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I play an assault army with very little that can open hammer heads and i so often get a powerklaw in contact with one and roll to hit. He always moves 7 inches so that i need 6's. But when ever i roll 4+ he says i take that many wounds. So first even if i miss i still get wounded? Second dont i need to roll to wound now or are they wounds? Third do these happen imediately so my power klaw doesnt get to roll to pen like he says or do i still get to pen even if he dies? it all sounds too good against my assaults and means that his tanks are almost invulnearable since i dont have much shooting

Is my friend correct on this matter?

Flitchette discharges IIRC when a unit charges the vehicle in question, each model in the unit takes either a wound or is hit (I dont entirely remember, but I think it is wound) on a 4+ per model, with armour saves allowed.

This happens before any attacks are made as it happens instantly, and after that your unit (whats left of it after the discharge) can make their attacks. Unless you choose for your power klaw Nob to die, you should still be able to attack it afterwards.

Sounds like your friend has got that tank wargear rule almost completely wrong tbh. (Sounds like it anyway)

Sounds like he's mostly right...

The Flechettes don't rely on your attack roll. They have a separate roll before you make your attacks. Any model that is about to attack the vehicle is wounded on a 4+. If they survive, they make their attacks as normal.

thank you

for all i know he might have thought he was doing it perfectly

he never tells me what he is rolling unitl AFTER he rolls (it boils my blood)

OK THANKS

destuctir wrote:thank you

for all i know he might have thought he was doing it perfectly

he never tells me what he is rolling unitl AFTER he rolls (it boils my blood)

OK THANKS

Erm yes, he does play it 'perfectly'?

He tells you to roll a dice and on a 4+ you take a wound. If you survive, you can make your attacks as normal. Just like he told you last night?

Iranna.

insaniak wrote:Sounds like he's mostly right...

The Flechettes don't rely on your attack roll. They have a separate roll before you make your attacks. Any model that is about to attack the vehicle is wounded on a 4+. If they survive, they make their attacks as normal.

Ooops my bad...

Yeah thats the rule there again IIRC.
So if your PK Nob decides to attack the tank, before he does anything, roll a dice, on a four up he takes a wound (With armour saves...?) then does his attack. You do this for each model that wants to attack. Sounds like if a model doesnt attack the tank, nothing happens.

In CC all models must attack.

what'll really get you is this...
What happens if you attack a squadron of Piranhas with flechette launchers...

Iranna wrote:

destuctir wrote:thank you

for all i know he might have thought he was doing it perfectly

he never tells me what he is rolling unitl AFTER he rolls (it boils my blood)

OK THANKS

Erm yes, he does play it 'perfectly'?

He tells you to roll a dice and on a 4+ you take a wound. If you survive, you can make your attacks as normal. Just like he told you last night?

Iranna.

my thread iranna

and according to these nice people he didnt

i rolled to hit and he took all my hits and said thats how many wounds i took. plus i was suppose to allocate them not him. he didnt do it right and i want to tell him that tomorrow (not mean just inform him of it)

marv335 wrote:what'll really get you is this...
What happens if you attack a squadron of Piranhas with flechette launchers...

INAT says if the squadron has them, only roll once. But the Codex doesn't force all of the Piranhas to bring FDs if you want them. So how would this work if you had a squadron of 3 Piranhas and only 1 brought FDs?

IMO the more reasonable "clarification" would be that only vehicles in the squadron that are in base/hull contact with an assaulting model can fire its FDs.

Top rule in any wargame:
Don't roll any dice unless you know what you're rolling for.

destuctir wrote: plus i was suppose to allocate them not him.

Actually, neither of you gets to allocate them. You roll for each model that is attacking, not for the unit. So you don't allocate the wounds... The model that has the 4+ rolled for it takes the wound.

insaniak wrote:

destuctir wrote: plus i was suppose to allocate them not him.

Actually, neither of you gets to allocate them. You roll for each model that is attacking, not for the unit. So you don't allocate the wounds... The model that has the 4+ rolled for it takes the wound.

ow ok but he still ended up doing 18 wounds to a unit of 12 guys since he didnt say what i was rolling

destuctir wrote:
ow ok but he still ended up doing 18 wounds to a unit of 12 guys since he didnt say what i was rolling

Erm, no he didn't?

You only had a PK Nob with 1 wound in combat with the Hammerhead; he took 2 wounds from Flecette discharger which you failed to save and he died. Therefore, you got no attacks from other models or the Nob.

Plus, you only had a Nob and 4 Ork boyz left.

Iranna.

destuctir wrote:ow ok but he still ended up doing 18 wounds to a unit of 12 guys since he didnt say what i was rolling

You roll once for each model, there is no way he does 18 wounds to a unit of 12 guys.

Move orks into assault range.

For each model attacking, roll 1d6. If there are any nobs or specially equipped models, roll them separately (if you have 9 orks, 1 nob, and 2 rokkit launchas, roll 9 dice for the Orks, 1 dice for the Nob, and 2 dice for the Rokkia Launchas).

For each dice that comes up 4+, suffer a wound, armor saves as normal. If you fail your armor save, remove a model.

Iranna wrote:You only had a PK Nob with 1 wound in combat with the Hammerhead; he took 2 wounds from Flecette discharger which you failed to save and he died.

How does a Nob suffer 2 wounds from the Flechette Discharger?

Iranna wrote:Therefore, you got no attacks from other models or the Nob.

How does losing the Nob prevent other models from attacking? Did all of the models get wounded and die?

Presumably it was a squadron and they were taking the view that 4+ is for every model in the squadron with flechettes, thus allowing multiple potential hits on every model.

destuctir wrote:ow ok but he still ended up doing 18 wounds to a unit of 12 guys since he didnt say what i was rolling

If you're ever in any doubt what you're rolling for, don't roll!

You must always be clear about what's being rolled for, if your opponent wont tell you what a roll is for don't roll until they do. This helps avoid unnecessarydisputes.

Iranna wrote:

destuctir wrote:
ow ok but he still ended up doing 18 wounds to a unit of 12 guys since he didnt say what i was rolling

Erm, no he didn't?

You only had a PK Nob with 1 wound in combat with the Hammerhead; he took 2 wounds from Flecette discharger which you failed to save and he died. Therefore, you got no attacks from other models or the Nob.

Plus, you only had a Nob and 4 Ork boyz left.

Iranna.

i amnt just talking about last night he has killed loads of my guys with these things

plus he did 2 wounds to the nob you said it yourself and only 1 mdoel was close enough to atack proof he does do it wrong


Automatically Appended Next Post:

biccat wrote:

destuctir wrote:ow ok but he still ended up doing 18 wounds to a unit of 12 guys since he didnt say what i was rolling

You roll once for each model, there is no way he does 18 wounds to a unit of 12 guys.

Move orks into assault range.

For each model attacking, roll 1d6. If there are any nobs or specially equipped models, roll them separately (if you have 9 orks, 1 nob, and 2 rokkit launchas, roll 9 dice for the Orks, 1 dice for the Nob, and 2 dice for the Rokkia Launchas).

For each dice that comes up 4+, suffer a wound, armor saves as normal. If you fail your armor save, remove a model.

thanks for the clear clarification

Iranna wrote:You only had a PK Nob with 1 wound in combat with the Hammerhead; he took 2 wounds from Flecette discharger which you failed to save and he died.

How does a Nob suffer 2 wounds from the Flechette Discharger?

well becasue he told me i roll my 4 attacks and for each hit i got i got hit by the discharger

Iranna wrote:Therefore, you got no attacks from other models or the Nob.

How does losing the Nob prevent other models from attacking? Did all of the models get wounded and die?

tro the last one it was actually that i had spread them out to keep enough behind cover for a save so only the nob got close enough to attack it

my other responces are in italics in the quote

Destructir: He doesn't dictate what you are rolling, and Flechette dischargers only make 1 roll per model.

If you are going to roll attacks on the vehicle, and he stops you in order to roll flechettes, that is fine.

If he lets you roll all your attacks and tries to claim those are the Flechettes, that is wrong(especially since, as orks, that wound be about 4 flechette attacks/model) because you were not rolling for flechettes, you were rolling for attacks(also technically flechettes and saves are rolled before attacks).

He should be the one rolling(after all assault moves and "who can fight" are both determined), and he should be rolling for each model that can/is attacking(Rolled during the Initiative step in a multi-assault scenario) the vehicle, individually(you could shorthand this to Nob, Special weapons, and a group of identical models since all the models have been determined to be attacking the vehicle before any were removed, and therefore will still be able to after those that qualify them are removed).

destuctir wrote:well becasue he told me i roll my 4 attacks and for each hit i got i got hit by the discharger

Well, this is incorrect.

Hopefully you know why, and can play the rule correctly in the future.

Best of luck.

When in doubt ask for their codex...

thank you for all your help the rule sounded to good. i am graitful and will nicly inform him of his mistake. and he doesnt mention he has them to ME he tells other people when i am listening but me ow no and then waits for me to roll something before saying "we need to do this first so that roll is for this"

one again thanks and i hope to replay the favour some time

destuctir wrote:thank you for all your help the rule sounded to good. i am graitful and will nicly inform him of his mistake. and he doesnt mention he has them to ME he tells other people when i am listening but me ow no and then waits for me to roll something before saying "we need to do this first so that roll is for this"

one again thanks and i hope to replay the favour some time

If you were rolling to hit then he has missed his chance to use Flechette by not informing you. A roll is what it's declare for, can't be changed later. remind him of that next time.

And as mentioned he should be rolling for Flechette, not you. So twice he's missed his chance to use it. A rarely say it but he sounds like a dirty player, don't stand for it.

he's not dirty but he gets slippery when his tanks are for the block. in many other ways he is a great guy but touch his tanks he WILL stop you

Well I had to be a little curious when you told me your weirdboy has an unlimited ranged melta weapon...

I'll be happy to play my Flechettes as you see fit, anything else causing you problems?

weird name didnt know you had an account here too. no nothing else seems mad to me. and i didnt say unlimited iranna did i just agreed since i had no clue

nosferatu1001 wrote:Presumably it was a squadron and they were taking the view that 4+ is for every model in the squadron with flechettes, thus allowing multiple potential hits on every model.

No, they were taking it as the attack rolls being used to resolve the flechettes.

Well from the sound of things it was a simple mix up and learning is part of living so learn and move on. If he keeps trying to pull that he is cheating if he stops he more then likely just made a mistake. I have to say that I have done stuff like this before too.

grendel083 wrote:If you were rolling to hit then he has missed his chance to use Flechette by not informing you. A roll is what it's declare for, can't be changed later. remind him of that next time.

Just needed to comment on this post:

This line of thinking is entirely wrong; Flechette Dischargers are not voluntary. So there is no "missing" your chance to use them, they are just as mandatory as CC attacks from models within range of the vehicle(whether those models have any chance to harm the hammerhead or not).

For example; lets say you have a squad of 12 trukk boyz that assault a Hammerhead with Flechettes. The Flechettes kill 5 of the boyz before any swings, and the remaining 6 Boyz and nob only Immobilize and Stun the tank. In the Tau turn the Orks go to attack the tank again(it could not move, so they may still attack it, still being in Base-to-base as they are), the Boyz are only S3, and therefore have no chance whatsoever to do any damage but they must attack the tank anyways do to the assault rules not allowing any model to hold back cc attacks. therefore the flechettes will kill another 3-4 boyz(and possibly wounding the Nob at some point)

Moral of the story is; do not assault vehicles with Flechettes with Save 5+ or < models.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

grendel083 wrote:If you were rolling to hit then he has missed his chance to use Flechette by not informing you. A roll is what it's declare for, can't be changed later. remind him of that next time.

Just needed to comment on this post:

This line of thinking is entirely wrong; Flechette Dischargers are not voluntary. So there is no "missing" your chance to use them, they are just as mandatory as CC attacks from models within range of the vehicle(whether those models have any chance to harm the hammerhead or not).

I see what you mean, they're not voluntary. But if a unit has already rolled to hit you can't really say "oh I forgot that vehicle has flechette, you'll have to discard all those rolls and backtrack".

The scenario posted was of Flechette not being mentioned until the unit had already rolled to hit. If you fail to mention wargear before it's too late, then it's just that - too late. Opportunity missed.