Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi warriors of the fantasy realm!
I have played around 4 games in total with my vampire counts army having moved from 40k and loving every minute of it! I was thinking tonight about how fair (certainly with respect to 40k) the armies are with their respective pros and cons - not the general power creep in 40k. And I hit upon the fact that each army I have faced Skaven, dark elves etc. I know relatively well their good and bad points but I don't really know any others and have heard things.
So what I'm asking is could you tell me what the general pros and cons of each army is? I would love to find out for myself but I am having rather a difficult time in finding fantasy players :( I am also considering another army to collect so that my brother in law might play and another army gives me another option!
Thanks for any help received!
Andy

I can't answer for all armies, but here are some pros and cons with Orcs and Goblins -

Pros - Cheap infantry and Orcs are underpriced*. They also have some of the biggest heavy hitters in the game, such as Fanatics, Black Orcs, Savage Orc Big'Uns and Mangler Squigs.
They're also tons of fun to play and usually give both players a good laugh. Also, almost every single unit in Orcs and Goblins are worth to field.

Cons - Random, random and random. Fanatics can crush your own units, Animosity can cripple your boys over and over again and Orcs and Goblins are forced to play with their own spell Lores. While the Big and Little Waaaghs! are good, they cannot really compete with some of the bigger lores. To be honest, the only spell I REALLY like is 'Ere we go! (allows you to re-roll to Hit dice) and The Hand of Gork.

However, if you really enjoy playing Orcs and Goblins you don't really mind that if they're random. I go with the mindset that I know that SOMETHING will happen, but I also know that my Orcs are kinda underpriced for what they do. I mean, only 7 points for Light Armour, S4 in the first round of combat, Additional Hand Weapon and T4 - that's just amazing. Add the spell 'Ere we go! and most stuff will fall down.
I've had 28 Orc Boyz wiping out 18 Chaos Warriors before in one turn thanks to 'Ere we go, so they should be feared!



*They still suffer from animosity and I2 so the point cost is kinda right anyway.

Well I can certainly tell you about my own army, the Orcs and Goblins! I'm surprised if you haven't played at all against us greenskins, this army seems to be one of the most popular. Anyway...
Cons:
Low Initiative. Almost all units have Initiative 2 which means you will almost without exception be the last to strike.
Low leadership! This is especially true for Goblins (Ld 6) and even more so for Night Goblins (Ld 5) which trade 1 Ld in order to be one of the few units in the army book that has Initiative 3...
Animosity. This is a special rule Orcs and Goblins have which has the potential of bringing some units to a halt or making them charge ahead! In the current book it is not so much of a problem as in the previous one.
Pros:
Lots and lots and lots of models! The OnG general (or Warboss as orcs would say) can almost without exception count on outnumbering their enemy at least 2:1. I can only think of Skaven that can match the sheer number of models on the board.
Orcs have relatively high strength and toughness, and its not hard to find them in horde formation as their points cost is rather low. Goblins are not as strong or durable but at 3 points each you can imagine what I'm talking about when I'm speaking about strength in numbers...
Huge amount of options. You can go for an all Goblins and Night Goblins army (Fanatics are nightmare for my opponents!) or for hard-hitting Orc units. Toss in a Giant and an Arachnarok Spider for some extra hitting power! And Trolls!
Cheap war machines. The bolt thrower anyway (35 pts) it does roll on the misfire chart though.

Maybe I can think of more stuff but the most important thing about OnG is this: They are FUN! Both to play with and against, they are the most interesting army in my humble opinion.
They have a lot of totally random things like random movement, random special attacks (see Giant) and you can never know what will happen next! I recommend them, if you're thinking of starting a second army! Glad to see more players in Fantasy!!!

Hi and thanks! Yep I'm afraid you will be surprised I haven't fought against orks and goblins!! My vamps have faced daemons, skaven, dark elves and high elves!
Thanks hugely for the greenskin input and since moving over to WHF, I wished I did it years ago!!!!

Muppas wrote:
I've had 28 Orc Boyz wiping out 18 Chaos Warriors before in one turn thanks to 'Ere we go, so they should be feared!

Hey, last Thursday my opponent rammed 10 Chaos Knights on my Mangler Squig thinking it's for the best to have that thing stopped before it went berserk. 7 dead Chaos Knights later he wasn't so sure of his strategy anymore.

angelshade00 wrote:

Muppas wrote:
I've had 28 Orc Boyz wiping out 18 Chaos Warriors before in one turn thanks to 'Ere we go, so they should be feared!

Hey, last Thursday my opponent rammed 10 Chaos Knights on my Mangler Squig thinking it's for the best to have that thing stopped before it went berserk. 7 dead Chaos Knights later he wasn't so sure of his strategy anymore.

Priceless!

Wood Elves:
Pros - Manouverability, no army does it better
- Arguably the best anti-magic item in the game
- Accurate shooting
Cons - Limited list options
- Fragile
- Expensive

Krellnus wrote:Wood Elves:
Pros - Manouverability, no army does it better
- Arguably the best anti-magic item in the game
- Accurate shooting
Cons - Limited list options
- Fragile
- Expensive

Only played against them once, long ago (7th edition). I've heard they are really struggling in 8th. Is it true?

I will post my opinions on VC, WOC, Beastmen and EMpire when I wake up a lil bit

Ogre kingdoms!

Pros:
Powerful Units with space marine stats and 3 wounds each! All monstrous infantry! Ogre's are only slightly slower than HORSES!
Easy to paint (Numbers not so important)
Each ogre is as powerful as a chariot and cause impact strikes on the charge!
Good support magic!
Our cannon is multifunctional, a powerful chariot and cannon combination with S10 grapeshot
Maneaters being customizable to the point they have quite a few USR, such as being able to take sniper and poison! Stubborn and Scouts! While being able to mix and match weaponry, want AHW with GW behind them? Go nuts! Double pistol everywhere? Fine too!
Our combat champion is still one of the best at tearing apart units
Our mages are the only other one to be able to take armor! (Suck it chaos)
Cheap Models in Gnobblars
Our ranged units can fire D6 multiple shots at S4 with armor piercing, which ignores To Hit for moving, and for multiple shots!
Powerful Cavalry, Run the mournfangs at a units flank and see it cry out in pain.
Nearly every unit causes fear!
Good support monsters

Cons:
Very Low Model Count, the basic ogre is 30 points without gear!
Low initiative: We can be hit by orcs!
Have to take our special magic on a mage before taking another, less versatile
Our general armor save is about a 5+
Lack of Magic weapons in the army, and the unit it's on is pretty bad.
Initiative Save or Die spells make ogres cry
Special characters suck, even by most armies standards.
Did I mention that ogre's are very expensive?

Overall: A very small, but powerful army if played right. You will never outnumber anything and you will hardly ever defend from anything with an armor save, but you'll defend on a T4 with 3 wounds, not to mention being MI means your second row hits with all of its attacks. Our spells are pretty good defensively and offensively, at least 4/6 of the spells are very useful to have.

angelshade00 wrote:

Krellnus wrote:Wood Elves:
Pros - Manouverability, no army does it better
- Arguably the best anti-magic item in the game
- Accurate shooting
Cons - Limited list options
- Fragile
- Expensive

Only played against them once, long ago (7th edition). I've heard they are really struggling in 8th. Is it true?

Really depends on opponent as they have expensive units, most of them skirmishers, with the cheapest model that can rank up to even think of denying steadfast is 12pts :(
Although since most lists are magic heavy, the MSU style of Wood Elves goes considerable way of negating magic "Oh, you wanna dweller's my archers? Oh well, only a 10 man unit"

Like others, won't be breaking down ALL of the armies (however, http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/2011/05/warhammer-fantasy-power-rankings.html and http://diceofdoom.com/blog/2010/07/how-8th-edition-warhammer-fantasy-effects-your-armies/ are good quick summaries of all 15 armies, albeit a bit outdated - 1st one is before VC/Ogre update. 2nd link is from before VC/Ogre/TK update, but both are generally accurate), but I'll give a pros and cons for the 2 armies I've played as

Dwarfs
pros
- hard to break
- access to a lot of GWs (even on their scouts!)
- great artillery. And I mean GREAT (assuming they dont blow up of course!), good shooting troops too.
- great magic defense
- runes are great for flexibility and sometimes cheaper than their magic item counterparts
cons
- slooowww
- no magic
- arty can still blow up on ya...

Dark Elves
pros
- great magic, arguably the best in the game
- lots of hammers
- great monsters, arguably the best in the game
- Hates everyone
- great shooting, arguably the best in the game
- fast
cons
- a little breeze can kill them
- low on anvils

angelshade00 wrote:
Only played against them once, long ago (7th edition). I've heard they are really struggling in 8th. Is it true?

its funny, on the internet I've always read how bad WE are in 8th and that the tree lists are the only way to compete, but I've really only seen them succeed - Final 6 in 2011 Ard Boyz, 2nd place I think at the Bay Area Open, etc. There's a local WE player that is REALLY good. I'm almost ashamed (in a proud Dwarf kinda way) to say my Dwarfs have never beat him out of 3 matches...(my DE never even played him). But, if you do look at their army book, they do seem a bit gimped...

New to WoC but from what I know about them I can tell you this.

Pro's
Very good core unit with a standard 4+ save for the warriors which can be a 3+ with a shield. WS 5 Str 4 T 4 I 5 is some good stats.

Wizards are also armored in the same 4+.

Marauders are only 4 points a piece for a good cheap unit, give them GW's for 1 point and you have 5p str 5 models.

Cons

Only shooting is magic and the Hell Cannon...

Chaos spawn are nothing to write home about.

Empire

Wonderful war machines, backed up by solid missile troops
Really cheap core troops
Full range magic lores, allowing the player to adapt to his playing style, or totally change how his army plays on a whim
Has excellent variety, with units from every type available (except monstrous)
Warrior priests add depth to the offensive and defensive elements of the magic phase, while giving individual units an excellent boost
Cheap characters allow you to take a full range of characters while leaving plenty of points for everything else


Weaknesses
Mediocre characters. Empire characters are good for their points, but they are cheap for a reason and their strengths are generally in how they support their armies, not in their ability to deal destruction or take on enemy characters.
Feeble infantry. Even the hardiest of Empire infantry is T3. You'll get used to picking up large piles of troops from a single round of combat, not too different from a skaven player.
Lack of elite units. While greatswords are good at what they do, what they do is pretty modest compared to the really elite troops of the Old World. You'll learn to rely on crippling enemy units with ranged attacks, mobbing them with mutliple units, or just drowning them in piles of human bodies.

Beastmen:

Pros-
- Outstanding brawlers in a fight. High WS, T and A along with a semi-permanent Hatred means you can go hoof-to-toe with almost anyone.
- Fast! The army is built around M5-7 with lots of skirmishers and individual monsters
- Magic overload. Beastmen are capable of throwing out a staggering amount of spells each turn. While magic defense is nothing special, you will normally have 10-12 power dice compared with 4-7 dispels.
- Excellent range of magic. Tying into the point above, Beastmen tend to use their millions of dice to throw lots of Hexes and Augments about. Lots of smaller buffs rather than a single boom.
- Surprisingly cheap. Anything you can't fight one-on-one (White Lions, Chaos Warriors etc) you will outnumber 2:1. The perfect balance between power and cost.
- Magic items. A minor point perhaps, but we have a great range of fun items to plug holes in the list. Gnarled Hide, Chalice of Dark Rain, Ramhorn and the Brass Cleaver, among others.

Cons-
- No ranged potential at all. Our shooting is restricted to Shortbows and a 275pt Stone thrower. We also lack magic missiles in our Lore options. If you want to kill things, you're doing it up close.
- No armour. T4 is your only true protection
- Lots of 'bad' choices. Unfortunately competitive lists tend to look very similar and so certain units won't be seen very often.




Tomb Kings

Pros-
- Fear and Unbreakable on everything. You'll never get an unlucky break test and you can very happily charge into a fight to hold the enemy down, with the intention of flanking them next turn.
- Excellent shooting. Our archers are cheap, reliable, and surprisingly accurate when modifiers are taken into account. A single archer is close enough to an Elf at long range, except at half the cost and with the potential for 2 shots.
- One of the few armies to include 'all-rounders'. Units like Ushabti, Hierotitans, Colossi and Chariots are all capable of fighting up close or at range. You can ensure that your units are always getting some use, regardless of what your opponent is doing.
- Some outstanding units. Necropolis Knights, Warsphinx, Chariots and Hierotitans are all excellent for different reasons.
- Feel like a mastermind. Might seem silly, but you'll feel really clever every time you field them. You need to plan your turns in advance and make sure every unit is where it needs to be. Its like playing chess.

Cons-
- Unstable can be worse than break tests, particularly when performing a multiple combat. Nobody likes losing a Sphinx because some skeletons were killed.
- Lack of proper combat units. While Tomb Guard and Knights might be 'good enough' for the enemy Core units, you will never be able to stand up to Chosen. Some units simply have to be killed at range.
- Many units have bad matchups. You don't send a Sphinx into a unit with Poison, or as a supporting charge. You don't send Knights into anything S5+. Play smart or get hammered.
- Mediocre Lore. Nehekhara isn't completely awful but it's certainly not Light/Death good. You will unfortunately have to waste your best wizard with this.

Lizardmen

Pros:
Slann is the best caster in the game, and can be kitted out for insane Ld abilities as well.

Chameleon Skinks are a cheap yet effective way to take down monsters and war machines, as well as messing with enemy movement.

Saurus are decent medium infantry. Decent T, and saves, lots of attacks and excellent Ld due to cold blooded.

Salamanders eat infantry alive.

Cons:

Must choose between Initiative and toughness. Saurus only have I1, Skinks only have T2.

Weapon skill is low for the amount of points you pay for your troops.

Stegadons are extremely vulnerable to templates, due to the multiple T2 riders all being hit.

Dark Elves

Pros:

Excellent combat specialists, they aren't as top of the line as High Elves, but Black Guard and Witch Elves offer a lot of excellent infantry options for specific roles.

Shooting, repeater crossbows give you great volume of fire at a pretty solid range. The Armor Piercing is a nice kicker too.

Speed and maneuverability, between infantry with an above average M and loads of flyers, cavalry and monsters, Dark Elves can easily dominate the movement phase.

Magic, while lacking the full variety of lores, they make a lot of power happen with their magic phase. Plus they have no restrictions on dice per spell, allowing you to really hammer out the one critical spell if needed and you can embrace the risk of the miscast.

Monsters, Dark Elves have a frontrunner for the best monster in the War Hydra. Super cheap for its ability, and very tough to kill by conventional means, one or two are a huge, cheap threat for Dark Elves.

Cons:

Fragile, there are almost no models with T4 apart from monsters, and even then the Dark Elves do not have a lot of armor. Their elite defensive infantry, Black Guard, only have heavy armor. You will lose models to weak attacks.

Elite, they are expensive points-wise and every loss you suffer will be felt. Combined with how fragile they are, Dark Elves are an army that you have to wield with precision and deftness, not just bash stuff.

Risk vs Reward playstyle, Dark Elves are an army that has to be aggressive to thrive, as their low T means that they stand little chance against an overly aggressive or better shooting army. While this isn't a pure con, it does mean that you need to be comfortable with how every unit works, and where each one works best (as well as all the Dark Elf rules and WHFB rules) in order to get the most out of them.

Not to hijack your thread but could someone tell me the pros and cons of Ogres and Skaven and if rat ogres are comparable to ogres in usefulness.

No Ogres and Rat Ogres are nothing alike in usefulness.



Ogres

Pro's:

Low model count,
cheapest army to build,
easy to paint,
easy conversions,
moderatly powerful army book,
variety of army builds,
everything has a model,
awsome model range

Cons:

Low model count,
poor inititive makes them vulnerable to uber spells,
poor Weapon Skill,
combat characters are lackluster,
Special Characters all various shades of suck,

Bretonnia

Pros:
Fast Moving
Strong Chargers
Decent Spammable Shooting
Good Armor Saves
Decent Magic

Cons:
If the Kinghts are charged they will generally lose since they are then S and T 3
Low Leadership Peasantry, require Knightly Babysitters
Magical Powerhouses can cause some real problems for them.

Hi Guys!
This is absolutely fantastic! Thanks sooooooooo much to all for putting their opinions across. This reaffirms my understanding of the game, it's just such a pity that 40k takes a lot of presidence in my local club! Please continue with more - all information gratefully received!

baldrat61 wrote:Not to hijack your thread but could someone tell me the pros and cons of Ogres and Skaven and if rat ogres are comparable to ogres in usefulness.

No worries about this!!!!! I hope this thread helps others as much as it is helping me!

Cheers
Andy