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Was just wondering when Cypher, the Fallen Angel started appearing and making his existence known.

Also was wondering, do Ravenwing marines ever leave their bikes behind? For example, let's assume that they were tasked with being discrete in finding and bringing one of the fallen to justice, in a manner that nessecitated not using their mounts. Is that fluff breaking?

in regards to the DA, i have always believed they must have one of the biggest inteligence agentcies in the imperium, otherwise in the mass of the milky way... how do they get rumours of the fallen, these agents must be human as a marine would atract too much atention, now im just filling gaps in the story with this, but thought i would share

Another question that I sorta wanted to know, would high ups in the astropathic choir on terra feed them information etc?

See I kinda wanna do a short story about a RW killteam going after a fallen angel, but with a twist.

I'd doubt that the High Lords of Terra would do much in the way of feeding them information, as the Dark Angels' overarching goal is to make sure that nobody finds out about them. Someone slipping information means that they are compromised.

they may have there own people "snooping" in on random distress sigals etc for info on th fallen, but the high lords feeding them info, possible, but very doubtfull

Shenloanne wrote:Was just wondering when Cypher, the Fallen Angel started appearing and making his existence known.

Also was wondering, do Ravenwing marines ever leave their bikes behind? For example, let's assume that they were tasked with being discrete in finding and bringing one of the fallen to justice, in a manner that nessecitated not using their mounts. Is that fluff breaking?

I don't know exactly when Cypher started appearing, but the Dark Angels have always known of his existance. I'm not sure exactly that Cypher has really started appearing. I am pretty sure that he is making his way to Terra though, with the Lion's broken sword to ask for forgiveness or something like that.

And I'm assuming that the Ravenwing would simply call in non-bike reinforcements to deal with a stealth situation. But then again, they might not care at all. I don't think they would mind being loud to find one. Collateral damage isn't that important. If they drive over forty civilians to kill one fallen, they don't mind. Then again, if stealth was absolutley necessary, the Dark Angels probably wouldn't task the Ravenwing with it. More than likely it would fall to the 10th company or something.

Only vets and DW and RW know of the fallen so not a chance the is 10th going for him plus tasking neophytes to capture a very old SM wouldn't be a great bet. The RW i suppose would do it or he DW. It is more likely the RW would fly in hard and fast and DW would teleport in and take him out

Justicar Cliesthenes wrote:Only vets and DW and RW know of the fallen so not a chance the is 10th going for him plus tasking neophytes to capture a very old SM wouldn't be a great bet.

Wow. I can't believe I really just put that. Apperently I wasn't using much brain power. I'm actually very disappointed in myself. As someone that considers themselves an expert- my ego has taken a hit.

Ya, they never did a very good job of explaining those bits. Maybe they have ample use of psychers "cerebro"ing for them, or a network of intelligence utilizing humans from the varied worlds they protect and draw new marines from.

But they seem waaaay too stuck up their own butts to really be all that proactive about it. Whenever I read about DA they seem stagnant, incredibly slow to action and distrustful of methods other than those they know incredibly well. I can't imagine them doing anything as reasonable as working with outside bodies or developing special psycher technology... they're too busy being distrustful and poorly written.

Also, I'm sure the raven wing is capable of fighting outside of it's normal calling. It's just that they might as well use a different company when they're portfolio of expertise is not called for.

Given the fact no one really knows what the dark Angels are devoting the most of their time to, and that they respond very belligerently to any interaction or oversight by other imperial bodies, you have to assume that every other branch imperium just assumes they are lazy jerks.

I've got my own handful of questions.

One: Dark Angels are their own chapter, and one of their unique traits is their robes. Where the hell do we get robed models?

Two: Fallen Angels. Are they CSM or SM? Can they choose to be both?

Three: Why does nobody play Dark Angels?

Croaker wrote:I've got my own handful of questions.

One: Dark Angels are their own chapter, and one of their unique traits is their robes. Where the hell do we get robed models?

Two: Fallen Angels. Are they CSM or SM? Can they choose to be both?

Three: Why does nobody play Dark Angels?

One : There are robed models. They just aren't sold ATM because they are an old army

Two: Neither. They are renegades. Renegades aren't necessarily CSM; they just don't serve the IoM

Three : Because they are an old army, and I don't think their codex is sold anymore.

Croaker wrote:I've got my own handful of questions.

One: Dark Angels are their own chapter, and one of their unique traits is their robes. Where the hell do we get robed models?

Two: Fallen Angels. Are they CSM or SM? Can they choose to be both?

Three: Why does nobody play Dark Angels?

You can see how there are already a lot of problems with the logistics of playing them and fluff from your place of inexperience. When you get into it, it gets even more tedious.

For the most part, if you want to play DA you want to play the 1st or 2nd company which have the all or nothing approach with terminators and bikes + speeders respectively. Sadly, that was about the extent of creativity in dealing with DA the last few years. Other than that, they've been made out to be stubborn, mysterious and grumpy. In effect, you don't know much about the army you are playing, besides the fact they don't like being asked about themselves and that they organize their veterans differently than other chapters to use them rather surgically, instead of just throwing them into every mission in a smattering.

You can probably make them either. Just like how people like to make traitor guard or preheresy thousand sons, I'm sure various factions of them deviate from codex organization and traits in their own ways to various degrees.

Croaker wrote:I've got my own handful of questions.

One: Dark Angels are their own chapter, and one of their unique traits is their robes. Where the hell do we get robed models?

Two: Fallen Angels. Are they CSM or SM? Can they choose to be both?

Three: Why does nobody play Dark Angels?

One: Here http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1400016&prodId=prod900140a There's a subsection under Space Marines on the 40K armies page for Dark Angel specific models/bits

Two: Nobody really knows. I believe the fluff is that the Fallen were Dark Angels who fought against their Primarch when he returned from the Horus Heresy as they believed that he had fallen to chaos. The Dark Angels with Lion'el called them heretics and there was a bit of a war and the fallen angels fled.

Three: I don't know. Maybe people don't like their dresses?

Shenloanne wrote:

Also was wondering, do Ravenwing marines ever leave their bikes behind? For example, let's assume that they were tasked with being discrete in finding and bringing one of the fallen to justice, in a manner that nessecitated not using their mounts. Is that fluff breaking?

Would you want to risk being caught in a black Powerarmour with DA-insignia, but off a Bike or Speeder, and in a region rumoured to harbour one of the Fallen at that? One of those 1st Company guys might just shoot first and scratch his head later!

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Two: Neither. They are renegades. Renegades aren't necessarily CSM; they just don't serve the IoM

Thanks for clearing that up.

Lucre wrote:You can probably make them either. Just like how people like to make traitor guard or preheresy thousand sons, I'm sure various factions of them deviate from codex organization and traits in their own ways to various degrees.

I might just do that.

A Town Called Malus wrote:One: Here http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1400016&prodId=prod900140a There's a subsection under Space Marines on the 40K armies page for Dark Angel specific models/bits

Danke. :3

Fluff points:

1. The High Lords and other organisations in the IoM (ever inquisitors) do not know about the Fallen.

2. People (of any race) who know about the Fallen are hunted nearly as much as the Fallen themselves.

3. As already said only the Deathwing, Ravenwing and the inner circle know of them

4. The Fallen are not a unified organisation, they can be chaos marines, pirates, mercenaries or trying to live simple lives on human worlds.

Speculation:

1. Ravenwing members can use scout armour for missions that need stealth, or sergeants in the scout company may be members of the inner circle

2. Librarians can use psychic powers to shield marines in public (Alpha Legion used this in many missions during the crusade) and marines can pass as 'normal' on imperial worlds, seeing as alot of the Fallen live on human worlds.

3. Dark Angels most likely have monitoring stations to intervine any communications that hint at a Fallen and have agents on multiple worlds.

Croaker wrote:Three: Why does nobody play Dark Angels?

Because their newest codex nerfed them so bad and everything that was unique to them everyone else now has.

nurgl wrote:

Croaker wrote:Three: Why does nobody play Dark Angels?

Because their newest codex nerfed them so bad and everything that was unique to them everyone else now has.

Almost all of which, of course, had in fact previously been available to all Marines...

Hopefully they get a buff. I love the robes and color scheme, so I plan to grab a handful of them later.

Ignatius wrote:

Shenloanne wrote:Was just wondering when Cypher, the Fallen Angel started appearing and making his existence known.

Also was wondering, do Ravenwing marines ever leave their bikes behind? For example, let's assume that they were tasked with being discrete in finding and bringing one of the fallen to justice, in a manner that nessecitated not using their mounts. Is that fluff breaking?

I don't know exactly when Cypher started appearing, but the Dark Angels have always known of his existance. I'm not sure exactly that Cypher has really started appearing. I am pretty sure that he is making his way to Terra though, with the Lion's broken sword to ask for forgiveness or something like that.

And I'm assuming that the Ravenwing would simply call in non-bike reinforcements to deal with a stealth situation. But then again, they might not care at all. I don't think they would mind being loud to find one. Collateral damage isn't that important. If they drive over forty civilians to kill one fallen, they don't mind. Then again, if stealth was absolutley necessary, the Dark Angels probably wouldn't task the Ravenwing with it. More than likely it would fall to the 10th company or something.

I'm more thinking, what if they needed to take out an inquisition stronghold to get to their mark.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
See, I've been toying with the idea of writing a short story about the Inquisition capturing Cypher, but because of their total lack of things re: the fallen, not having a clue who or what he is, and then basically they decide they need higher up help, so they send a fast runner (picket line ship etc) to somewhere which is harbouring a very good inquisitor (like Eisenhorn).

SOMEHOW (and this is where you're helping plug the holes) the Inner Circle finds out about this and mounts a search and destroy mission to the planet that Cypher is being held on, having first taken out the ship carrying the message. They go in, but find that Cypher has corrupted the Inquistiors to his needs and there's an epic fight etc etc.

D.A. Aren't even that ballsy lol. But in practical terms, hmmmm. I always do love challenges.............

If Matt Ward can write insanity that makes NO SENSE whatsoever even in 40k Reality, I'm sure I can do the same hehe.

Croaker wrote:I've got my own handful of questions.

One: Dark Angels are their own chapter, and one of their unique traits is their robes. Where the hell do we get robed models?

Two: Fallen Angels. Are they CSM or SM? Can they choose to be both?

Three: Why does nobody play Dark Angels?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
One : There are robed models. They just aren't sold ATM because they are an old army

Two: Neither. They are renegades. Renegades aren't necessarily CSM; they just don't serve the IoM

Three : Because they are an old army, and I don't think their codex is sold anymore.

there not that old ive played them since i started when i was 11ish now im 23.

and heres your answers;
1: you buy the DA conversion kit or veterans kit. ebays another great place to find them.
2: im pretty sure you can play them both becasue in the fluff some are repentant and others have turned but from what ive read not mutated must just think that the DA's as they are now are corupt. theres no rules that state that they can't be played as both.
3: i play DA's and DW i dont play RW because i take power over speed.

Shenloanne wrote:

I'm more thinking, what if they needed to take out an inquisition stronghold to get to their mark.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
See, I've been toying with the idea of writing a short story about the Inquisition capturing Cypher, but because of their total lack of things re: the fallen, not having a clue who or what he is, and then basically they decide they need higher up help, so they send a fast runner (picket line ship etc) to somewhere which is harbouring a very good inquisitor (like Eisenhorn).

SOMEHOW (and this is where you're helping plug the holes) the Inner Circle finds out about this and mounts a search and destroy mission to the planet that Cypher is being held on, having first taken out the ship carrying the message. They go in, but find that Cypher has corrupted the Inquistiors to his needs and there's an epic fight etc etc.

1) You should finish reading the Eisenhorn series first, and the bit in Ravenor where they meet up with him again. On the other hand, neither Ravenor nor Eisenhorn had a name, or even a word, for the Tyranid that Ravenor encountered, why would he know anything about the Fallen? Well, I can think of a way Eisenhorn might know about them, but that's kind of "cheating" and would not at all go over well with... pretty much anyone else who matters in the slightest.

2) The Dark Angels would kill every man, woman and child between them and the Fallen, completely not caring about who they might be. They might even just glass the planet and then go in to pick up the body. The Inquisition and their forces in this situation would be... expendable. Especially if they have evidence (true or not) of their falling to the influence of Chaos. They might even get a banana sticker from the Inquisition for taking care of the problem.