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So a weird situation happened today. My dread assaulted a Chimera and failed to destroy it. On my opponents turn, the unit inside got out and shot and immobilized my Dread. Now here is my question. On my next turn my Dread is in base to base contact with the immobilized Chimera, and my dread is immobilized so it may not move away. Since I am in base to base contact I must attack it in the assault. Am I allowed to target another unit with shooting, and then resolve my attacks against the Chimera?

jbunny wrote:So a weird situation happened today. My dread assaulted a Chimera and failed to destroy it. On my opponents turn, the unit inside got out and shot and immobilized my Dread. Now here is my question. On my next turn my Dread is in base to base contact with the immobilized Chimera, and my dread is immobilized so it may not move away. Since I am in base to base contact I must attack it in the assault. Am I allowed to target another unit with shooting, and then resolve my attacks against the Chimera?

No, you still must Assault the unit you shoot at. So, if you shoot at a different unit, you may not assault the Chimera.

Also, just to clarify, if the Dreadnaught was still base-to-base with the Chimera in your opponents Assault phase you get your close combat attacks. See page 63, BRB, left column under "Successive turns".

Yes you can shoot. Models are not 'locked in combat' against vehicles, and can act normaly. If they're still in base to base they can attack again in the assault phase.

See page 63 of the rule book.

Edit: As mentioned above they can only shoot at the chimera however, as per assaulting a target you shot at rule.

Pg63 of the Rulebook under 'VEHICLES AND ASSAULTS: Successive Turns'

"Enemy models that are in base contact with a vehicle are not locked in combat..."

Avatar 720 wrote:Pg63 of the Rulebook under 'VEHICLES AND ASSAULTS: Successive Turns'

"Enemy models that are in base contact with a vehicle are not locked in combat..."

Correct, they are not locked in combat, but they still have to Assault the unit they shot at. So, if, in the OP example, you shoot at a unit that is not the Chimera, you can not Assault the Chimera.

Still, if you're immobilised facing a chimera, there won't be much in the Dreadnoughts LOS to shoot...

Could potentially see over it, though remember LOS has to be traced from the weapon pointed at the target (with a 45 degree arc). You don't have to assault it again. I don't see any reason why you couldn't shoot something else and still get your automatic attacks on the Chimera. Your LOS would be limited, though.

Mannahnin wrote:You don't have to assault it again. I don't see any reason why you couldn't shoot something else and still get your automatic attacks on the Chimera.

I disagree. You can only Assault the unit you fired at. There are few exceptions to this rule, and all of them, as far as I know, are quite clearly stated.

It's a bit tricky, since the BRB states that units remaining B2B with a vehicle "may attack it again, just as in a normal ongoing combat", so the Dreadnought isn't assaulting it per se, not that it's allowed to either due to being immobilised. But the ability to shoot at other units clouds the issue; would it still be able to attack as if in a normal ongoing combat if it shot at a different unit?

I would say yes, because the dread had previously assaulted the Vehicle, and no matter what he shot at, is "remaining B2B with a vehicle [and] may attack it again"
YMMV though.

ToBeWilly wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:You don't have to assault it again. I don't see any reason why you couldn't shoot something else and still get your automatic attacks on the Chimera.

I disagree. You can only Assault the unit you fired at. There are few exceptions to this rule, and all of them, as far as I know, are quite clearly stated.

Right, but he's not assaulting. He's eligible to attack again by virtue of still being in contact with a vehicle he previously assaulted. But he's not assaulting (and thus doesn't get the +1A), and is not locked in combat (so is still eligible to shoot).

As far as the LOS issue, I was using a Heavy flamer, and the guard unit was directly beside the Chimera. In the interest of speed, we 4+ it and I was allowed to shoot the guard. But the TO never gave us an official answer for the future.

In this example, you had a dread that had charged and not destroyed a vehicle.

Next turn, you may attempt to move away as normal as you can never be locked into assault with a vehicle, unless it's a walker. You could have wandered around the vehicle and shot/assaulted something else in range.

However, if you chose not to move, you can always flamer the vehicle in a way to hit other things on the other side of the vehicle. This way you may still assault the vehicle. At the same time you cannot choose to fire at a unit you cannot see, nor can you spilt fire on one target and assault another without a special rule specifically saying you can.

Unless your dread was on the corners of the vehicle, and the guys infantry had on guy poking around the side, it would be impossible to see his infantry unless the vehicle in question was a wartrakk or skorcha. Everything else is too big for arm mounted weapons to see over.

It would help to have a picture for this one. But as you charged the tank I would wonder if you had LOS on anyone that came out of the tank.

As you are not locked in CC with the tank, and if you did have LOS on the unit then you could shoot it. Then during your assault phase as described in successive turns you could attack the tank again.

If you were still mobile, it would be your choice to assault the unit, or stay put to attack the tank again.

Hrm... this begs a question of walker facing in CC.

Based off the Assult rules there are no "facing" requirementsN just B2B contact. Walkers charge just like everone else, so facing doesn't matter for CC. Could you then charge a tank and face 90 degrees from the charge direction or 180 degress to protect your side/rear armor?

RRRRRR GG
RRRRRR GG
RRRRRR GG
DD GGG


OK So R is the outline of the Chimera, G is the different Guard models, and DD is the Dread. As stated after my assault, on the next player turn my Dread was Immobilized, and not able to move away from the Chimera. The Dread had LOS to the Guard models, that was not in dispute by myself, my opponent, or the judge. Cover would have been given if not for the fact that the weapon used was a flamer.

The dread was permanently stuck next to the stuck Chimera, so every player turn the Dread had to attack the Chimera because it was in B2B contact. The only issue was could the Dread fire at the guard and then attack (not assault) the Chimera.

After re-reviewing all the rules in question, I now believe my original response to be incorrect. Mannahnin, I believe has this correct (for that matter, DeathReaper and Avatar 720 as well).

According to page 73, BRB, Walkers can "...only assault the unit they fired at.", but page 63, BRB, states, "...in base contact with a vehicle are not locked in combat and can therefore be shot during the Shooting phase.". Which would also imply they can shoot as normal in their own Shooting phase. Then goes on to say, "...models in base contact with a vehicle in its Assault phase may attack it again, just as in a normal ongoing combat..." (emphasis mine). This is telling me the Walker does not have to Assault the vehicle again, it just simply gets to attack it again because it is already in base-to-base. And since it doesn't have to assault the vehicle it's not breaking the rule about only assaulting what you fired at.

I now believe the OP did it correctly.

Yonush wrote:Hrm... this begs a question of walker facing in CC.

Based off the Assult rules there are no "facing" requirementsN just B2B contact. Walkers charge just like everone else, so facing doesn't matter for CC. Could you then charge a tank and face 90 degrees from the charge direction or 180 degress to protect your side/rear armor?

Yes it is a viable tactic, I do this frequently just in case I kill the vehicle because I can not consolidate.

jbunny wrote: As stated after my assault, on the next player turn my Dread was Immobilized, and not able to move away from the Chimera. The Dread had LOS to the Guard models, that was not in dispute by myself, my opponent, or the judge. Cover would have been given if not for the fact that the weapon used was a flamer.

The dread was permanently stuck next to the stuck Chimera, so every player turn the Dread had to attack the Chimera because it was in B2B contact. The only issue was could the Dread fire at the guard and then attack (not assault) the Chimera.

Yes, as long as the flamer could see at least one of the guardsmen, he could fire at it.

The dread could attack the Chimera as well, since it was still in B2B with it. Furthermore if the dread was in B2B with an immobile vehicle, and was assaulted he could still allocate some attacks to the vehicle.

jbunny wrote:RRRRRR GG
RRRRRR GG
RRRRRR GG
DD GGG


OK So R is the outline of the Chimera, G is the different Guard models, and DD is the Dread. As stated after my assault, on the next player turn my Dread was Immobilized, and not able to move away from the Chimera. The Dread had LOS to the Guard models, that was not in dispute by myself, my opponent, or the judge. Cover would have been given if not for the fact that the weapon used was a flamer.

The dread was permanently stuck next to the stuck Chimera, so every player turn the Dread had to attack the Chimera because it was in B2B contact. The only issue was could the Dread fire at the guard and then attack (not assault) the Chimera.

The only remaining possible problem I can see is if the Chimera hull blocked LOS from the flamer. Remember that Walkers don't draw LOS from their eyes (or "eye-like area") the way infantry do. Like all vehicles, they draw LOS from the barrel of their weapon, which must point at the enemy (with a virtual arc of 45 degrees for walker weapons). With all that in account, if the flamer could trace LOS to at least one model in the infantry unit, than the shot is good.

Thanks guys