Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys! Gonna be a long post so feel free to skip to the tldr.

Now, my biggest question regarding army play style is concerned with 'Nid shooting...Is it worthwhile? And on which units is it worthwhile? As a CC army, the plan is to have melee as the focus, with shooting to provide support. I'm just not exactly sure whether I should give the gunman roles to the little fries or the big boys. It seems kind of a waste to load up HTs and 'fexes with guns, but some of the options seem decent enough too.

Also, is a winged army worthwhile? It makes sense to me that an assault based force would benefit from greater speed, but is the cost worth it? Hell, are gargoyles worth it? It seems that winged armies are either all-out or sprinkled in (at higher point games which I'm not exactly sure I want to do yet).

Lastly, is the battleforce worth it? In what order should I make my purchases? I'm thinking about buying gants to practice on before moving on to big bads, but I'm not sure which gant variant to go for first, and I'm not exactly sure which big bads to consider yet!

A 750 list I was looking at (no exact numbers yet, as this is a very loose frame of what I THINK would be okay)...

Warriors with Deathspitters (Prime with Deathspitter and pair of boneswords will be HQ until tyrants at a greater point value)
A few (2-3) Hive Guards for vehicles
Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs (WTF I just realized 'gant' is spelled differently for Termies and Hormies)
A heavy support of some sort. I really wanted to include a big bad.

It seems a bit shooty to me, but again, I have minimal first hand experience. It keeps in line with my plan to have melee as the focus with shooting to support, but I'm not too sure about whether or not I should use termagants and change around the stronger troops to be more melee-oriented. I also kind of wanted to possibly make a hive tyrant work

TLDR;
Is 'Nid shooting worthwhile?
Are winged armies worthwhile?
Battleforce vs buying individual kits?
What 750 pt list would you recommend? Try to avoid pure swarm lists if possible. In 750 I was thinking maybe 20-30 gants (but not much more or less)?

I think at least one battleforce to start with is always an excellent idea.

Even if you head almost exclusively for the "big guys", you'll almost certainly use the Termagants with a Tervigon. Genestealers are always nice to set at a flank and the three Warriors will also be a mainstay of a "big Nid" list. You might eventually drop the Hormagaunts if you take the "non-swarm" idea to its conclusion, but they're virtually free with the Battleforce discount, a good place to practice your colour-scheme and still quite useful to field by and large if you don't go all-out "big Nids" right away.

I'd definitely start out with a battleforce. This will give you a great core for your army to begin with. After that a Terivgon or Trygon (Prime) would make a solid addition and provide some muscle for your force. The Trygon is a good option to melee tanks in lieu of shooting them, while the Terivgon will help support Termagant/Genestealer broods and make your core army more resistant to melee.

Winged armies take some skill to play well. You need to use Gargoyles to shield the more valuable units like Shrikes / Harpies / HT's. It generally doesn't work so well in smaller point games as you will end up lacking scoring units. I'd save the fliers for 1500+ pt games in the future, when you have more experience.

As for nid shooting... most options here are either overcosted point-wise, or expensive cash-wise. Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes are generally considered not points-effective in a shooting role. Hive Guard and Zoanthropes are excellent at anti-vehicle (light transport / heavy armour respectively) but as they are Finecast they'll be hard on your wallet. If you're tight on cash, your best option is to melee vehicles using flexible units like Trygons or outflanking 'stealers with adrenal glands.

Zweischneid wrote:You might eventually drop the Hormagaunts if you take the "non-swarm" idea to its conclusion, but they're virtually free with the Battleforce discount, a good place to practice your colour-scheme and still quite useful to field by and large if you don't go all-out "big Nids" right away.

I personally find that I ony field Hormaguants in large broods (say 20+) and in larger games, where it doesn't matter so much if they're gunned down. In a small army you may want to consider giving them the spare guns to make more Termies. A combination of fleshborer and devilguant broods backed by a Terivgon can be very solid.

Wow thanks for the fast replies! I significantly shortened down the first post, as it was quite verbose.

I worded that bit about big nids poorly. I meant that I don't want a pure swarm list, but rather a mixture of swarms with a focus on big bads.

angerpowered wrote:Is 'Nid shooting worthwhile?

Short answer: Very!. If going with a Devigant list for example, lets say a unit of ten, thats 30 shots of 18" range with devourers. not to be sniffed at, strap them to a warrior, you have both combat effectiveness and long range firepower.

angerpowered wrote:Are winged armies worthwhile?

unfortunately you can't have completely flying armies, but for what you can have, imo, yes they are. Flyrants are brilliant tank-hunters, and great for fast moving synapse. Shrikes, have a 5+sv so not great on that front, but, should you kit them out for combat and fly them in cover of Gargoyles, you have a devestating assault unit. and Gargoyles are pretty much a meat shield, but can lay down some good covering fire.

angerpowered wrote:Battleforce vs buying individual kits?

Personally individual kits. largely as you can pick and chose at will what you want/need. remember the battleforce is dictating to you what you buy, single boxes dont. sure you save money with the batle force, but, in the long run you tend to regret it from experience.

angerpowered wrote:What 750 pt list would you recommend? Try to avoid pure swarm lists if possible. In 750 I was thinking maybe 20-30 gants (but not much more or less)?

Personally again, there are two things in a Nid list that should always be taken (apart from the obvious synapse creatures). They are a Tervigon (kitted out with AG, TS and Catalyst) and Hive guard. if you take a Tervigon as either your HQ or a troops choice, you have quick numbers bolstering and buffs from one 195pt model, which isnt bad. Hive guard are great medium range light AT t5 creatures. flank them in two units of two with a tervigon, you'll have a strong central position. anything else is up for grabs from there really.

If you want an example of what I run in my own lists. click link in my signature.


anyways, hope that helps in some way

im in favor of the battleforce myself. too many times ive bought individual boxes only to realize i could have bought the BF and saved a few bucks. but i would only go the BF route if your planning on using 2 or more of the units provided. termagaunts are always a nice unit, but hormagaunts and warriors i find are kinda "meh"

Battle force is fine.

You get:

Termagaunts ( useful )
Hormagaunts ( useful )
Gene stealers ( useful )

Warriors ( debateable ) but you can treat it as free if you bought the battle force :'P

General rule of thumb I made regarding whether to buy Battle force or not. If you can use 75% of the content, DO IT

If your going to buy Termagants, and only ever have fleshborer armed ones. it is cheaper by far to buy the static 5 man clunk and click box sets.

Hormagaunts are no longer useful imo in 5th ed Tyranids, as the hoard army just doesnt work in 5th ed 40K

I've had my eye on a Tyranid army for quite some time now, and I've been playing the game for quite some time... pretty much everything in the battleforce box is useful and you get a decent discount on the contents. If I were going to make a 'nid army, I'd buy two.

I think you've got the right idea... a good nid army has a decent mix of shooting, assault, and big bad bugs. Are Tyranids competitive? I have no idea. But they sure as hell are fun. Buy what you like and what excites your imagination.

EDIT: Oh, in regards the above poster's assertion that "horde armies don't work in 5th ed", not so, I say. My supposedly "top tier" Blood Angels just got drowned in a wave of 140 termagants spawned by three Tervigons the other day. Just couldn't kill them fast enough. Got tied up, and didn't have anything left when the big boys hit. Swarm can work.

Xenocidal Maniac wrote:I've had my eye on a Tyranid army for quite some time now, and I've been playing the game for quite some time... pretty much everything in the battleforce box is useful and you get a decent discount on the contents. If I were going to make a 'nid army, I'd buy two.

I think you've got the right idea... a good nid army has a decent mix of shooting, assault, and big bad bugs. Are Tyranids competitive? I have no idea. But they sure as hell are fun. Buy what you like and what excites your imagination.

EDIT: Oh, in regards the above poster's assertion that "horde armies don't work in 5th ed", not so, I say. My supposedly "top tier" Blood Angels just got drowned in a wave of 140 termagants spawned by three Tervigons the other day. Just couldn't kill them fast enough. Got tied up, and didn't have anything left when the big boys hit. Swarm can work.

I'm talking about the fact that 5th ed is Mech-hammer, everything is about the tanks. without MC's in a Nid list you are just plain steamrollered. This is from experience. In tourney's Hoard has a tendancy to hit a brick wall.

Okay, so it looks like the general consensus says to buy a battleforce.

Also, it seems that termagants (in most situations) > hormagaunts?

There appears to be some debate on the warriors as well...I definitely like the idea of running 5 of them and a prime! boneswords are just way cool and they seem decent enough. Sure, they aren't bid bad units but they seem like cheap and flexible units. Keep in mind that I'm likely going to be playing small games at first where a Tyranid Prime seems to make sense as an HQ.

I'm not exactly sold on the tervigon as an HQ. It seems like a mighty fine troops choice, and an overall VERY fun unit, but I'm not exactly sure if it's what I'm looking for.

Oh boy, termagants painting and assembly is going to take a while...

angerpowered wrote:Okay, so it looks like the general consensus says to buy a battleforce.

Also, it seems that termagants (in most situations) > hormagaunts?

There appears to be some debate on the warriors as well...I definitely like the idea of running 5 of them and a prime! boneswords are just way cool and they seem decent enough. Sure, they aren't bid bad units but they seem like cheap and flexible units. Keep in mind that I'm likely going to be playing small games at first where a Tyranid Prime seems to make sense as an HQ.

I'm not exactly sold on the tervigon as an HQ. It seems like a mighty fine troops choice, and an overall VERY fun unit, but I'm not exactly sure if it's what I'm looking for.

Oh boy, termagants painting and assembly is going to take a while...

I think you need to decide two things before buying, the first being points limit, the second being what you want in the army. My advice on when starting an army is always know for certain what you want before buying things, because otherwise you will spend for the sake of it, and when this hobby isnt cheap as it is, you need to save every penny you can.

Tervigon's work both ways tbh, both roles are equally good imo.

Good luck with the termagants, but remember what I said, two five man boxes of termagants are cheaper to buy than one ten man one.

Tervigons are amazing as it can give FNP to anyone that requires it

you dont want an entire shooting army, you do however want a somewhat shooting army.

If you want to learn to play tyranids in the current meta game read this guys blog as hes got it on lockdown - http://synaps3.blogspot.com/

Smitty0305 wrote:you dont want an entire shooting army, you do however want a somewhat shooting army.

If you want to learn to play tyranids in the current meta game read this guys blog as hes got it on lockdown - http://synaps3.blogspot.com/

You are correct, he does have tyranids on "lockdown". He's quit them to play a better army.

If you are going to buy the battle forces (which I do not suggest doing) I would suggest converting the Tyranid warriors into Hive Guard.

It contains;

3 Warriors; Poor. I'd convert them into a prime and 2 hive guard
8 Genestealers; Minimum sized squad I'd ever consider fielding, and genestealers need to be planned for and built around.
16 Hormagaunts; Poor. Termigants and Gargoyles put them to shame point for point
16 Termagants ; staple of the army.

Personally, if I were to start from scratch I'd pick up 5 boxes of snap termigants, a tervigon, at least 2 hive guard and some flavor units like genestealers, a trygon, zoanthropes and some manner of HQ choice, probably a Tyranid prime.

Biovores!

Seriously. At low points, you can demolish people with a couple biovores. Huge barrage with good strength and AP. They are always a part of my armies, and always make up their points.

Get the Battleforce! You pretty much use everything. If you think the Warriors are useless you can make one into a Tyranid Prime and the Tyranid Warrior kit makes the Tyranid Prime per the GW website so I'd start there.