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Hi,

here is my problem. I played today agains a friend that run space wolves. He basically had:

(1500)
1 mounted wolf lord with some thunderwolf cavalry
2 lazorbacks with some troops in it
1 fenrissian wolf pack
1 vindicator
2 long fangs squad with missiles launchers (5 of them in each)

I ran something like

(1500)
Epistolarian with terminator armor, storm shield, null zone, vortex, in terminator squad, in dept striked
2 rhinos with basic troops (10 guys, 1 flammer, 1 sergent, 1 missile launcher)
2 dreadnoughts basic weapons
1 squad of assault marines with base chappy (jump pack)
1 predator with tl laser and side lasers


And here is what happened...
He got 1st turn, shooting down 1 dreadnought,
Turn 2, cavalry immobilise and no shoot my predator, so my turn i shot with tactical marines dealing only 1 wound. Wounded some wolves with dreadnoughts but no possible charge (immobilised)
turn 3, his vindicator wipe 1 of my squads and wolves wipe the second. terminators are coming but he alocated wounds of the vortex so i didn't one shot his HQ. Assault squad stop anti tank missiles with teeth. Remain the chaplain that charge 1 long fang squad.
turn 4, termis got wiped by vindicator so i stoped here. Nothing left on the table.

What did I do wrong? How can I deal with thunderwolf cavalry or generaly spacewolves? I usually play blacktemplars and I still struggle against them aswell. Any tip for a beginner?

How is he equiping the Wolf calvery? If they are base (not a lot of storm shields) I don't see why your termis if they are TH/SS Termis with the Libby and null zone can't handle them. The problem is that if you deep strike them without a beacon you likely are not getting them into combat with them.
Another reason I think you are struggling is I kind of hate your list. Here is why.
you are paying way to much for your liby, Epostolarian is generaly not worth it. I also don't like vortex as you will kill your self with it to often. Avenger is better.
What type of termis are you running? INormal termis kind of suck because of what they give you at their cost. Run Assault termis with lots of storm shields.
I hate how your Dreads are equiped. again I'm assuming base which is a MM and a SB. This sucks. Both those weapons are short range and you are foot slogging them. If you want to have a short range dread you need to give them drop pods. I'd also upgrade to a HF so they can be anti infentry if you want them to be. If you turn them to Riflemen dreads (2x TL Auto-cannons) they don't need pods. put them in cover and say bye bye to his razorbacks.
I don't really like the all Lascannon predator, I think auto/las is better for the points. Use the dread's MM to pop the vindicator and his predator.
The assault marines are a wast of points. Seriously they get the same amount of attacks as his wolf gaurd but don't have melta, mark of the wolfan, a banner or a wolf gaurd and cost more. They are ok with a chappy buff but thaqt is too much to pay for rerolling non powerweapon attacks.

a 3+ save isnt that hard to overcome. If he is running a lot of storm shields all the better, a 3++ is just as easy to overcome as a 3+ for bolters. Mass fire is the way to go.

If thunderwolf cav are the problem, you want your dreads with dual CCWs


It looks like your list just isnt very good. Too many expensive lascannons and not enough volume of fire.

Ok, thank you for your answers!

My termis were shooty (because I deep strike them) with 1 heavy flammer. I agree with your point. I agree with you. My hq is too expensive.

I have few question. If I take basic librarian (100pt). With what squad can I put him? What do work well with him? I usually play BT, so i've a lot of chain saw guys. I was thinking of a veteran assault squad with no jump pack in a razor back to go with him. With 1 power each player round, I suppose I should try to avenger, then assault, but I can't cast null zone. What are your thoughts on that?

I will try a cheaper predator. I will switch with autocanon.

I will also try to reconcider my dreadnoughts. Perhaps with drop pods perhaps with heavy weapons as supports.

@Exergy My list is not very good indeed. If you know some way to improve it, you are welcome Any thoughts on it can help me.


Edit: what do you think of vindicators? I browsed some competitive list and i've seen none. Do you have a reason for that?

Vindicators are a little short ranged. They are cheap enough for vanilla marines.

BT with potms they are great.

If you got three especially for BT you will be doing very well indeed.

Ok so here are my thoughts on a new list (I will probably purchase some new stuff)

Librarian null zone, avenger 100 pts
2 dreadnoughts (double TL auto) 2 *125 pts
Basic 10 squad SM flammer ML in rhino 2 * 205 pts
3 Land Speeders flammer/MM 3 * 60 pts
3 predators autocLaser 3 * 120

What do you think of that? Can it possibly beat TWC?

It's 1300, so i'm looking for something to put my Librarian with. What is he usually put with? I can change spells for something else if needed.

Thank you all for your tips, it will really help me.

I usually deal with TWC with... bolters. Lots of focus-firing bolters. At the end of the day they have a 3+ save.

Are you running BT or Codex:SM? It makes a difference.

For BTs go with the cheap typhoons and grab some cyclone termis. For Sm, your SS/Th termis will be allstars. Vindis are pretty good either way (deny 3+ save and instakill TWC), but beware weapon destroyed!

I would never take triple las preds- way overpriced unless you are BT, and then you can still get more cost efficient fire.

Podding your MM dread can make short work of his vindi or pop a RB. If it survives the ensuing missile salvos (which draws heat off your other models), it can then charge into anything w/out a fist or wulfen.

@heartserenade

I had no chance with bolters... 2 x 10 squad shooting, but on 5+ for wound, i had 2 wound on 30 shots. :/

@jmurph

I used to run only BT, but Iplayed C:SM just to give them a try.

I never tryed typhoons, but I plan to buy speeders btw. I think they worth the points. I will give a try to shooty termis, even if i'm usually desapointed by them (mediocre cost efficiency).

I was thinking more of a 3 autocanon + laser on the side -> 120 each, that i think is not too expensive.

Tried pod MM once and I've to admit that it worked well.

Thank you all for advices. I will do some shopping, try that and post here again


P.S. : I still need to know what is the best squad to put the librarian with!