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Hey Dakka,

First of I really dont think this list is competative but I wanted to get some outside feedback on it.

HQ:
Librarian Shield and Fear of the Darkness

Librarian Shield and UR

Elite:
Furioso Dreadnought w/ BT

Furioso Dreadnought w/ Frag Cannon and HF

Sanguinary Priest

Troop:
Assualt Squad (No JP's) x10 w/ 2x Meltaguns and PF

Assault Squad (No JP's) x10 w/ 2x Flamers and PW

Fast Attack:
Baal Predator w/ HB Sponsons

Baal Predator w/ HB Sponsons

Baal Predator w/ HB Sponsons

Heavy Support:
Storm Raven w/ TL Assault Cannon and MM

Storm Raven w/ TL Assault Cannon and MM

Predator w/ Auto Cannon and Lascannon Sponsons

1750

Basic Idea is to use the LIbbys as a moving cover for the Predators. It is a lot of AV13 and a ton of fire power. What can be imporved upon? I am a fan of the frag cannon and HF combo on the furioso as the triple template is brutal to terminator squads *cough GK cough* but then again so are the BT......

C&C please!

Cheers,

Falco

There's two problems I see here. One is you've got two troop choices which you're hurling into close combat, don't expect them to survive and claim objectives.

The other problem is all eggs are in two baskets with the Stormravens. A skilled player will take out those Stormravens first chance they get and take out three units in one. You also really could do with first turn as well.

Stormravens can absorb a LOT of fire - I've never had one fail to make it to where it could do some good before.

I'm not really much of a fan of frag cannons. Mainly because of the AP - on them allowing everything (but a rend) armor saves. Also, blood talons are just too good. Not to mention free.

You are kind of putting most of your eggs in the stormraven basket, but considering my own personal experiences with 'ravens, it's a pretty sturdy basket. Even if it gets shot down, the troops should be just fine, and the dreads only have a 8.5% chance to be junked in that case. Statistically, a blowed-up Stormraven will kill 2 marines.

Basically it looks like a list that would be fun to play and you'll either win spectacularly or flame out spectacularly. Only thing I'd change would be to drop the frag cannon on the furioso for another set of talons. I might drop the HFlamer, too - and give the 2 assault sergeants meltabombs.

They can asborb fire, though don't make out something they are not as they are only av12. As long as they make it across the board then job done.

With the Ravens being shot down it's not the case of the units inside taking damage, it's the problem that they are sitting ducks or out of the fight for several turns. It's even worse if they get shot down while at the back of the board, that's a long slog for Marines and Dreadnoughts.

Chesh wrote:Stormravens can absorb a LOT of fire - I've never had one fail to make it to where it could do some good before.

I'm not really much of a fan of frag cannons. Mainly because of the AP - on them allowing everything (but a rend) armor saves. Also, blood talons are just too good. Not to mention free.

You are kind of putting most of your eggs in the stormraven basket, but considering my own personal experiences with 'ravens, it's a pretty sturdy basket. Even if it gets shot down, the troops should be just fine, and the dreads only have a 8.5% chance to be junked in that case. Statistically, a blowed-up Stormraven will kill 2 marines.

Basically it looks like a list that would be fun to play and you'll either win spectacularly or flame out spectacularly. Only thing I'd change would be to drop the frag cannon on the furioso for another set of talons. I might drop the HFlamer, too - and give the 2 assault sergeants meltabombs.

This is basically what i was going for. A fun list that will either be amazing or a dud lol. I have also found that the Stormraven can take a pounding. But like Mercer said all it takes in a couple of lucky pen rolls and i am foot slogging my troops across the board. But i guess it is what it is. At that point i have a 6 unit AV13 wall to march behind......plus if most of the enemy anti-tank fire is focused on the storm ravens, the predators will last that much longer.

If i wanted to roll a super comp. list i would be spaming MSU in Las/Plas RB and a HG squad with plasmaguns in a Rhino.

I think a couple of play tests will sort out if i should double up on the Blood Talons (because i do so love them) or keep the frag cannon.

Thanks to both of you for posting! I wasnt sure if this list would attracted much attention.

I run a double raven in my 1500 list and I find they usually make up their points vaule i both getting my terminators and Furioso to where they need to be and taking down other stuff. The bloodstirke missles are very very helpful.

Ah yes, the Bloodstike missiles, most of the time they are good for popping one or two vehicles on turn 1. My usual strategy is to move 6" and then unload the Bloodstrike missiles just incase the stormraven gets popped. it would be a shame to waste them.

You can move flat out and get obscured (4+) cover saves every turn. That's what makes them so durable - not the AV12.

Hey guys,

Sorry about this, but i actually messed up on my point calculations, i had a 10 man ASM squad costing 100pts......the actual 1750 list is as follows:

HQ:
Librarian Shield and FoD

Elite:

2x Furioso Dreads (one with HF)

Troop:
10x ASM (no JP) PW and 2x Flamers

10x ASM (no JP) PF and 2x Meltaguns

FA:
Baal Pred w/ HB Sponsons

Baal Pred w/ HB Sponsons

Baal Pred no Sponsons

Heavy:
Stormraven

Stormraven

Predator w/ Auto cannon and Lascannon sponsons.

i would suggest trying to find some points for 2 las/plas razorbacks for those 2 assault squads. even tho they are not going to be inside them it gives you more long range killing power with the lascannon and mid range terminator killing with the plasma.

and only have 2 scoring units on the table for 1750. even some of the most experienced players would have a hard time trying to win objective based missions, but if you are only going to play kill points or 2 objectives. then i think this list is ok for those types of missions

i love my stormravens to death. if they dont get shot out of the sky turn one. they are going all over the place causing havoc and mayhem. totally making up their points by the end of the game.

i just had an 1850pts tournament where i live and only due to bad rolling on my part and good rolling on my 3rd enemy i had a real shot at the 1st place. ill post that list here.

HQ
Mephiston

Elites
Furioso dread with blood talons melta stormbolter

Sanguinary Priest

Troops
Assault squad (5man no JP) with Meltagun in
Razorback with las/plas X 4

Fast attack
Baal pred extra armor, heavy bolter, TL assault cannon X 2

Heavy support
Predator autocannon, heavy bolter, extra armor X 2

Stormraven extra armor, TL assault cannon, TL multi melta, and blood strike missles

my 3rd game was against Tyranids he had 2 regenerating Trygons, a 2+ armor saving regenerating hive tyrant and got really lucky with some hive guard shooting and a great timed paroxysm on Mephiston when he was duel assaulted by both trygons. i ended up killing both trygons but not befor i lost mephiston, 3 razorbacks, 3 assault squads, the furioso, and the storm raven to them mostly the hive guard shot down the storm raven and one razorback

the 1st game was vrs a mixed foot eldar with wave serpent transport

and the 2nd game was Vrs chaos demons the normal stuff for demons to have. you know like fate weaver, the blood thirster, 4 blood crushers, 2x 5 man horrors units, a unit of 6 plague bearers, 3 demon princes 1 being nurgle and the other 2 being bolt princes and some more that i cant remember something to do with slannesh things on horses

i think i got lucky that i played against armys that didnt have alot of armor 13 or more when there was 3 necron players and a whole lot of other marines armys there

if i where to bump this army up to 2000pts the preds would get lascannon instead of heavy bolters and a few power weapon power fists to put in the squads.
but i hope that my army list gives you ideas on yours and any comments for my list would be nice to have.

He's got plenty of long-range shootiness in this list already, but what would you suggest dropping? Trading an AV13 Predator for 2x AV11 Razorbacks is a horrible trade, IMO.

Passwordistaco wrote:i would suggest trying to find some points for 2 las/plas razorbacks for those 2 assault squads. even tho they are not going to be inside them it gives you more long range killing power with the lascannon and mid range terminator killing with the plasma.

and only have 2 scoring units on the table for 1750. even some of the most experienced players would have a hard time trying to win objective based missions, but if you are only going to play kill points or 2 objectives. then i think this list is ok for those types of missions

i love my stormravens to death. if they dont get shot out of the sky turn one. they are going all over the place causing havoc and mayhem. totally making up their points by the end of the game.

i just had an 1850pts tournament where i live and only due to bad rolling on my part and good rolling on my 3rd enemy i had a real shot at the 1st place. ill post that list here.

HQ
Mephiston

Elites
Furioso dread with blood talons melta stormbolter

Sanguinary Priest

Troops
Assault squad (5man no JP) with Meltagun in
Razorback with las/plas X 4

Fast attack
Baal pred extra armor, heavy bolter, TL assault cannon X 2

Heavy support
Predator autocannon, heavy bolter, extra armor X 2

Stormraven extra armor, TL assault cannon, TL multi melta, and blood strike missles

my 3rd game was against Tyranids he had 2 regenerating Trygons, a 2+ armor saving regenerating hive tyrant and got really lucky with some hive guard shooting and a great timed paroxysm on Mephiston when he was duel assaulted by both trygons. i ended up killing both trygons but not befor i lost mephiston, 3 razorbacks, 3 assault squads, the furioso, and the storm raven to them mostly the hive guard shot down the storm raven and one razorback

the 1st game was vrs a mixed foot eldar with wave serpent transport

and the 2nd game was Vrs chaos demons the normal stuff for demons to have. you know like fate weaver, the blood thirster, 4 blood crushers, 2x 5 man horrors units, a unit of 6 plague bearers, 3 demon princes 1 being nurgle and the other 2 being bolt princes and some more that i cant remember something to do with slannesh things on horses

i think i got lucky that i played against armys that didnt have alot of armor 13 or more when there was 3 necron players and a whole lot of other marines armys there

if i where to bump this army up to 2000pts the preds would get lascannon instead of heavy bolters and a few power weapon power fists to put in the squads.
but i hope that my army list gives you ideas on yours and any comments for my list would be nice to have.

A couple of things i have learned from playing BA.....1) You play 2 ways, either MSU Razor spam or Over the Top in your face nastiness. There is no middle of the road BA list. Those middle of the road lists get taken apart by armies that can do it better, like SW and GK. 2) It is a fun army! Might as well have a good time playing a list that you like. It is always nice to joke about how bad you are doing to your opponent when you start fireballing! 40K is a fun game and it ruins the ambiance of the game when players start to nerd rage.

Like you said above the list I have put together is good for 2/3 of all missions played out of the BRB. I think that is about as good as you can get it with most lists. either your going to have plenty of objective holders (and a ton of KP's) or your going to have a few objective holders and a hard hitting list. either way your 2/3's.....

As for your list.....the dread could easily be switched out for another Baal Predator. The majority of your list is shooting so the dread really does not fit. I would drop him and Mephiston for 2 libbys and a Baal Pred. As most would say also drop the SR, I say keep it. It will be a fire draw that should keep your other tanks alive. that and having the libbys cast shield every turn.......that leaves you with 30pts. Drop the EA from all the Predators and add lascannon sponsons to the HS Preds.

Falco wrote:

Passwordistaco wrote:i would suggest trying to find some points for 2 las/plas razorbacks for those 2 assault squads. even tho they are not going to be inside them it gives you more long range killing power with the lascannon and mid range terminator killing with the plasma.

and only have 2 scoring units on the table for 1750. even some of the most experienced players would have a hard time trying to win objective based missions, but if you are only going to play kill points or 2 objectives. then i think this list is ok for those types of missions

i love my stormravens to death. if they dont get shot out of the sky turn one. they are going all over the place causing havoc and mayhem. totally making up their points by the end of the game.

i just had an 1850pts tournament where i live and only due to bad rolling on my part and good rolling on my 3rd enemy i had a real shot at the 1st place. ill post that list here.

HQ
Mephiston

Elites
Furioso dread with blood talons melta stormbolter

Sanguinary Priest

Troops
Assault squad (5man no JP) with Meltagun in
Razorback with las/plas X 4

Fast attack
Baal pred extra armor, heavy bolter, TL assault cannon X 2

Heavy support
Predator autocannon, heavy bolter, extra armor X 2

Stormraven extra armor, TL assault cannon, TL multi melta, and blood strike missles

my 3rd game was against Tyranids he had 2 regenerating Trygons, a 2+ armor saving regenerating hive tyrant and got really lucky with some hive guard shooting and a great timed paroxysm on Mephiston when he was duel assaulted by both trygons. i ended up killing both trygons but not befor i lost mephiston, 3 razorbacks, 3 assault squads, the furioso, and the storm raven to them mostly the hive guard shot down the storm raven and one razorback

the 1st game was vrs a mixed foot eldar with wave serpent transport

and the 2nd game was Vrs chaos demons the normal stuff for demons to have. you know like fate weaver, the blood thirster, 4 blood crushers, 2x 5 man horrors units, a unit of 6 plague bearers, 3 demon princes 1 being nurgle and the other 2 being bolt princes and some more that i cant remember something to do with slannesh things on horses

i think i got lucky that i played against armys that didnt have alot of armor 13 or more when there was 3 necron players and a whole lot of other marines armys there

if i where to bump this army up to 2000pts the preds would get lascannon instead of heavy bolters and a few power weapon power fists to put in the squads.
but i hope that my army list gives you ideas on yours and any comments for my list would be nice to have.

A couple of things i have learned from playing BA.....1) You play 2 ways, either MSU Razor spam or Over the Top in your face nastiness. There is no middle of the road BA list. Those middle of the road lists get taken apart by armies that can do it better, like SW and GK. 2) It is a fun army! Might as well have a good time playing a list that you like. It is always nice to joke about how bad you are doing to your opponent when you start fireballing! 40K is a fun game and it ruins the ambiance of the game when players start to nerd rage.

Like you said above the list I have put together is good for 2/3 of all missions played out of the BRB. I think that is about as good as you can get it with most lists. either your going to have plenty of objective holders (and a ton of KP's) or your going to have a few objective holders and a hard hitting list. either way your 2/3's.....

As for your list.....the dread could easily be switched out for another Baal Predator. The majority of your list is shooting so the dread really does not fit. I would drop him and Mephiston for 2 libbys and a Baal Pred. As most would say also drop the SR, I say keep it. It will be a fire draw that should keep your other tanks alive. that and having the libbys cast shield every turn.......that leaves you with 30pts. Drop the EA from all the Predators and add lascannon sponsons to the HS Preds.

Sounds pretty good to me. Then again, there is not a lot of long range anti tank stuff. A real possibility is that your opponent takes a Load Of lascannons and destroys the majority of your tanks and raveny goodness around turn 1-2. Anything that gets into rapid-fire/ assault range, you most likely will come out on top. That said, it looks like a quality list to me.

My version of Double-Raven is as follows: (1750)

HQ
-----
Meph

Elite
-------
Furioso - BT/Melta/SB
5x Terminators - 3x TH/SS, 2x LC
Sang Priest

Troops
----------
10x AM - 2x melta, PF, packs
10x AM - 2x melta, PF, packs

Fast Attack
----------------
Speeder - MM, HF
Speeder - MM, HF
Speeder - MM, HF

HEavy
----------
Stormraven - TLAC, TLMM, EA
Stormraven - TLAC, TLMM, EA

So how this applies to your list:
- you NEED something in both ravens that will make your opponent need to kill both.
- Your force needs to be extremely mobile and hard hitting
- Your force needs the ability that if it goes second it will still be OK coming in from reserves if need be
- Every part of the list needs to support one another

For your list, the Baals dont really support the list as a whole. They're neat, but unreliable, and don't have much killing power (I used to try and use 3 and they always disappointed). That said, you lack target saturation, and ASM squads without a priest die like any normal marines, and don't hit any harder. I'd recommend giving your ASM's jump packs. This allows you to combat squad and DS in where you need them, providing extra target saturation, flexibility, and the ability to get up to 4 troops. Having them in ravens limits your options, and they really aren't that much better than normal marines in CC without priests.

If you are going to take JP-less ASM at least take the free drop pod. You don't have to deploy them in it and you can drop it to block an alley way or to contest an objective. It's a free storm bolter and you might as well use it.

I recommend finding points for EA on the 2 SRs...drop the Baal HB sponsons.