the falcons are overpriced, but except for war walkers what isn't over priced in our codex?

Fire Dragons.

We pay 180pts for 5 BS4 meltaguns in a Fast Skimmer with AV 12/12/10, and IG pay 155pts for 3 BS4 meltaguns in a Chimera with AV 12/10/10. 25pts for a fast skimmer, extra 2 armour values on the sides, and 2 more meltaguns is a bargain.

fire dragons are exchange units. Don't like exchange units that cost that much, or really in general.

Sorry I stand corrected Fire Dragons are a good deal too...

Not as good as melta Guardians can be. Two meltas, which is no laughing matter, you get 12 in a Wave Serpent for 116 with their Meltas. melee capable against mid-tier units, and when close to an Avatar, very useful tarpit and likely to require more of the enemies attention than they are excited about giving them. Also, they are scoring.

But Fire Prisms, in any event, for the winxor. =)

Powerguy wrote:In terms of damage output they generally do better than Prisms as well. Against vehicles 3 BS4 S8 shots (which can be Guided) gives you a solid long range gunboat which is better than a Prism (unless you link, which is 230pts for 1 shot), and against infantry and light vehicles the Dakka version with 2 S8 and 7 S6 shots does pretty well as well.

Isn't the Falcon BS3 ?

I think the power of the prism is its range and reach (a 60" BS 3 STR 9 shot), i guess by flexibility that is good.

severedblue wrote:

Powerguy wrote:In terms of damage output they generally do better than Prisms as well. Against vehicles 3 BS4 S8 shots (which can be Guided) gives you a solid long range gunboat which is better than a Prism (unless you link, which is 230pts for 1 shot), and against infantry and light vehicles the Dakka version with 2 S8 and 7 S6 shots does pretty well as well.

Isn't the Falcon BS3 ?

I think the power of the prism is its range and reach (a 60" BS 3 STR 9 shot), i guess by flexibility that is good.

A Falcon is indeed BS3, but a Fire Prism is actually BS4

I always run a single prism and a night spinner in my 1850 Eldar list im quite proud of. How i use my prism is for 3 things, 1 killing light tanks (rhinos come to mind), 2 killing heavy infantry with a oportunely timed str 9 ap 2 small blast (deep striking termies come to mind there), lastly for helping vs hordes with that str 5 ap 4 large blast, very useful especially if the target is doomed. The prism can also move 12" and fire at full effectiveness.

The falcon is a good tanks for protecting your scoring units, outside of that i cant see it causing much more damage than the prism (doesnt help i cant roll a 4+ to save my life) so really thats the main beef for me vs falcons. However it is worth noting you lose weapon range of the prism, and can only move 6" and fire at full capacity with the falcon, which, if you get assaulted, means youre being hit on 4's...

In conclusion id take prism any day of the week, as it is less points and fits the structure of my army adding to the balance of my list. (and a wave serpent when used right can usually protect my Avengers well enough for what i need anyways).

Fire Prisms are decent for long-ranged support, but the Falcon is a more flexible option with the potential to unleash a lot of firepower. I tend to run two as support for several Wave Serpents loaded with Dire Avengers, the advantage comes in being able to get in close and pour fire into the enemy. Fire Prisms are optimized for killing either light infantry or heavy tanks, Falcons can take on a broader range of foes.

I used to always take 3 fire prisms, but in my hands the Falcons have helped me so much as a guided fire support, scoring unit, contesting/taking objectives and surviving the shooting. One tourney the da and Eldrad inside survived thanks to the Falcon getting stripped of all 3 weapons, immobilized, but not wrecked thanks to the 3 weapon slots it had. It was basically a box, but it protected my DA and Eldrad inside from getting shot and kept on the objective. I agree Fire Prisms have great uses too. Wish Falcons were a troop transport upgrade...

I take a falcon and 2 dark reaper squads personally.

kit falcon w/ pulse laser, bright lance, shuri cannon and holo fields

dark reapers x5 w/ exarch w/ tempest launcher and fast shot

granted that runs me a little over 600 in the heavy slot, but at lower point lvls use 3 reapers

I really hope that in future editions, they give Dark Reapers back their EML. To me it is just like having Long fangs or Devastator squads with SM. I just don't really like what their guns are right now. They do have their uses, but for their point costs, I just don't think that they are worth it. however everything in the Eldar Codex is overpriced right now.