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So I really like how banshees look, they're rocking imo, and I'd love to paint some. But being pragmatic, I'd also like to get enough of an eldar army to have some fun matches against my friend. He runs GK.

My list would probably be something like:

500
farseer
guide
warding
spear

10 banshees
exarch, mirror swords, war shout

10 guardians
missile launcher

5 rangers
pathfinders

I like most of these choices, the model I think runs second to the banshee model is the ranger one, and I really like the ap rules on pathfinders (plus the stealth bonus).

My friend would run, probably, two squads of 5 strike squads in razorbacks, the razors with twin linked hbolters and psybolt. Prob 2 inquisitors to fill out the 6 slots in the razorback too. Then some kind of dreadnaught, either with a flamer, or a lot of psybolt shots from an assault cannon or summat.

So, think I stand a chance? we're both about the same skill level tactics wise, if I'm being honest he's probably better, but not completely outclassing me.

I'd be open to swapping the rangers for another squad of guardians if i need more anti-av, the only thing i really want to keep in the list happens to be the banshees- i was going to stick the farseer with them and he would give the unit the spear's anti-mech power, plus 'guide' seems really useful for WS4 chaps.

ALSO! Almost forgot, heh, do "runes of warding" effect force sword rolls?

thx for reading

If I remember right, runes of warding to affect force swords rolls. Though runes of warding are better at negating hammerhand IMO.
If your friend is running heavy bolters on razorbacks, youmay have a few problems though, since a turn or two worth of shooting will destroy your banshees.
Also, guide only affects shooting attacks. With banshees, you want doom.

I think you need to cut back on the banshees. 10 in a 500 point game is brutal on the charge, but not if everything stays in their boxes. If he's bringing all razorbacks and a dread, you have 1 gun which can pop them. And its on a bs3 unit.

Add more anti-tank, keep warding, and change guide to doom, since it effects an enemy and more of your units can benefit from it.

Or consider a Winged Autarch with a fusion gun!

Metal Boxes may actually not be a huge problem. My friend who plays purifier spam has explained to me that after 2 squads of purifiers and Crowe, he wouldn't have enough points for a psybolt razor. Especially if he goes for hammers in the squads. You'll still be staring down the barrel of 4 psycannons... but at least there won't be much armour. This of course is not true against Stikes or Henchmen builds, so it would still be a good idea to up your anti tank.

Farseer looks fine
Banshees- Take the executioner instead of mirror swords, s5 will help alot since you don't have doom. Truthfully Harlequins would do better since Viel of Tears protects them from ranged fire, but as you said you love the Banshee models.
Your guardians look great, infact I'd take 2 squads. you want anti tank shots, and 2 guardians will help alot. Give one a Scatter Laser, Scatter Lasers are actually more likely to pop av11. It should also free up enough points to squeeze in a Warlock with Embolden. The leadership bonus provided by Embolden can be a lifesaver in objective games.

You can then squeeze the Farseer in the Guardian squad without embolden, and that way you either have leadership 10 or leadership 8 with re rolls to make sure you stick around and keep shooting.

My list would probably be something like:

500
farseer
guide
warding
spear

10 banshees
exarch, mirror swords, war shout

10 guardians
missile launcher

5 rangers
pathfinders

Not trying to be rude, but against this list which you've highlighted:

My friend would run, probably, two squads of 5 strike squads in razorbacks, the razors with twin linked hbolters and psybolt. Prob 2 inquisitors to fill out the 6 slots in the razorback too. Then some kind of dreadnaught, either with a flamer, or a lot of psybolt shots from an assault cannon or summat.

Or something like I would run.

HQ: Inquisitor 25

Troops
GKSS (5) psycannon, razorback(w/psybolt) 160
GKSS (6) psycannon, razorback(w/psybolt) 180

Heavy
Dreadnought TLACx2 psybolt 135

Total 500

This list would totally dominate your list, you would have no ability to pop armour except for one bs3 missile launcher. If you run the math the chances are you there is almost no way for you to destroy all the armour in one game. Your banshees and guardians will most likely be dead by turn 3 and you won't be able to do anything.

Overall, I am not trying to be rude I am just giving you the facts. I play against my eldar friend a lot, I have played about 10 games against his eldar with my GK (we own other armies too) and I have never lost to his eldar with my GK. He is not a bad player by any means, but Eldar seriously out-dated and if they want to be competitive they need to mech up.

Your best chance in 500 points against GK would be to probably have 1 wave serpent and 1 falcon, both of them have transport capabilities and the falcon will give you a lot more anti-tank presence. Even if your friend were to do a foot list such as:

HQ inquisitor psychostroke grenades 40

Troops
GKSS (10) 2x psycannon 220
Purifiers (9) 2xpsycannon 236

Total 496

This list will still wreck your foot list, any good general would never let your banshees even get close. One round of shooting from either squad will kill almost all 10 banshees.

So lastly, I would just like to say, if you want to field 10 banshees you need to do it in a higher points list and give them a transport, otherwise they will never live to see combat.

If you want a chance to beat your friend in 500 points against GK, I'd advise taking at least two vehicles and put your men inside. 10 Dire avengers with bladestorm in a wave serpent with eldar missile launcher is a good purchase, and are pretty effective against power armour marines (which in terms of resilience, that's all purifiers and gkss are).

I would ditch the Rangers in all honesty. I have only seen them perform so-so for how many points you spend, and at worst horribly. Unless you know he is gonna have a MC leave them at home. I would go dual Guardians, or preferable add some Jetbikes in there. Those guys can really annoy people, since they can jump behind cover in the assault phase. Their Shuriken Cannon also can pop those Rhino's, though it's not great odds I usually pop 1 Rhino a game with them (sometimes not by turn 5 though).

I would drop the spear off the Farseer. Keep Warding for sure. Really you desperately need a Transport, if not 2. You are going to get eaten alive before you get to him if the enemy knows how to play at all. Additionally, what do you plan on Guiding? Doom may be better for Focus Fire and because Banshees (with making the enemy WS 1) probably don't need guide, and would benefit from rerolls on their crappy str 3 to wound.

ditch the rangers... kinda figured it would come to that... how does a transport+guardians and then however many jetbikes i can fit into the points I have free? or should the banshees get the transport over the guardians?

doom, sounds like a good switch from the comments, but why drop the spear? 3 pts and I don't lose anything, do I?

Banshees need a transport or they get absolutely slaughtered.

Viti wrote:ditch the rangers... kinda figured it would come to that... how does a transport+guardians and then however many jetbikes i can fit into the points I have free? or should the banshees get the transport over the guardians?

doom, sounds like a good switch from the comments, but why drop the spear? 3 pts and I don't lose anything, do I?

Jetbikes are 21 a piece, with every 3rd having a 10 point Shuriken Cannon upgrade. You do lose something with the spear, you lose an equal quality weapon vs Infantry and you lose +1 attack in melee because you are now using a 2 handed weapon. You want that extra attack, trust me. Plus, it barely adds anything but the ability to pop a tank from 12" away. Spears are meant for one place and one place alone, that is on the back of a Jetbike. You are not at the point level to run Warlocks/Farseers on Jetbikes IMHO, so ditch the spear.

dabupp wrote:

Viti wrote:ditch the rangers... kinda figured it would come to that... how does a transport+guardians and then however many jetbikes i can fit into the points I have free? or should the banshees get the transport over the guardians?

doom, sounds like a good switch from the comments, but why drop the spear? 3 pts and I don't lose anything, do I?

Jetbikes are 21 a piece, with every 3rd having a 10 point Shuriken Cannon upgrade. You do lose something with the spear, you lose an equal quality weapon vs Infantry and you lose +1 attack in melee because you are now using a 2 handed weapon. You want that extra attack, trust me. Plus, it barely adds anything but the ability to pop a tank from 12" away. Spears are meant for one place and one place alone, that is on the back of a Jetbike. You are not at the point level to run Warlocks/Farseers on Jetbikes IMHO, so ditch the spear.

I disagree with this wholly. With T3 I always have my Farseer in the back of combat so he can't get into combat and get hit. Singing spear is definitely worth it, it just depends on what you do. With my seer council he's better with it, with yours it might be better without it. I really think it's usefulness is more of an opinion than a black and white fact.

Rangers sucking is a fact though

Singing Spear is interesting on a farseer, if you've got the 3 points. Farseers tend to suck terribly in close combat anyway, and having that shooting attack can come in handy, especially with bs5. But its more of a, oh hey what should I do with 3 points than anything else, not necessary by any means, and not worth it if you don't have the 3 points. So don't drop stuff for it.

Banshees really need a transport or you are going to get cut to pieces. Harlequins benefit from ignoring terrain completely, and having veil of tears protect them from ranged attacks. Banshees without these advantages are not feasible on foot.

I usually wouldn't recommend even playing banshees until higher point games, since their main benefit is as a threat bubble around an otherwise vulnerable to close combat fleet of Eldar Skimmers- read 1850-2000 point levels. But since you are starting Eldar because you like the Banshee levels I totally get including them (same with my Chaos Lord, I started Chaos because I liked my conversion on him, it would be stupid not to play him!)

So first thing is you need a Farseer with Doom. Doom actually helps your Banshees deal with s3, and you seriously need it to truly threaten enemy units in close combat. The other thing you need is a Wave Serpent for your Banshees and enough Banshees to make an effective splash into your enemy (at least 8). Then you use the rest of your points to get the most cost effective troops possible (read jetbikes). Basically the list would look something like this

(83) Farseer- Doom, Spear
(265) 8 Banshees- Exarch, Executioner, Acrobatic : Wave Serpent- tl Shuriken Cannon, (Stones or Extra Cannon)
(76) 3 Guardian Jetbikes- Shuriken Cannon
(76) 3 Guardian Jetbikes- Shuriken Cannon

I'll go ahead and say right now that its not the most competitive army available, and it will have trouble dealing with enemy armour to be sure. But its the best you are going to do to showcase Banshees at this low of a point level.

If you can get a good charge off, you can really send enemy marines and terminators reeling!

I think the banshees need a transport, also at 500 points you will not need 10 or even 8 banshees, i would do Akeans list with the following changes.

Farseer- runes of warding, and doom -95
6x Banshees w/exarch, executioner, and acrobatic-123
+Waveserpent, TL scatter laser , star engines -130
3x jetbikes w/cannon -76
3x jetbikes w/cannon-76

Total 500

So heres what i changed from Akeans list and why. I dont think the farseer really needs the singing spear as he will be accompanying the banshees and either remaining in the serpent when the banshees disembark, or assaulting with them. Runes of warding are always a good purchase but amazing vs grey knights as it causes them to fail their psychic tests much more often and even kill themselves haha.

Next the banshees should be assaulting a squad not much bigger than themselves if not smaller, so going first with power weapons vs a doomed squad should be more than enough to kill them without fear of counter attack. If however they are counter assaulted they have counter attack (also note banshees are I10 in the first round of an assault, not necessarily one they initiated) which basically puts them as if they had assaulted themselves.

The wave serpent has a scatter laser because i had extra points, but also comes with the benefits of longer range and more shots. The starengines are in case you want to play balls in and assault second turn (if you catch a squad out of its transport or whatever.) flat out 24, scoot 12 and next turn the banshees disembark before the transport moves, fleet and assault.

The bikes remain unchanged as they are a good choice.

Your biggest problem will be his rhinos, my best advice is this, sit back and shoot with your superior number of str 6 shots until his vehicles are wrecked (in which case the game will be over shortly) if you need more than str 6 dont be afraid to ram with your wave serpent flat out (can get up to str 10!!) not only does it damage/ wreck their vehicles it also gets your banshees up the board.

Damn i like this list, think i may have to play it now. Hope it helps atleast gives you some ideas!

I prefer Striking Scorpions to Banshees, the presence of a Power Claw or Biting Blade helps with the problem of popping transports, and the 3+ save and Infiltrate ensures they'll actually make it to close combat.

Thanks a ton akaean and toaster! Those lists really help, and I'm starting to warm up to the idea of jet bikes.

I understand this list doesn't come off as very competitive but I really appreciate the work you've done to help me out.

Also; could I proxy banshees as harlequins? Would that work better game play wise at 500? I really don't like the look of the harlequin models, but in-game I know my friends would at least let me proxy them, even if a tourney wouldn't (not much xp with tourneys- read: none).

If it turns out this list is as fun as I expect it to be (either using one of your lists or playing around with a harley-proxy list) would you have any advice of what to expand into at 750 list (escalation style)?

Are warp spiders any good? Wraithguard?

I've got the first set of banshees from my FLGS sitting here letting the glue set while I'm looking at the eldar product list admiring. All the basic troops look very cool too, I feel I should add, so if your only advice is to pick up more troops I'm fine with that.

At 750 points, I would add a wave serpent for the banshees and start to get some more anti-tank into the list.

You could use Harlies in a 500 point list though at that pointage you would have the drop the wave serpent and get a shadow seer for the unit. Proxying is no problem as long as its ok with your opponents (of course tournaments are different). But you could make it work, though with doom on the unit being assaulted you shouldnt have any problems with banshees and i almost like the power weapons better.

Wraithguard on the other hand are too expensive points wise in a 500 point list, though you could include a wraithlord if you wanted (considerably more fun anyways).

I love warp spiders, they're faster jet pack infantry. they're guns are str 6, and they have a 3+ armor save, whats not to like? Fit in perfect with jetbikes as well.

Lastly an escalation list to 750 using the same base as before would probably go like this

Farseer- runes of warding, and doom -95
6x Banshees w/exarch, executioner, and acrobatic-123
+Waveserpent, TL scatter laser , star engines -130
4x jetbikes w/cannon -98
4x jetbikes w/cannon-98
5x Fire Dragons -80
+Waveserpent, TL scatter laser, spirit stones -125

Total: 749

Basically the same as before but now you have some serious anti tank, as well as another tank that can contest an transport your units. 2 more jetbikes add a couple more shots to the army. Its still not super competitive, but it should serve you well in a more casual environment, and i think could hold its own against most lists if played right.

@AnomanderRake
Scorpions are good vs anything with a crappy armor save and if there are now power weapons present. however just try running scorpions vs grey knight wielding halberds, yeah its not nice. My point is you cant discount either unit as they both have their roles and both have a role in my army.

Hope this helps Viti!

I've been trying to get a solid 500 point eldar list down recently too.
Haven't found anything that really hits my sweet spot yet. I like the double bikes as troops.

I was thinking maybe:
Farseer, warding, doom, spear
10xGuardians, scatter laser
3xG-jetbikes, cannon
3xShining spears
Nightspinner.

Gives me an anchor, two fast units, and a tank to mess with opponents movement and take down hordes. I could also drop the spears for more G-jetbikes, but I'm afraid of not having any CC prowess. Possibly move some points around and drop the spears for a bike autarch. Same amount of potential damage, more likely to get insta'd.
Thoughts?

@Racta

i dont think the night spinner is a good choice at this points level, i think the fire prism (same amount of points) would be better as it offers some anti tank from range and can still deal with hordes, granted the nighspinner also slows them down but i guess it comes to preference and i think the prism is more versatile at lower points value. The Shinning spears are ok but they really need an exarch for the hit an run.

One thing to say about your list in general (speaking from experience) is that your anchor isnt that great of a thing when the rest of your army is mobile, what usually ends up happening is you end up protecting your anchor from being eaten. i would take 3 more jet bikes and axe those guardians, also take a bike for the Farseer if you can. Then you have a mobile force that can move as one (remember the key to eldar is co-ordination)

Good points. I have a love affair with the night spinner. Especially over the fire prism, because i scatter off with the prism so many times. The spinner gives me that reroll, and the ability to slow my enemies movement, ensuring that I have advantage in that. As a personal preference, I'll be keeping the spinner in, but I agree that the prisms anti-tank would help.

The spears are iffy. I like the movement, and the potential hitting power. You are right though, they can't hold up against anything with more than 5 guys in the squad. Might not be a problem in 500 point games though. The exarch is too many points in eldar 500.

I tried fitting in the farseer on a bike, but the points weren't there. Swapping the guardians to bikes gives me 9, and then I'd need to get 21 more, I'd have to drop doom and warding to pull it off. And then why even have the farseer? If i went the other way and dropped the spears, I'd lack an assault unit and I don't like playing without one.