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Hey, Dakka!

I've been contemplating about the Tau army for some time now, and I was pondering hard about the Battleforce as a foundation. Through my limited knowledge of the Tau, the Battleforce seems as a great place to start (unlike what other armies battleforces has to offer).

The army type I've been contemplating is pretty standard. Mech'ed up and a good portion of battlesuits all around - (perhaps with a defensive kroot bubble?)

So a few questions along these lines are:
- Is the Battleforce really worth the buy?
- How would you suggest to expand your force after the Battleforce?
- How would a 1.500-2.000 range list look like for you?
- Anything else a brand new Tau player should take into consideration?

Thanks in advance,
Bill'

If you're going new models only (and not e-bay finds) then yes, it's a good start.

You'll need the following (IMHO):
3-6 more battlesuits (they are the mainstay of your army and do all the heavy lifting as far as mobile firepower goes)
2 Hammerheads
At least 1 more devilfish
3 broadsides
Another box of firewarriors.

Keep in mind, with some conversion work, firewarrior models are easily changed into pathfinders.

If you go with a kroot list, you're going to need hounds.

There's a great deal to say about Tau tactics but a few basics:
1. Avoid CC like it's the plague because if even 2 marines touch a 12-man FW squad, they're likely dead. Keep them mounted in devilfish until you see an opportunity to pump overwhelming fire into something and wipe it out. Either that or bunker up in a building.

2. Stay mobile and concentrate your fire as much as possible. Your broadsides and hammerheads are great at popping tanks and transports, especially with markerlight support but once the enemy is unhorsed, make him pay to get across the field.

3. Know your army. You'll want to play around with lists until you get something that works; prepare to lose a great number of initial games because Tau play so differently than every other army in the game that you probably aren't mentally prepared for the amount of finesse it takes for them to pull out a win.

4. Every vehicle gets a disruption pod, don't think about, just do it. :-)

5. Keep your suits a cheap as possible with dedicated roles in the fight. It's too easy to dump a bunch of wargear and weapons on them and then they won't do anything for you. Take missile pod suits to take out transports, plasma rifle suits for anti-MEQ, and fusion suits for suicide vehicle destroyers.

6. Jump-shoot-jump (JSJ) is your friend. Place your suits behind some terrain, pop out, shoot and then jump back. Target denial will make your opponent scream as you pick apart his army and not allow him to shoot back.

Kroot bubble-wrap's never worked that well for me. I use kroot as flankers or to come on behind the enemy and cause mischief in the backfield and/or take objectives.

Just a few thoughts; I'm sure others will add to this and provide their own thoughts.

Yes it is.

It gives you a battlesuit, which can be an HQ, it gives you two troops, a transport and some stealth suits, there are also some drones in there.

I would suggest something around the lines of two battleforces, three broadsides, and then a few more crisis suits for a starting tau player. Keep in mind you will want shield drones, but you can easily make them using the leftover shield gen bits from all the battlesuits. You are also going to need some pathfinders, which can be made from normal firewarriors or you can always get the actual models, ebay is a good spot. NO rail rifles!

For me, a 1500-2000 point list looks nothing like what a starting player would use, but for reference:



I don't run crisis suits, but as a general list idea this should help you. Broadsides are main anti-tank, deepstriking shadowsun is a secondary as are the railgun hammer heads + the piranha and seeker missiles. The pathfinders assist the broadsides and the target for all the firewarriors normally, and I just try to stay out of melee.

A few key notes when playing tau:

Never get into melee combat
Markerlights work better at 1000+ point games
Markerlights will save you, losing them will hurt you, protect them
Read on how jet pack units move in the book
All tau vehicles need an upgrade called disruption pods, never leave home without it
Plasma/missile pods/ multi-tracker is the safest setup on a battlesuit
Don't glue your battlesuit guns in
Skyrays and sniper teams suck, hard. Don't get any, BUT! if buying the hammerhead get the skyray box because it comes with the parts for a devilfish, hammerhead and skyray.

I will add some points of my own, some agreeing, some differing:

1) A new codex is (eventually) coming. If you are at all a painter, buy what you like the look of while you still can, no matter how bad it's supposed to be, and especially if you can still get it in metal. Nobody knows what will be good or bad in the new codex, but everyone knows one thing - Finecast models will be expensive, and may or may not be crap, depending on who you ask. Case in point: I own an Ethereal. There's no way I'm going to field it now, but I will paint it, and I'll hang on to it, and with the new codex... we'll see.

2) There are two main markerlight platforms: Pathfinders and Stealth Marker Team. There are plusses and minuses to each one. You should probably have both in your stable, since Pathfinders are easy to make out of Fire Warriors (I've got some made that way myself) and the Stealth Suits come with the Battleforce, you'll just need to get a couple of extra Marker Drones off eBay.

Hey, and thanks a bunch for the informative replies!

I'm trying to get my head wrapped fairly around the Tau as a whole. I get a feeling, that they have similarities with the Eldars in some aspects (Whereas their differences are very clear in others). So even though I'm unfamiliar with the Tau, I do recognise SOME aspects of the strategic and tactical elements, carried over from extensive reads and experience from my Mechdar.
- What I'm much interested in here, is to clearly differentiate those two, besides the most distinctive features.

Also a few questions along these lines:
- What are the utmost capabilities of the Tau? (compared to a shooty Mechdar, for example).
- Are there any units/models within the current Tau codex, that is simply a no-go in every regard of a succesful list?
- Are there any must-have units within the codex?

Anyway, thanks again for the replies. I'll look around for more in-depth Tau tactica around the forums and cross my fingers for some more replies in here in the meantime.

Regards,
Bill'

The tau are long and short range shooting race in a sense, they can maneuver around well, but not as fast as eldar. Tau rely on focused fire for the most part, the tau army needs to work together, don't think of a unit like a well balanced killing machine.

The units in the codex that should be avoided like the plague are the sniper drone teams and skyrays. Very difficult units to use are vespids and ethereals. A non-mech tau army will benefit greatly from a single ethereal, should you protect him properly. Stealth suits are complicated to use, though used properly can be extremely effective. Piranhas are useful, but fragile.

Must have units are simple for the new player. Battlesuits and broadsides. After that, some pathfinders will help you ensure destruction. Then just some fire warriors in or out of devilfishes will top the list off.

Must-haves:
Broadsides
Battle Suits
Firewarriors (they're 1+ in the list so you have to take them)
Pathfinders (as mentioned earlier in larger games)
Hammerheads
Devilfish

No-Go:
Vespid
Krootox
Etherials (Billinator had a good piece of advice in that picking one up may be a good idea because you never know if they'll be awesome in the next 'dex)

Marginal:
Stealth Suits (some swear by them but I never thought they were worth it)

This is all my opinion YMMV.

as it currently stands in the tau codex;
ethereals and vespids are for the most part useless.

i generally avoid kroot alltogether too but they do have their uses and kroot hounds can really help them out. krootox are garbage.

markerlights are a must in the 1500-2k range battles.

broadsides are also a really excellent heavy choice being that the game favours mech armies, and you really can;t get a better anti-mech unit.

devilfish are great at getting your fire warriors out of trouble and to capture points or nice cover, i usually highjack my pathfinders DF after it has dropped them off in an ideal location.

snipers have limited use and while i do use rail rifle pathfinders, i play with larger armies and use them for map control. ok for slowing down enemies with pinning at a good range, but for the most part not worth it in standard games.

hammerheads are your friends. the railgun swaps from a s10 ap1 single shot feth up your tank gun to a s6 ap4 long range large blast on the fly. all mounted on a fast durable chassis and bs4 to boot.

skyrays are again one of those units that finds use in bigger battles, with 2 marker lights and a large supply of missiles they are fun to have but really not worth it in standard games.

the basic mind set you should have as a tau is map control. you want to be able to make your opponent afraid to move anywhere on the board. keep firewarriors in cover and away from CC as much as possible, and try not to ball them up in one spot to prevent from CC chaining.

against units with fleet Special rules, don;t be afarid to charge your firewarriors within 12" if you can to get double the shots. if they are close enough to do that, they are probably dead next turn anyway

Hey again, and thanks another stack of replies!

I'm surprised to learn that the Kroots aren't a popular choice amongst Tau players. I've read in another post, that they're used as a bubble wrapping screen for your CC-fragile suits. And with their price tag, it made sense to me to field them.
(As an old Tyranid player, I've had great success using small, cheap units as a screen for unit I didn't wish an assault upon.)

Anyways, I'm interested in a few details:
1) Which units are granted which roles? (eg. anti-MEQ, anti-Mech, anti-TEQ etc.)
2) What are the higher priority targets for Tau in general?
3) How do you use/spend your Markerlight counters
4) how do you deploy the markerlight unit(s) on the board? (I figure you're relying on Pathfinders for the task, so, yeah?)
5) What is your take on Seeker Missiles? (Realistic to amass these on any given vehicle?)

I think that's all for now... Yet again, thanks a bunch!

Billinator wrote:
I'm surprised to learn that the Kroots aren't a popular choice amongst Tau players...

Kroot are a funny thing. I like 'em, not everyone does. They're kind of hit or miss. They can work as bubble wrap, they can work as counterchargers - I once won a game because my opponent was so busy trying to wipe out the large unit of Kroot who stood a chance of harming him that he didn't bother trying to wipe out the smaller unit of Crisis Suits that could have netted him a Victory Point - and they can work as outflankers, charging in to pin down a unit you really don't want getting near you - in that same game, my Kroot came unexpectedly out of the flank and shot up a bunch of Necron Warriors I didn't want to have to deal with.

So, they've worked for me, but YMMV.

Billinator wrote:
1) Which units are granted which roles? (eg. anti-MEQ, anti-Mech, anti-TEQ etc.)

Fire Warriors actually do pretty well at killing GEQ. Crisis Suits can be outfitted as anti-MEQ or anti-TEQ, depending on their loadout. Broadsides and Hammerheads kill Mech.

Billinator wrote:
2) What are the higher priority targets for Tau in general?

KILL HIS CLOSE COMBAT UNITS ASAP!

I'm still not so good at Tau, so I can't help you more than that. I'll let you know if I've figured it out :-/. However, I can tell you that all else being equal, you have the tools at your disposal to keep your troops safe from shooting. The same is not true of close combat.

Billinator wrote:
3) How do you use/spend your Markerlight counters

Boost BS to 5, then remove cover saves.

Billinator wrote:
4) how do you deploy the markerlight unit(s) on the board? (I figure you're relying on Pathfinders for the task, so, yeah?)

I really, really dig the Stealth Marker Team. They're mobile, tough, and remarkably hard to kill, while Pathfinders are slow, fragile, and easy to kill. Infiltrate makes it extremely easy to take advantage of terrain

Billinator wrote:
5) What is your take on Seeker Missiles? (Realistic to amass these on any given vehicle?)

Seeker missiles have the following problems: they aren't as good as railguns at killing vehicles, and they are completely useless at killing infantry (because they can only deliver one hit per seeker missile per markerlight). I'd say to ignore them.

I would also add to the above that fast vehicles should be a priority over the heavier ones. You want to keep everything as far away as possible from you.

I'll second the stealth marker team. With night fight rules it helps to keep your marker lights safe as well as making them relentless from jetpacks so you can move around and laserpoint everything.

Also for seeker missiles, they do have a use for taking out lighter vehicles so you can save your railguns for the big guys. One or 2 of them can take out most lighter transports because i believe they always hit the side armor, someone will have to check that for me. But as with all these comments YMMV.

It seems Stealthsuits could become rather pricy, if used as Markerlights (100 pts being the bare minimum). OTOH, they do have jet packs for some JSJ action and stealth gen. Kinda reminds me of Warp Spiders.
Pathfinders, however, comes a lot cheaper, and packs a lot more Markerlights, but they don't quite strike me as very resilient either.

Well, I think I'm slowly getting to grips with the codex. It's just nice to have SOME idea about what you should buy, before coming home with a box of models you find out isn't worth the money. But I figure a safe buy would be the Battleforce. After that, I guess, it's getting some Hammers and suits.

One last thing though... How do you equip your HQ's? Or alternatively... Is Shadowsun a better option?

Your HQ should complement the army.

If you are using a single crisis suit HQ, then consider an aurora build, which is plasma and cyclic ion blaster, it kills TEQ quite fast. You can toss on a fusion blaster if you make a shas'o for backup anti-tank.

There is also the airburster and fusion option. Works great on a shas'el and means you can destroy infantry easily with anti-tank.

Shadowsun is decent if you want backup at your main gunline of pathfinders. She boosts their leadership and can deal with deep strikers easily. Otherwise new players should run a battlesuit.

An ethereal, in a team of three broadsides with a team leader that has 2 shield drones and the ethereal himself with two shield drones is an excellent way to support a infantry heavy force. Re-rolling leadership, even rolling successes over again, can be a huge boon. Just make sure the broadside team doesn't get assaulted and keep the ethereal out of sight of vindicare assassins and sargent telion.

The space pope is the absolute worst HQ in the game, leave on the shelf.

Farsight gimps your army, but allows you to place 4 more battlesuits on the field than normal. Big deal.

Billinator wrote:1) Which units are granted which roles? (eg. anti-MEQ, anti-Mech, anti-TEQ etc.)

Your entire army is more or less anti GEQ, your weakest weapon is also your most common and it's S5AP5 and will mow through DE(if you can keep them away), IG(non vets), and Orks. Battlesuits are your MEQ/TEQ bread and butter, fit them with a Plasma Rifle and Missile Pod and you have a pretty decent MEQ choice, build them another way and you have a decent TEQ choice(there is a thread that did Mathhammering of the various XV8 builds, it identified a "Bladestorm" build as the best at TEQ, I think that build is Plasma/Burst Cannon, but I'm not sure). You can also put two missile pods on a suit and you have a very accurate choice against AV10-12 targets. Broadsides and Hammerhead solid shot are your anti armor choices.

Billinator wrote:2) What are the higher priority targets for Tau in general?

IMO, anything fast XV8s and Stealth Suits are fast units, they get to move 12" per round regardless of anything else. Fleet infantry get to move 7-12 inches a turn. use that speed to dance around your enemy and keep him from assaulting you.

Billinator wrote:3) How do you use/spend your Markerlight counters

Usually for BS boosting, occasionally for cover mitigation, once for leadership reduction to pin a unit... which still failed.

Billinator wrote:4) how do you deploy the markerlight unit(s) on the board? (I figure you're relying on Pathfinders for the task, so, yeah?)

Pathfinders deployed in cover outside of thier devilfish, honestly not sure if it's allowed (been meaning to ask here) but my opponents usually allow me to deploy my pathfinders within coherency of thier devilfish on the first turn. Sometimes I put them on stealth suits, but stopped recently because they were getting killed to much, going to see if they have more survivability without the fusion blasters.

Billinator wrote:5) What is your take on Seeker Missiles? (Realistic to amass these on any given vehicle?)

I usually have 2-4 Seekers across all my vehicles, Seekers are good, but they aren't dramatically better than the shoulder mounted missile pods of the XV8s so I like to use the markers for other stuff.

I like the tau battleforce. The 12 fire warriors make 2x6 troop units, you start with 1 devil fish so only need one more, and Kroot are great. If anything, I would add kroot to make 2 units of them.

Really the only point of contention is the stealth suits, as the 1 crisis suit is a mandatory option in a Tau list as an HQ.

Personally, I pair this set with the 9 crisis suit set that also had 3 stealth suits. You now have 6 stealth suits, and should have enough gun drones for 12 of those, giving you a 300 point 30 s5 move and shoot unit that is very hard to see. With a squad of pathfinders, this unit kills very efficiently when you need to put 10-20 some wounds on a dangerous unit. And you can pin!

I've been looking over some lists and some tactica around the net, and I've come up with a slight idea of how I want my army.

What I've been contemplating, is something along these lines:

HQ
Shas'el, TL-Mpod, Target Lock

Elite
3 Crisis, Plasma, Mpod, MT
3 Crisis, Plasma, Mpod, MT
3 Crisis, Plasma, Mpod, MT

Troops
6 FW
10 Kroot
10 Kroot

Fast Attack
8 Pathfinder, Devilfish, Pod, MT, TA, SMS
- 2 Pirahna, Fusion, TA, 1x Pod
- 2 Pirahna, Fusion, TA, 1x Pod

Heavy Support
Hammerhead, Rail, SMS, MT, Pod
Hammerhead, Rail, SMS, MT, Pod
3 Broadside, ASS, H/W Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drone, H/W TL

Something along those lines. I'm preferring the suits over FW in the end, as they seem much more mobile and reliable. The Kroots may get some hounds, but I haven't decided on that yet. But I believe kroot to be the better option, as they're able to support the army as an assault bubble. The HQ is being attached to the Broadside team to support the armies main firing line. I may be giving him Shield Drones for further resilience in the Broadside team.

All in all, I find the list flexible and able to pack quite a punch. It is, of course, a Tau army, and very vulnerable to assault - just like Tau is meant to be. But with the kroot and the JSJ, you're more capable of preventing unwanted assaults all along. It doesn't have as many Devilfish'es as I had hoped for to begin with. But I don't feel the need for them as much anyway.

My greatest concern, however, is the lists capabilities in objective games, as the troops might go down rather quickly, and result in having to contest all around. But I'm not sure it's that much of a drawback.

Any comments/criticisms are more than welcome!

Thanks!

My two cents? Pathfinders are crap. I have never been able to use them effectively. They are:

* An extremely fragile unit, equipped with the wargear that marks them as your opponent's #1 target.
* A unit that starts in your backfield and must move into position in order to be effective, equipped with a heavy weapon.
* A unit that synergizes with everything in your army, but again, equipped with a heavy weapon so it can't move to support them.

I think you should get rid of one of your Crisis Suit squads and replace it with a Stealth Marker Team. That's a 3-man stealth team equipped with a markerlight on the leader and between one and three marker drones. Between their stealth fields, their ability to jump-shoot-jump with markerlights, their 3+ saves, and their multiple wounds, they can be really hard to kill. And they're infinitely more mobile! And they can Infiltrate, Outflank, or deploy in your zone and use their Jump-Pack enabled speed (between 13 and 18 inches of movement if they run rather than shoot) to get into position!

Seriously. The squad is expensive in points, but infinitely superior as a Markerlight platform, in my opinion. And it saves you the expense of buying almost $100 worth of Crisis Suits while the Stealth Suits that come with your battleforce gather dust.

Also, I think you have too many fireknives (that's Plasma/Missiles/MT Crisis Suits). I mean, they're good and all, but Crisis suits are so versatile... If you're going to have two, or even three, Crisis Teams, I'd think of something else to do some of them. Deathrains (TL Missile Pods) are good. If you insist on keeping the Pathfinders (and their Marker Beacon), you could make a deep-striking TL Fusion Blaster suicide squad to kill enemy tanks (probably only two-man, but you could give the leader a target lock to punish opponents who group their tanks too closely).

Also, you want Shield Drones with your 'el. And all your Crisis Teams, if you can scare up the points. Shield Drones keep units alive.

My only suggestion is more fire warriors. Now from what I have seen, I am a rare tau player in that I favour my fire warriors even over my crisis suits, but they are really nice to have a few squads spread out in cover over the map because of their large 30" threat radius. If you can get them into position ealry game, by turn one or two, they can do a lot of damage vs light infantry and even light vehicles.

One thing I'd add: after a game of Special Ops Killzone, Rail Rifles are awesome at killing MEQs, which is something that the Tau usually struggle with, so if you're really bent on using Pathfinders, you could consider going with Pathfinder sniper teams.