Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What does Dakka think of the idea of a Chaos Space Marine Warband that hunts and kills Grey Knights. Isn't that a tactical part of war - to remove the enemies most powerful units and most potent assets?

The fluff is that there was a Librarian of the Emerald Knights Space Marine Chapter who discovered that the Chapter Master and a number of Captains and Units had turned renegade and sent word to the Inquisition. The Grey Knights were dispatched to exterminate the renegade elements of the Emerald Knights. However in a fit of fury the Chapter Master (Anlon) forges an Imperial dispatch to the Grey Knights ordering the immediate execution of all Emerald Knights. Anlon however flees with his trusted captains and other elements loyal to him to the Eye of Terror; unfortunately their group crosses path with a Black Templars Crusade fleet and is wiped out...
The Grey Knights engage the Emerald Knights and force any remaining elements to turn traitor and flee in order to survive. The Librarian Kellan turns to Nurgle's embrace to stave of his death and becomes a Sorcerer of Chaos. He and other surviving members of the Emerald Knights' 7th Company swear an Oath to the Ruinous Powers that a Grey Knight shall die for every member of the Emerald Knights that fell on that day...

What does Dakka think of that?? Believable??

The main issue is that the GKs don't hunt down renagade Space Marines. They hunt down those who are using daemonic pacts and sorcerey.

and even then it is more likely for another chapter(the Exorcists perhaps) to be sent instead of the GKs. The GKs have more pressing matters then some random chapter thats turned renagade.



Then we have the Chapter Master forging a dispatch ordering the GKs to kill the entire chapter. The GKs don't take orders from anyone, even Inquisitors can only request the aid of the GKs. The GKs are completely autonomous in what their chapter takes on and doesn't. The Grand Masters need to carefully deliberate before ordering their members somewhere enmass. this is because there are a multitude of other things they could be doing. What if a warp rift opened up somewhere and the GKs were busy putting down something petty while a valuable world was dying?



I would change the story as follows,

The Librarian uncovers the members of his Chapter involved in a daemonic pact. The chapter master has aquired a powerful daemonic artifact of some kind(make it sound serious) and informs the inquisition.

The GKs, knowing the power of the artifact, arrive and begin exterminating the chapter. However the GKs, after purging the traitors, take the Librarian and those who stayed loyal into custody. The Librarian resents this and in this moment the daemon lord of Nurgle(trapped in the artifact) gains control over him. Surged with power the Librarian and his brothers manage to overpower their captors and escape into the Eye of Terror. The Librarian swears revenge upon the GKs for what he percieves as betrayal and the destruction of his chapter.

What does Dakka think of the idea of a Chaos Space Marine Warband that hunts and kills Grey Knights. Isn't that a tactical part of war - to remove the enemies most powerful units and most potent assets?

Thats quite an interesting angle tbh.

Perhaps a subsect of the TS - one of their upper echelons have decided to to do it? They would certainly have the ability, despite the GKs prowess (or perhaps not?).

Would Abbadon assemble a sort of Elite group of Night Lords to do it?

Good idea Typhon, some rumination is in order methinks!

I'd agree with GT though, GKs dont really hunt down Traitor Legions but perhaps one is actively summoning Daemons and Gks learn of it so a counter Op is launched?

Word Bearers seem likely candidates for doing something like this, being the legion that summons daemons most.

Why not? Seems like something a Chaos Lord might do, gather a strike force to hunt Grey Knights. Perhaps one of the Grand Masters insulted his mother a long time ago and he's out for vengeance. Perhaps the Grey Knights are led by a Radical Inquisitor who stole the Chaos Lord's Daemon Weapon. Perhaps he's looking for a worthy sacrifice to Khorne. Ah, the possibilities...

@ Grey Templar - Wouldn't the Grey Knights just exterminate the entire chapter rather than take any "loyalist" elements into custody. Imperials are always wary that the "taint" of chaos is somehow infectious. Wouldn't they worry that the loyalist elements were contaminated and just kill them...

I understand your point about the Daemon Artifact of Nurgle it is better than just a traitorous Chapter Master but how about adding in the fact that some of the Chaplains and Librarians Loyal to Anlon had used lesser daemons during engagements against Tau and Orks in the Eastern Fringe...
I'm kind of hoping that Kellan turns to Nurgle because of his fear of death so maybe he obtains this daemon weapon in the middle of the extermination and for fear of losing his life succumbs to the whisperings of the Daemon within the artifact - rather than delivering the weapon to the Grey Knights and proving his loyalty and being killed anyway.

Thanks Ratius

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:What does Dakka think of the idea of a Chaos Space Marine Warband that hunts and kills Grey Knights. Isn't that a tactical part of war - to remove the enemies most powerful units and most potent assets?

I'm for it. I was going to say that it would be hard to find them, but then again, maybe it wouldn't. Grey Knights go where the demons go. Chaos Space Marines know how to make the demons show up. Word Bearers could turn a planet into a demon world, wait for the Grey Knights to show up, and hit their spaceship with a dozen melta torpedoes when they show up. Seems like a good plan to me.

As said above, the idea of some Chaos Space Marine Lord of Khorne hunting Grey Knights makes sense to me. Champions of Khorne often seek out the greatest and most worthy opponents they can find and the Grey Knights have some of the best fighters in the galaxy.

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:@ Grey Templar - Wouldn't the Grey Knights just exterminate the entire chapter rather than take any "loyalist" elements into custody. Imperials are always wary that the "taint" of chaos is somehow infectious. Wouldn't they worry that the loyalist elements were contaminated and just kill them...

I understand your point about the Daemon Artifact of Nurgle it is better than just a traitorous Chapter Master but how about adding in the fact that some of the Chaplains and Librarians Loyal to Anlon had used lesser daemons during engagements against Tau and Orks in the Eastern Fringe...
I'm kind of hoping that Kellan turns to Nurgle because of his fear of death so maybe he obtains this daemon weapon in the middle of the extermination and for fear of losing his life succumbs to the whisperings of the Daemon within the artifact - rather than delivering the weapon to the Grey Knights and proving his loyalty and being killed anyway.

Thanks Ratius

No, the Gks are not stupid. Space Marines are too valuable to exterminate because of the possability of taint. They will try to salvage the chapter.

Naturally the process is long and convoluted and can result in death for those who pass through it.


Only humans will get executed of hand. They arrn't valuable enough to bother with the checkout process. Space Marines are.

Given the absolute secretive nature of the Grey Knights, would CSM:

a) even be aware they exist? And
b) know where to look for them?

A) Possably

B) Hell no

Even if the existence of Grey Knights is unknown you can always have your warband be one that uses Plague Navigators. Nurgle often has his followers just jump into the warp to be tossed wherever he wants them to go, maybe the navigator has gained enough attention to be tossed towards Grey Knights? It would allow the warband to prove their devotion if they landed and started after the chapter that is most directly opposed to the chaos gods

I think the possibility is there, but the approach is sorta wrong.

I doubt there is some central chaos "command center" where they coordinate their war with the IoM "tactially" and go for the opponents "biggest asset".

Chaos is fractious and uncivil. They wage war among themselves as much, if not more than with the loyalists. Their "hierarchies" and command structures shift and change constantly as the next promising, "aspiring" champion, lord or daemon prince carves his niche and reputation, only to be eventually end up as the trophy of the one after him or being turned into a Spawn.

That said, there could well be a mean CSM Lord/Champion/Daemon Prince who feels he has a special axe to grind with the Grey Knights (a direction your Emerald Knight concept seems to go as well) and carries a personal vendetta of some sort against them (and recruits CSM and other meanies to his cause through insanity, bravery and the promise of eternal chaos glory). He might even come with knowledge or insight on how to seek out and find GKs. So as an army concept, I feel it could well work.

One plot hole is that the Emerald Knight are unlikely to even know the Grey Knights exist as only the loyalist of marine chapters are entrusted with that knowledge and the rest are mind scrubbed if they find out.

Ratius wrote:

What does Dakka think of the idea of a Chaos Space Marine Warband that hunts and kills Grey Knights. Isn't that a tactical part of war - to remove the enemies most powerful units and most potent assets?

Perhaps a subsect of the TS - one of their upper echelons have decided to to do it? They would certainly have the ability, despite the GKs prowess (or perhaps not?).

Slowly but surely, Chaos is begin to grow.

They would also be really good at baiting the Knights out. Takes a simple demon insurgency of epic proportions to get them to pop out, then you could probably take steps to track or mess with them from there.

Or drop site massacre them, unknown that an enemy had even found them out. Of course one would wonder how long they could get away with this without the knights getting wise.

That could be difficult to do.

The GKs have a way of forseeing when and where daemonic incursions wll occur. They can even arrive in orbit before they happen and so prevent it.

I'm certain that if the csm aren't fully aware of the grey knights existence, then there are plenty of daemons who are. I reckon it wouldn't be a big step for one of the more well known daemons to bait an aspiring chaos lord or champion into trying to kill some grey knights to prove himself worthy of his ascent to daemonhood. There might not be too many CSMs with a grudge against the grey knights but there's been enough banished daemons to be vengeful about it. Maybe there's an angle there you could use? Said daemons would also be better able to guide said marines at tempting the GKs to come after them and thus present a target.

So, feasably there could be a demon locked in a weapon that caused the original conflict between the Grey Knights and Emerald Knights and then this deamon gives them "tips" on how to lure the Grey Knights into battle and the Emerald Knights agree because of their long-standing grudge??

I like that

If that was an actual army would dakka expect it to contain some deamons??

Maybe some.

Summoned Daemons are actually not as bad as people make them out to be. Being one of the few units that can assault out of a Deep Strike is pretty nice.